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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 03-23-2020, 03:21 AM
G. Freeman G. Freeman is offline
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Default M-25 Back From The Factory. New Things Noticed.

Hello S&W Experts,

A couple of months ago I sent my new M-25 to the factory for a couple of issues:
1. Gouge marks in the bore
2. Shooting 4" high at 50 ft using 255 gr LSWC behing 7.5 & 8 grs of Unique.

Gun arrived yesterday. Barrel and front sight unchanged. Letter stated those gouge marks are "normal." I personally beg to differ because it may make it more difficult for me to sell in the future. Entire revolver was refinished.

In looking at the revo, I noticed a couple of items the custom shop "gifted" me. These were not present when I sent it in.

1st pic shows the window in the frame for the cylinder stop; it now has a downward indentation or dished shape appearance; this used to be flat. I don't really know what was done. Is this normal? Was this done on purpose? Does this cause any structural weakness in supporting the cylinder stop?


2nd pic shows the area of the receiver below the (barrel extension) forcing cone. It now has a peened area and it was not there before. Repair tag shows the yoke was repaired.

The yoke is able to move freely up into the closed position. It appears when the yoke was being installed it may have been pushed up hard to cause the peening.

Will this cause any future issues in supporting the crane/yoke?


I would appreciate your input. Most of my experience are with Ruger revolvers and I've never seen these things happen with my Rugers.

Thanks in advance!
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Old 03-23-2020, 09:11 AM
scooter123 scooter123 is offline
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My first question concerns the frame area at the cylinder stop. That dishing is something that would be quite easy to overlook when looking over a new or potential purchase. Are you 100% certain that was NOT there when you shipped the revolver back to S&W? I ask only because I don't see any need for a technician to be doing anything in this area and suspect this may have been present when you purchased the revolver. Not that it matters, IMO that defect is unacceptable.

That dent on the frame window under the barrel is also unacceptable and noticeable. Unfortunately that is not a defect that can be repaired easily because the only means of "repair" is to remove material with a file, probably by hand. The end result of this "repair" will be a frame window about 1/32 inch wider and I doubt that S&W still has gunsmiths who have been trained and fully qualified on Flat Filing properly. Yeah, Flat Filing is a Skill and something that takes a lot of practice and "coaching" to do properly. Most people who attempt to Flat File a chunk of steel end up with a domed piece of steel. What I am telling you here is that if S&W repairs this defect DO NOT lay a straight edge on that surface when you get it back. A little bit of doming won't have any effect on function and if it looks fine it is functionally fine.

As for your revolver shooting high with 255 grain bullets, that is simple the result of Physics and the only solution for that is adjusting the rear sight lower or installing a taller front sight. What is happening is that a heavier bullet moves SLOWER than a lighter bullet when operating at the SAAMI specified pressure. That slower bullet takes LONGER to transit the barrel and that results in an extended recoil impulse with the barrel pointed higher when the bullet exits the barrel. So, you have two options to correct for this. One is to change your sights, the other is to change your Sight Picture.

I will also note that changing how you control recoil can also effect the relationship between the sights and the point of impact. I once did an experiment with my 6 1/2 inch model 610 to see how much effect recoil management has on the POI and it's a lot, actually more that one would expect. Note, I keep a J Point reflex sight on the 610 so it's an excellent long range revolver. Firing off a sandbag rest at 25 yards I shot one group at the bottom of the target while controlling the recoil. Then I shot another group while allowing the muzzle to rise freely. That resulting group was 12 inches higher. As a result I can now say with absolute certainty that how you manage the Recoil of a handgun WILL effect where that handgun hits. So, if you shoot enough rounds downrange to start to fatigue your wrists and hands your accuracy will degrade and it's not due to "fouling" it is due to your just getting tired.

Last edited by scooter123; 03-23-2020 at 09:15 AM.
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Old 03-23-2020, 09:35 AM
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First, sorry about this latest bad turn.

