Model 60 Special Order-What does it mean?

[BobBasil]

Hi and thanks for the help.

I have a Model 60 .38sp stainless. RB stock
The barrel measures 1.875" the box label lists 2 for the barrel.
The SN is AFV0787
Product code 102302
It lists a special order 4356. What does this usually mean? Does it increase the value?

Thanks

[nicky4968]

Welcome to the forum.
You’ve come to the right place.
Many knowledgeable people will answer your questions.

[colt_saa]

Originally Posted by BobBasil

Hi and thanks for the help.

I have a Model 60 .38sp stainless. RB stock
The barrel measures 1.875" the box label lists 2 for the barrel.
The SN is AFV0787
Product code 102302
It lists a special order 4356. What does this usually mean? Does it increase the value?

Thanks

Welcome to the Forum

99% of the time, the "SPEC ORD" number is the date of manufacture of the firearm in Julian format.

Yours says that this Model 60 was manufactured on December 21st of 1984

[murphydog]

In this era the Special Order code usually indicated the date the gun was packed and ready to ship. The first number is the last digit of the year, in this case 1984, and 356 indicates the day of that year, December 21 (it was a leap year). Enjoy!

[BobBasil]

Good to know. Thanks

[two-bit cowboy]

Welcome aboard from ol' Wyo.

S&W has called its short barrels 2" since the first ones. The I and J frames have measured one and seven-eighths inches all along.

Hope this helps.

[BobBasil]

Yes Thanks

[Targets Guy]

Nice thread. It taught me something.

Welcome to the board.

[BobBasil]

Thanks to all members for really fast and informative responses.
Best
Harold

[lkabug]

Welcome from the Commonwealth of Virginia.
Consider joining the Smith and Wesson Collectors. Info on this site.

[ken158]

Originally Posted by two-bit cowboy

Welcome aboard from ol' Wyo.

S&W has called its short barrels 2" since the first ones. The I and J frames have measured one and seven-eighths inches all along.

Hope this helps.

And when the 2” barrel is fitted, usually some metal is taken off for proper indexing, etc for appearance and operation which affects finished length. Collectors and perfectionists worry much more about such issues then the fitters that make the gun to function properly.

[Club Gun Fan]

Originally Posted by colt_saa

Welcome to the Forum



Yours says that this Model 60 was manufactured on December 21st of 1984

It was not manufactured on December 21st of 1984. It shipped dec 21 1984. Once again it's not possible to tell when a gun was manufactured, unless it is given a serial number when it comes out of the forge.

[colt_saa]

Originally Posted by colt_saa

Welcome to the Forum

99% of the time, the "SPEC ORD" number is the date of manufacture of the firearm in Julian format.

Yours says that this Model 60 was manufactured on December 21st of 1984

Originally Posted by Club Gun Fan

It was not manufactured on December 21st of 1984. It shipped dec 21 1984. Once again it's not possible to tell when a gun was manufactured, unless it is given a serial number when it comes out of the forge.

Don,
Your whole assumption here is that the moment they come out of the forge is what legally constitutes manufacture of a firearm. Due to the HUGE 80% industry that has sprung up in recent decades we all know that is a false assumption in a legal sense

These are not yet legally firearms

Shipping dates are not (and logistically could not be) printed on the end label and placed on the box as the firearms are pulled for shipping.

This is not possible when you have a company that is currently shipping approximately 4000 firearms per day (based on an average of the last several years of BATFE records)

[rct269]

This has been---still is interesting. We have some folks approaching when it was made from a historical point of view---firearms industry historical---others from an entirely practical point of view (When did it become ready to shoot?)---still others from a legal or regulatory viewpoint. Which one's correct? I think the answer comes from whoever came up with that bit about "whatever floats your boat".

I had a couple of single shots a while back----3rd Models. I'd had one of them going on 20 years---#4807. Then I stumbled upon #4826. Now I had #'s 208 and 209 in my Ruger collection, but that was an exercise in killing time because I couldn't find the S&W's I wanted; and Ruger won't tell you anything much worthwhile about their guns anyway.

So now this was getting more interesting---do you suppose these guns were made on the same day? I supposed they could have been. Then the letter on 4826 arrived---said it was shipped June 24, 1911. 4807 was shipped on November 11, 1915. (The auction house hype had said 4807 was part of the factory collection. Maybe that's where it was for four and a half years----assuming they really were made on the same day.)

Now I'd been brought up pretty much the same as all the rest of you-----to understand we can learn when a gun was shipped, but not when it was made. Well, what the hell----it's worth another try.

Here are the results: 4807 was part of the "production run" of 31 units "completed" on May 9, 1911----"and entered into the shipping vault on that date"-----------and "There is no indication that this handgun was ever part of the Smith & Wesson Office Display." Okay, well so much for that. 4826 "was in the production run of this model completed on June 21, 1911"----so no, they weren't made on the same day----but pretty close---close enough for "horseshoes and hand grenades", right?!!

Ralph Tremaine

[colt_saa]

Originally Posted by rct269

Now I'd been brought up pretty much the same as all the rest of you-----to understand we can learn when a gun was shipped, but not when it was made. Well, what the hell----it's worth another try.

Ralph Tremaine

That is absolutely 100% correct thinking for anything that was manufactured prior to Smith & Wesson getting their computer system

In the 1980s a technology face-lift gave Smith & Wesson the means to store more information than they used to do with old hand written logs and typewritten lists method of record keeping.

It was the switch to the computer printed end label that provided a place for the "SPEC ORD" number to reside

As collectors we often forget that Smith & Wesson is not in the business of making historical/collectible items. Otherwise they would have lots more facts stored in their information

Smith & Wesson makes tools and whether we collectors like it or not, Smith & Wesson complies with the rules and laws surrounding the tools they produce and that includes a real meaning to when something is considered manufactured or not