|
|
03-31-2020, 03:56 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tall Timber of N.W.Orygun
Posts: 873
Likes: 44
Liked 1,706 Times in 465 Posts
|
|
Seeking info on 16-4
Do you think these are the original grips on this one? What is the proper name/term for these grips? Is the 4" barrel right for this or an oddity? Was the 16-4 ever offered in a stainless version? Any info on age? Value?
Thanks for looking and sharing any info on this one.
A little bit more info here. http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ant...#post140720272
__________________
"Tastes just like chicken"
|
The Following 8 Users Like Post:
|
|
03-31-2020, 04:00 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 11,907
Likes: 10,039
Liked 10,047 Times in 4,758 Posts
|
|
Your gun looks correct to me. The stocks are square-butt “combat” stocks. The 4-inch barrel was one of three lengths offered - 4, 6, and 8-3/8”. The gun was never produced in a stainless version. Nice gun. I have no idea what it’s worth in today’s market.
Last edited by M29since14; 03-31-2020 at 04:01 PM.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
03-31-2020, 04:07 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Edmond, OK
Posts: 5,215
Likes: 1,133
Liked 6,605 Times in 2,458 Posts
|
|
I'm guessing the gun would sell for about $850-$950 and I like the combat grips and they were a fairly common accessory but the Model 16 was about the only Smith I can think of that came with them from the factory.
|
03-31-2020, 04:07 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 7,827
Likes: 9,401
Liked 14,751 Times in 5,026 Posts
|
|
That revolver is entirely correct as shown, and square butt “combats” just as M29 said. The 16-4 was only offered with a full barrel underlug. About 8,000 were made. The 4-inch typically seems to be the most sought after. The 6-inch was likely the most common.
There was a time (seems like not long ago) where S&W gave up trying to sell these as the demand was about nil. They dumped a slew of them to wholesalers and these could be bought NIB for peanuts.
As we have seen many times... they are hugely desired these days. A “shooter grade” 16-4 with obvious wear and no box and missing the combat stocks still sells for $750-$850 all day long. Medium grade with wear and dings but with original combats and you are talking $900-$1000.
NIB or extremely high grade and with all original goodies and collectors trade them at $1400 and beyond.
Nope, never made in stainless or nickel. They were made from around 1989 to 1992, if I remember correctly.
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
03-31-2020, 04:58 PM
|
|
Moderator
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 26,785
Likes: 938
Liked 18,879 Times in 9,241 Posts
|
|
Cool gun. The serial number prefix puts it from the summer of 1989.
__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220
|
03-31-2020, 07:23 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: West Central IL
Posts: 22,758
Likes: 18,437
Liked 22,313 Times in 8,245 Posts
|
|
Yes, those are the correct stocks. Probably dates to 88 or 89.
Looks just like my 6".
__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244
|
The Following 11 Users Like Post:
|
bgrafsr, bigmoose, CH4, deanodog, jack the toad, Joe Kent, krsmith58, lscocoa, S&WIowegan, weatherby, wx7b |
03-31-2020, 07:48 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: the free state of Arizona
Posts: 1,016
Likes: 2,402
Liked 1,795 Times in 625 Posts
|
|
Sevens is right on the mark as usual.
After watching for several months, I just paid $1300 for a beauty and thought I got a deal. It did come with a 100 used brass and bullets, the box, and the paperwork.
If you are .32 junky, this is THE gun. It saddens me to see how many have bored to 327fm; when I think the 32 H&Rmag is actually finding more fans who shoot both calibers.
Gunbroker says last one sold was $1575. They rarely come up for auction. Like the S&W 631, their price has gone up big time in the last year. I don't have a clue where the $750 estimate came from. That would be a steal !!!
and the combat finger groove grips will grow on you over time.
Prescut
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
03-31-2020, 10:17 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Central VA
Posts: 8,598
Likes: 1,551
Liked 9,322 Times in 4,182 Posts
|
|
Sure you can get it in Stainless, you just have to build it yourself. Here is my Model 616, the gun S&W should have built but never did. Note the grips present when this photo was made.
