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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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  #51  
Old 04-26-2020, 08:06 PM
Mike, SC Hunter Mike, SC Hunter is offline
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Originally Posted by skwchock View Post
I guess the thrill of semi-autos is waning. I have noticed in ALL the gun magazines that they are writing about the "benefits/advantages" of a revolver, esp. the .38 Special. The latest mags are praising the penetration/stopping power of the .38 Special..its ease of carry, its "point & shoot" with moderate recoil. And its popularity with the "older,mature" citizens who may have difficulty "racking the slide" on a semi-auto. I find it interesting. I have always loved the feel, look and effectiveness of my .38 Special and am glad that others are now rediscovering this, too.
They gotta write "sumpthin" to sell those rags........
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Old 09-12-2020, 08:46 PM
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I guess I am one of those "old guys" that like the look, feel of an all metal revolver. To me, they are works of art. They look great. The precision of the workmanship makes them stand out from all the semi-autos that are mass produced. The disadvantage is the weight, it is really hard to CCW with a 2 lb weight handing on your belt -- and it is hard to conceal as they "print" through your clothing.
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Old 09-12-2020, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by skwchock View Post
I guess I am one of those "old guys" that like the look, feel of an all metal revolver. To me, they are works of art. They look great. The precision of the workmanship makes them stand out from all the semi-autos that are mass produced. The disadvantage is the weight, it is really hard to CCW with a 2 lb weight handing on your belt -- and it is hard to conceal as they "print" through your clothing.
I suppose that's an individual thing. I do believe most people can probably carry and conceal a larger gun than they think they can, though it typically does require a bit more committment and forethought regarding clothing and carry gear.

I used to routinely carry a 3" 65 in an IWB holster under an untucked shirt for 12+ hours/day, even in hot, muggy summer weather. It was well-concealed and comfortable, but I used a good quality holster and a good, double-layer gun belt to support it all.

Of course, not everybody is willing and/or able to do so, and that's all right. That's why J-frames were invented.
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Old 09-12-2020, 09:06 PM
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I cut my shooting teeth on semi autos. Now, I donít look forward to shooting them like I do my revolvers. Thereís a place for both for me and my family, but Iím carrying a round gun more and more (j-frame or k-frame). Iím actually looking for a S&W 640 right now😂 As far as training, I 100% believe that shooting a double action revolver improves my accuracy and ability with my semi autos. Just my two pennies... on
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Old 09-12-2020, 11:51 PM
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First rule of a gunfight is "have a gun". ANY gun! In today's times all guns are flying off the shelves. If you want one, you have to get what's available. Even if it is a revolver. Then, try to find ammo!!!! I love revolvers too! But in today's climate, give me a 9mm, subcompact, higher capacity. Any comeback we may be experiencing is probably older shooters who are buying just because they can.
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Old 09-12-2020, 11:52 PM
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Perhaps now is a good time to trade my Sig P365XL and my Hi Power for revolvers. One auto for two revolvers!!!!
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Old 09-12-2020, 11:56 PM
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I have used revolvers for well over 60 years. I carried a BHP backed up by a Model 36 for well over 40 years. Before that I carried a 3.5 inch S&W 357 5 screw, (wish I had never traded it). The latter was great but a bit bulky and heavy especially since I always had to wear a suit. The BHP was lighter, flat, and held more shots and was adequate for anything I would need since any need I ever had was totally very close range. I have always preferred revolvers but the BHP fit the niche perfectly as long as it was backed up by my trusty 36. Today I am retired and a mere 8 months from 80 years old. I daily pocket carry a 649-2 and when I go to the range I will occasionally take along my Model 28 4 inch along with my much favored model 17-1. As long as I live, I will keep the BHP and my old Ruger standard 22lr, but I rarely fire them nowadays.
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Old 09-13-2020, 12:19 AM
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I can't speak of any renewed interest in revolvers by new shooters, but I can say as a newer person fond of the short barrel big bores, that they keep going up in price and I find myself paying top of the market to get the more desirable examples. The cost of admission is high and it keeps rising every year.
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Old 09-13-2020, 12:40 AM
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Comeback?

When did they ever go away? Seriously, they've remained in production to this very day by just about every major firearms manufacturer that ever produced Revolvers to begin with, folks have continued to carry them all the while, and they still have a strong niche in the role of Wilderness Defense because they simply offer maximum power in the smallest possible package.