I have no idea how the cylinder stop window in the frame could have been damaged. Depending how deep it actually is, I don't think this will actually have a negative affect on proper function. I would be concerned about the stress this impact created at the square corners on each side of the window....as the sides of the window, particularly the "sideplate" or right side, are under the most stress during usage. Also, frame material is quite thin at that particular location. This "dished" area is definately not normal. Can you push the stop ball down and take another photo of the stop window? I can't see the back edge of the opening. Thanks.

The mark on the bottom of the barrel lug is also hard to expain. Perhaps a mark from being forced into, or forceably removed from a frame jig or fixture of some kind. Looks like the damage may have been there prior to refinishing. Is there a corresponding mark or spot on the yoke?? If the frame was forceably inserted into a fixture, perhaps this damage is related to the damage in the stop window??

I'm also wondering why the gun was refinished?? Any evidence of test firing at the factory after the repair??
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Last edited by armorer951; 03-23-2020 at 08:10 PM.
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Old 03-23-2020, 10:22 PM
G. Freeman G. Freeman is offline
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Here are a few more pics:






There was no issue with the revolver's finish when it was sent. So I believe they refinished it likely after someone bubba'd the gun. The dished area must have been worked on or over-polished.

Quite disappointed with S&W. Functionally it may be fine, but the resale value will be truly affected, especially to potential buyers who know what they are looking for.

During a time like ours (pandemic), just trying to focus on the things in my life that are still good...

I really appreciate your input.
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Old 03-23-2020, 10:34 PM
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I feel your pain. I recently sent a new revolver back to S&W due to a defect that I saw after having transferred the gun at my FFL. Too bad I didn't inspect it more carefully beforehand. It came back to me with some dings in it. I asked them to fix the dings, and they sent it back to me in worse condition than they received it. I will not make this mistake again, hopefully. I would rather pay a skilled gunsmith than use the S&W lifetime warranty. I ended up fixing it myself and did a much better job of it than the 'gunsmiths' at the factory.
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Old 03-23-2020, 10:41 PM
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Take a look at this as well. I could be wrong, but...

UPDATE: I'm going to back away from this because the corresponding surface on my M629-6 looks similar.
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Last edited by andyo5; 03-24-2020 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 03-23-2020, 11:22 PM
ameridaddy ameridaddy is offline
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I'm sorry for your bad experience, and have no easy answer except contact S&W and ask what they plan to do for you. Remote possibility - Did you check the serial number - are you positive it's the same gun you sent them and not a mixup?

I had a similar experience with Smith and my 25-5, which I bought new and had been an unfired safe queen until a few years ago. Mine had .456-.458 cylinder throats and patterned like a shotgun , also ~6" high at 25 yds.

I contacted S&W, and Smith told me that since it was made by "old" S&W, there was no warranty or new cylinders available. A couple years later, cylinders became available, so I sent it back, requested cylinder replacement and a master action job on my dime. When I sent it off, it had less than 50 rounds through it, was immaculately clean, and had a nice crisp trigger.

About three weeks later, I got it back with new style bluing on the cylinder which was more black than blue and did not match the old bluing, the sharp edge of the side plate was bent back in two places where it met the frame, one side plate screw was bubba'ed with a gouge from the slipped screwdriver in the side plate, there is a mark similar to yours where the yoke bypasses the frame when closing, there were fine sandpaper-like scratches all over the frame face opposite the side plate, and the trigger was no longer crisp, but had substantial creep, and the gun was filthy with finger prints and powder residue all over it.

I cleaned the gun and removed the sideplate to see what they did, and was shocked to see that all the case color was buffed off both sides of the hammer. Apparently their slicking of the action consisted of jamming the hammer into a buffing wheel, which no doubt altered the sear notch and induced the trigger creep. There was no indication of the usual careful stoning of the rebound slide or certain small contact surfaces on the hammer and trigger.
I'll never send Smith another gun of mine.

Last edited by ameridaddy; 03-23-2020 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 03-24-2020, 07:34 PM
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Looks like the front end of the stop window is also damaged. It should be squared off, but the top edge has what appears to be a rounded profile.
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Old 03-24-2020, 07:52 PM
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Disappointing to say the least.
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