Froggie
|
The Following 17 Users Like Post:
|
CH4, D Brown, deanodog, Farmer17, GerSan69, huthike, jack the toad, Jebus35745, krsmith58, lawandorder, lscocoa, moosedog, Nathan510, needsmostuff, oddshooter, reccpd101, Super Dave |
03-31-2020, 10:50 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Roanoke, Virginia
Posts: 974
Likes: 126
Liked 1,331 Times in 540 Posts
|
|
Sevens got all the details correct for your revolver. The last M16-4 I've seen for sale a month ago was an excellent condition 6" with an asking price of $1,300 which I thought was a reasonable price.
Green Frog: I'll be tossing and turning all night with that picture of you 616 project driving me insane.
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-01-2020, 04:10 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Mojave Desert
Posts: 10,254
Likes: 17,901
Liked 23,938 Times in 6,786 Posts
|
|
That there is a beautiful and very desirable piece, especially the 4”. Anything under $1200 without the box and goodies would be a good deal.
__________________
213th FBINA
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-01-2020, 06:50 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 783
Likes: 1,112
Liked 1,087 Times in 426 Posts
|
|
Very nice outcome, Froggie
__________________
SWCA 3417 HF 642 NRA-TC
|
04-01-2020, 11:46 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: The Flint Hills - Kansas
Posts: 1,029
Likes: 2,349
Liked 3,314 Times in 678 Posts
|
|
My 16-4, serial #BEH2395, shipped in December, 1989. I would guess your friend's gun was shipped about that time also, +/- a month or so. He got a nice one!
__________________
SWCA 3297 SWHF 583
|
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-02-2020, 10:00 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Southwestern Ohio
Posts: 2,337
Likes: 209
Liked 1,195 Times in 457 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Frog
Sure you can get it in Stainless, you just have to build it yourself. Here is my Model 616, the gun S&W should have built but never did. Note the grips present when this photo was made.
Froggie
|
I can testify, that Froggie's revolver is a MOST desirable piece of ordnance! After seeing it in person, handling it, and shooting it, it is a DANDY!
The entire project from start to finish was/is just flat out compelling!
FWIW
Dale53
Last edited by Dale53; 04-02-2020 at 10:02 AM.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-04-2020, 07:41 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,251
Likes: 1,171
Liked 2,450 Times in 712 Posts
|
|
Those are the correct grips. The revolver is easily a $1,400 gun.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
04-04-2020, 09:08 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4,896
Likes: 3,295
Liked 4,962 Times in 1,950 Posts
|
|
Some may scoff at reaming it to .327 Fed but the K frame is such a good fit for the cartridge, so unless you go the “Project 616” route, what’s a guy to do? Top is converted. Bottom remains stock.
Pic is repost.
ETA:
In the effort to answer your question on value, both of mine are complete packages (box, papers, etc). The top (converted) has more signs of being shot; turn line, etc. but I wouldn't sell either for $1400 and have far less than that in them.
Last edited by jack the toad; 04-04-2020 at 09:22 PM.
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-04-2020, 09:42 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 1,529
Likes: 790
Liked 678 Times in 436 Posts
|
|
Neat revolvers, seems like unless your a collector reaming one to .327 is not a bad idea unless it messes up the accuracy.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
04-04-2020, 09:50 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4,896
Likes: 3,295
Liked 4,962 Times in 1,950 Posts
|
|
No guarantees, but with mine, it shoots everything (.32, .32 Long, .32 mag and .327 mag) exceptionally well except .32 ACP.
That's why mine are not for sale.
Last edited by jack the toad; 04-04-2020 at 09:51 PM.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
04-05-2020, 12:04 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: the free state of Arizona
Posts: 1,016
Likes: 2,402
Liked 1,795 Times in 625 Posts
|
|
Jack,
I think I'm your scoffer.
In all candor:
I haven't had my 16-4 long enough to quit fondling it. So I'm in the honeymoon phase and am just so in love she seems perfect. I'm betting you recognize that stage yourself.