Sure, Semiautomatic Pistols are generally more popular, but I honestly think that has more to do with the significantly lower cost of polymer-framed pistols as well as the lower cost of ammunition when it comes to pistol cartridges. Because the most popular carry firearms tend to be single-stack subcompact pistols which only have marginally higher ammo capacity. If there were most inexpensive, ultra lightweight polymer framed Revolvers available like the Ruger LCR and Taurus 605 Poly, then I bet that Revolvers would be more popular among average shooters due to their greater ease of operation and greater power. (5-6 rounds of .38 Special or .357 Magnum vs 7-8 rounds of .380 ACP or 9mm Luger.)
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Old 09-13-2020, 03:09 AM
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Default It's possible......

That a lot of people who never had guns before are going for the simplicity of a revolver since defense is on their mind rather than different types of shooting.
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Old 09-13-2020, 03:13 AM
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Default After my last model 10 purchase......

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Originally Posted by RobertJ. View Post
I grew up shooting both, and will continue to shoot (and carry) both until I leave. However...

My revolvers outnumber my autos by about 4 to 1.

I walked into my LGS one day, and the gunsmith who was working there at the time (a young guy) said, "Hey, it's the revolver guy!"
I have a 1:1 ratio between the two. Four each.

Oh, and when I walk into my LGS they giggle, poke each other in the ribs and say, "Hey, it's the top dollar guy!"

A friend asked me one time, "What does is mean when you buy a car and when you are leaving all the salesmen are standing in a circle laughing and yours says, "Lunch is on me today"?
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Old 09-13-2020, 04:02 AM
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Would it be fair to say that the "J" Frame , for the CCW market, be leading this comeback for revolvers?
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Old 09-13-2020, 09:44 AM
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I like both semi autoís and revolvers, but I have 10 Smith revolvers and one Colt 1933 ď1911Ē.
Enjoy them all
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Old 09-13-2020, 09:51 AM
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I have both and IMO both have their place..........I grew up shooting revolvers.....years shooting and qualifying double action only with a 3" 65.

Back in the day when I first read about the "New York reload"..... and having just watched/then read "Serpico" I thought the perfect NY combo would be a 2 1/2" model 19 and a Browning HP....... the .357 19 being primary with the Browning as back up. Figuring if I'd need more than 6..... I'd need/want a lot more than another 5 or 6

Today if the SHTF I'd go with a 3" K-frame with 6 rounds of 125 gr .357 hollow points (my old Model 65 or more likely my 3" 66) as my primary backed up with a Beretta 92; either a Compact at 15+1 or more likely my Wilson Combat Centurion with 18+1 (mec-gar mags)

My choice of the Beretta over a S&W is 30 plus years of shooting one and my SHTF Personal/home defense long gun, for my "Burb of the Burgh", is a tricked out (light,sling, 2 spare 20 rd mags on the stock and red dot) Beretta CX-4 9mm carbine set up for Beretta mags...... plus two more 20rd mags in a double mag pouch all packed into a padded "guitar" case

Maybe a bit over the top.... but as I watch the Sunday morning news, now is the time to plan not as the SHTF.... with the hope you may never need to execute that plan.
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Old 09-13-2020, 10:04 AM
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I carried a revolver for the first 20 yrs of my career and had to use it more than once so I know it works & have confidence in that platform. In retirement I carry a 340PD loaded w/+P and a speed strip in my off pocket.
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Old 09-13-2020, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by skwchock View Post
I guess the thrill of semi-autos is waning. I have noticed in ALL the gun magazines that they are writing about the "benefits/advantages" of a revolver, esp. the .38 Special. The latest mags are praising the penetration/stopping power of the .38 Special..its ease of carry, its "point & shoot" with moderate recoil. And its popularity with the "older,mature" citizens who may have difficulty "racking the slide" on a semi-auto. I find it interesting. I have always loved the feel, look and effectiveness of my .38 Special and am glad that others are now rediscovering this, too.
Might have something to do with the editor walking into the room and announcing "OK it's time to switch from semi autos to revolvers for the rest of the year and Joe, I need that article on the perfect gun for rabid feral dogs for the October issue-let's go with the new Kimber this time-they just gave me a K6 so make it about that one"
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Old 09-13-2020, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ContinentalOp View Post
Of course, not everybody is willing and/or able to do so, and that's all right. That's why J-frames were invented.
My EDC were J-frames for 12 years and now I carry a 45 Shield M2.0 and really like it.

I only have two semi-autos, an M&P 45 and the Shield and I enjoy both of them.

Not sure I can say that I enjoy shooting my revolvers over the semi or the semi over the revolver.
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Old 09-13-2020, 10:42 AM
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LOL there are still 'Gun Rags"......... haven't even looked for one since I joined here and a couple of other Forums!!!!!

Ues to buy 2 or 3 a month back in the day.......... but in the 21st Century you guys and gals are a much better source of good reliable information.
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Old 09-13-2020, 11:15 AM
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Default If I carried a revolver....

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Originally Posted by Moo Moo View Post
Would it be fair to say that the "J" Frame , for the CCW market, be leading this comeback for revolvers?
... my model 36 or model 38 would be my choice.
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Old 09-13-2020, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgriffin View Post
I'm thinking if Biden wins in November and the Liberals have their way by banning all semi autos, the revolvers will be the hottest thing out there!
No, all autos won't be banned but a new
magazine capacity law could be passed
although no action was taken durng the
Obama years.

But I believe Smith and Ruger were looking
to the future when they started making
7 and 8 shot revolvers. With 7 or 8 shots
and the power that can be packed into a
revolver (over a normal sized auto) cartridge,
the revolver in many ways becomes equal or
superior to the auto.
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Old 09-13-2020, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayFramer View Post
So the gun rags are running out of ideas to talk about?

Reinventing the wheel(gun) I suppose.
And a lot of those so called writers may get a free revolver or two
to write a favorable article. So they hype whatever pays the
most.
Like said above the wheel guns never left me.
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Old 09-13-2020, 01:10 PM
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Default Here's the real story

Hollywood prompted the semi-auto revolution.

The directors got tired of "us" joking about some "cowboy"
getting 10 or 11 shots out of a six-shooter! They tried to fix that
with Clint Eastwood telling the bad guys he couldn't remember
how many rounds he'd fired ("feeling lucky, punk?").

Today most folks watching Keanu Reeves (as John Wick) or
Bruce Willis (as John McClane) don't know a Beretta from a
Browning, and they have no clue how many rounds are in the
magazine.

My grandmother started me at age seven with her I-frame
Model 31. Now I focus on the .38 Chiefs Specials from 1950
through 2000.

"Semis" are those long lines of tractor-trailer rigs climbing Elk
Mountain on I-80 in southern Wyoming.
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Old 09-13-2020, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockquarry View Post
I doubt revolver shooting is increasing to a degree that could be termed anywhere close to a "comeback". Most younger shooters have no experience with revolvers and aren't likely to develop a yearning for them.
I base this on the frequent weekday trips I've been making to a private gun club range for the last ten years or so. I don't recall the last time I saw a revolver shooter. From cursory glances, I would guess that most shooters use striker polymer-frame guns and shoot up very close, from three yards to fifteen. Very seldom will one of these persons shoot on the twenty-five yard range. Maybe the revolver shooters come out on weekends when I'm not there.

As for gun articles on the .38 Special, there are (like Jack O'Connor said) only about a dozen topics one can write about when it comes to guns. Everything else is pretty much a spinoff variation of one of the twelve.

Just when someone thinks there cannot possibly be room for another 9mm handgun, a new one appears and people read about it and buy it even if it offers virtually nothing (or even less) over similar guns that have long been in production. Sort of like the 1200 (that figure is probably no longer accurate) commercial hot sauces and salsas that are made in Texas, there has always been room for one more - maybe, until now.

Nothing wrong with the .38 Special; I'd much rather read about it than another 9mm gun or ammo creation.
The articles, I think, are attempting to promote revolver shooting amongst younger and newer shooters.

For the older heads, we do not need to be convinced.

There is a whole generation of shooters now that have no real experience with revolvers.

They think the Glock has a great trigger.

It's those folks that the article is attempting to sell revolvers to.
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Old 09-13-2020, 01:55 PM
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There is a whole generation of shooters now that have no real experience with revolvers.
In Ed Lovette's The Snubby Revolver, he relates an interesting anecdote. He was observing a class of DEA recruits during their academy training. They had done a simulated warrant raid. One of the recruits had recovered a DA revolver. During the debrief, the instructor told the recruit to make safe. None of the recruits knew how to operate the revolver. They didn't know how to open the cylinder. The instructor then taught them all how to do it.
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Old 09-13-2020, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
... a lot of people who never had guns before are going for the simplicity of a revolver since defense is on their mind rather than different types of shooting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moo Moo View Post
Would it be fair to say that the "J" Frame , for the CCW market, be leading this comeback for revolvers?
That's what this first-time gun owner did two months ago. Got a 642-2 CT Airweight.

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Old 09-13-2020, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malph View Post
... There is a whole generation of shooters now that have no real experience with revolvers.
They think the Glock has a great trigger.
It's those folks that the article is attempting to sell revolvers to.
I think those folks will be disappointed in a revolver trigger.
I hated the heavy trigger of my S&W 642-2 and thanks to this forum, I immediately had a trigger spring kit installed.
Duty/Carry Spring Kit for J-Frame Revolvers
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Old 09-13-2020, 03:29 PM
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I think those folks will be disappointed in a revolver trigger.
I hated the heavy trigger of my S&W 642-2 and thanks to this forum, I immediately had a trigger spring kit installed.
Duty/Carry Spring Kit for J-Frame Revolvers
It's been my observation that most of the people who complain about DA triggers, revolver or semi-auto, are people accustomed to either 1911s or Glocks. Not always, but most of the time.