However, like you, I do dearly appreciate the fun I've had with my 327fm's. Maybe in a month or two I will feel different. Most of the guys on here that I respect have already reamed to 327fm so I know I would be in good company.
Every man gets to pick his own path; Is this a great country or what !!
Prescut
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-05-2020, 12:18 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 916
Likes: 1,409
Liked 1,083 Times in 361 Posts
|
|
I frequently watch these on GB. If one wants one in the condition and configuration of the OP's the starting number is north of $1200. I may have missed a few but I haven't seen one hammer for less than a grand in quite some time. Those grips are bringing $250-300.
Last edited by MrG5122; 04-05-2020 at 12:22 PM.
|
04-05-2020, 01:22 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4,896
Likes: 3,295
Liked 4,962 Times in 1,950 Posts
|
|
It is most definitely a great country oddshooter. And to each their own.
I guess if more a collector, don't convert but if wanting a gun that's a hoot to shoot, you might try it (with Federal AE 100 gr JSP) but sounds like youre familiar with the fed mag.
That's why I have both an untouched LNIB and an excellent plus converted shooter...
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
04-06-2020, 11:38 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Independence, OH, USA
Posts: 6,911
Likes: 28,791
Liked 7,158 Times in 2,579 Posts
|
|
The 16-4’s are definitely cool guns. The 8” & 4” are less common then the 6” version. Had my 4” reamed to .327 by Andy Horvath and the value may hold because someone would love a S&W K frame in .327. Smith didn’t make one so you have to make it your self or make a stainless one like Froggie did. I don’t really want a Ruger.
Andy has my next project, hope to get it back soon. It’s a 3” Full Lug K frame in .327 with a round butt. Stay tuned, Larry
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-25-2020, 05:42 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Mojave Desert
Posts: 10,254
Likes: 17,901
Liked 23,938 Times in 6,786 Posts
|
|
So, the only way anyone would know if the cylinder had been reamed to 327 is to insert a 327 cartridge in the cylinder - to an untrained eye the modification would not be apparent?
__________________
213th FBINA
|
04-25-2020, 05:57 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,346
Likes: 15,021
Liked 10,811 Times in 2,004 Posts
|
|
Sure would like to have a second 4 inch for a back up. Think I will drift over to the Territories and run the traps. Might get lucky and find one of those 750 ones.
__________________
LEX ET ORDO
|
04-25-2020, 05:03 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,699
Likes: 3,449
Liked 11,367 Times in 1,323 Posts
|
|
Very nice gun, congratulations
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmer17
I'm guessing the gun would sell for about $850-$950 and I like the combat grips and they were a fairly common accessory but the Model 16 was about the only Smith I can think of that came with them from the factory.
|
I believe the 17-6 in . 22 lr also came with combats
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
04-26-2020, 09:05 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Rochester, NH USA
Posts: 4,001
Likes: 1,620
Liked 4,900 Times in 1,701 Posts
|
|
They are fun guns...
Traded into one last year and shot it a few times. Was about to have the chamber lengthened to .327 but since since it was LNIB and I already had a 6" Model 53/16 decided to sell it and the other .32 H&Rs I had to finance a Freedom Arms 97 with a 4.25" barrel.
It sold for $1550 in one day... There is one on GB now for $1700. Another is on the 24HRCF for $1400 but no box...
Really sad there are so few and have become so valuable...
Bob
|
04-26-2020, 09:24 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Mojave Desert
Posts: 10,254
Likes: 17,901
Liked 23,938 Times in 6,786 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMan
It sold for $1550 in one day... There is one on GB now for $1700. Another is on the 24HRCF for $1400 but no box...
Really sad there are so few and have become so valuable...
Bob
|
The buyer was me. Looking forward to playing with it.
__________________
213th FBINA
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
04-26-2020, 01:51 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4,896
Likes: 3,295
Liked 4,962 Times in 1,950 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by CH4
So, the only way anyone would know if the cylinder had been reamed to 327 is to insert a 327 cartridge in the cylinder - to an untrained eye the modification would not be apparent?
|
Yes, both mine (converted & non-converted) look the same.
|
04-26-2020, 01:53 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4,896
Likes: 3,295
Liked 4,962 Times in 1,950 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLASSIC12
I believe the 17-6 in . 22 lr also came with combats
|
As did the 617 ND.
|
04-26-2020, 01:59 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Ohio valley
Posts: 1,992
Likes: 3,534
Liked 4,157 Times in 1,390 Posts
|
|
.32’s
Just one more to look at
With a Ruger .32 both
Are a joy to shoot.
|
05-25-2020, 12:52 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Mojave Desert
Posts: 10,254
Likes: 17,901
Liked 23,938 Times in 6,786 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLASSIC12
Very nice gun, congratulations
I believe the 17-6 in . 22 lr also came with combats
|
You are correct
Other than the bore size, the 17-6 and 16-4 are identical and came with square butt combat stocks
__________________
213th FBINA
|
05-25-2020, 07:13 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 7,827
Likes: 9,401
Liked 14,751 Times in 5,026 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by CH4
You are correct
Other than the bore size, the 17-6 and 16-4 are identical and came with square butt combat stocks
|
Not exactly correct...
More than half the 17-6’s have the combat stocks and full lug barrel, but the first “likely more than one third” of the 17-6 looked exactly like the 17-5 and 14-most, with the standard ribbed target barrel and goncalo alves target stocks.
My 17-6 is of 1988 vintage, a BBJ-prefix, and it is the earlier, more traditional style.
|
05-25-2020, 08:45 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Mojave Desert
Posts: 10,254
Likes: 17,901
Liked 23,938 Times in 6,786 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens
Not exactly correct...
More than half the 17-6’s have the combat stocks and full lug barrel, but the first “likely more than one third” of the 17-6 looked exactly like the 17-5 and 14-most, with the standard ribbed target barrel and goncalo alves target stocks.
My 17-6 is of 1988 vintage, a BBJ-prefix, and it is the earlier, more traditional style.
|
You’re explanation is correct, but I was merely comparing the aesthetics of the full lug 17-6 with the 16-4.
__________________
213th FBINA
|
05-25-2020, 11:26 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 1,974
Likes: 395
Liked 828 Times in 274 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jack the toad
As did the 617 ND.
|
Yes, it did.
|
05-25-2020, 11:31 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 1,974
Likes: 395
Liked 828 Times in 274 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jebus35745
Andy has my next project, hope to get it back soon. It’s a 3” Full Lug K frame in .327 with a round butt. Stay tuned, Larry
|
I've thought about doing the exact same thing. To a .32 junkie (like me) that might be the perfect carry gun...
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
05-25-2020, 11:34 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 3,158
Likes: 21,164
Liked 7,109 Times in 1,990 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawandorder
Sure would like to have a second 4 inch for a back up. Think I will drift over to the Territories and run the traps. Might get lucky and find one of those 750 ones.
|
It doesn't get a lot of mention; but the Model 14-5 also came with Square Butt Combat Stocks.
Model 14-5, shipped 5/22/1992
[IMG] [/IMG]
[IMG] [/IMG]
I also had a six shot Model 617 at one time; never recorded the Engineering Change, but it also came from the factory with Square Butt Combat Stocks.
And, of course, my Model 16-4 came from the factory with the Square Butt Combats.
Model 16-4, shipped 10/26/1989
[IMG] [/IMG]
[IMG] [/IMG]
And since the discussion is centered around the .32 cartridge, my Model 631 came from the factory with Round Butt Combat Stocks.
Model 631, shipped 9/1/1990
[IMG] [/IMG]
[IMG] [/IMG]
__________________
Dave Brown
SWCA #3279
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
05-26-2020, 01:55 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4,896
Likes: 3,295
Liked 4,962 Times in 1,950 Posts
|
|
No combats but one of the few models made in .327 mag.
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|