Of course, it's different if a gun's trigger actually is heavier than it should be, i.e. out-of-spec.
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Old 09-13-2020, 08:14 PM
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So itís auto pistols vs revolvers in some cases?

Magnum revolvers first, s&w n frames, RedHawks gets my onions frying.

Pistols itís 1911a1, cz metal handguns next.

Plastic guns, a no no, never interested in them, Iím going to hell plastic melts.
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Old 09-13-2020, 08:19 PM
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Plastic guns, a no no, never interested in them, Iím going to hell plastic melts.
I thought they weren't allowed in New Jersey...

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Old 09-13-2020, 08:24 PM
rockquarry rockquarry is online now
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I suppose I've had at least a hundred revolvers in the last fifty years, almost all of which were double-action Colts or S&Ws. I can't recall one that had an unsatisfactory trigger.
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Old 09-13-2020, 09:18 PM
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On duty, I always carried metal pistols: German Sig 220, Cz Rami, and S&W 642. ( all 3 at the same time)

Reliability first, my accuracy with it, and it's stopping power.


Revolvers are life savers. One can depend on one.

I have lots of plastic autos. Those are nice too: the Glock remains in the car: and gets most abuse.

In my area, the most revolvers are seen in Pawn Shops. I browse them often. Saw an unfired Python 6 inch couple of days ago: $2,400.
It is the heartbreaking time of having to sell heirlooms.

Just purchased a S&W 29: times have changed----new carjackers are more savvy: many wear armored vests. Small calibers are of minimal effect, but a crossdraw 44 with a magnum load will crush the chest. ( special circumstances warrant specialized tools)

The Lake Poet, William Wordsworth understood, wisely, that,

"Into our own hands,
Our safety lies"

And a revolver will always have a place

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Old 09-13-2020, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ContinentalOp View Post
I suppose that's an individual thing. I do believe most people can probably carry and conceal a larger gun than they think they can, though it typically does require a bit more committment and forethought regarding clothing and carry gear.

I used to routinely carry a 3" 65 in an IWB holster under an untucked shirt for 12+ hours/day, even in hot, muggy summer weather. It was well-concealed and comfortable, but I used a good quality holster and a good, double-layer gun belt to support it all.

Of course, not everybody is willing and/or able to do so, and that's all right. That's why J-frames were invented.
My 3" 686+ is with me 12+ hrs a day and everywhere I go. With proper wardrobe and belt/holster selection it's easily carried.
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Old 09-14-2020, 11:32 AM
otis24 otis24 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forte Smitten Wesson View Post
Comeback?

When did they ever go away? Seriously, they've remained in production to this very day by just about every major firearms manufacturer that ever produced Revolvers to begin with, folks have continued to carry them all the while, and they still have a strong niche in the role of Wilderness Defense because they simply offer maximum power in the smallest possible package.

Sure, Semiautomatic Pistols are generally more popular, but I honestly think that has more to do with the significantly lower cost of polymer-framed pistols as well as the lower cost of ammunition when it comes to pistol cartridges. Because the most popular carry firearms tend to be single-stack subcompact pistols which only have marginally higher ammo capacity. If there were most inexpensive, ultra lightweight polymer framed Revolvers available like the Ruger LCR and Taurus 605 Poly, then I bet that Revolvers would be more popular among average shooters due to their greater ease of operation and greater power. (5-6 rounds of .38 Special or .357 Magnum vs 7-8 rounds of .380 ACP or 9mm Luger.)

And many people gravitate towards autos because they are thinking primarily self-defense. I love my Hi Power and my Sig, but for back country, you are right. The revolver platform offers more power and can be had in different size platforms. I would want a revolver for back country/woods carry. Right now, my needs are primarily home/self-defense.

When/if finances allow, I will own a revolver or two again!!!!
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Old 09-14-2020, 04:26 PM
anoblefox anoblefox is offline
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I think the current looting/riot situation is attracting many 1st time gun owners to get whatever is available. My longtime belief is that revolvers are the BEST choices for those new to the firearm world. Perhaps this has some influence on the renewed interest in the wheel gun.
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Old 09-15-2020, 12:23 AM
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I've always been a fan of revolvers. But the popularity of 'wheelies' is cyclical, and they seem to come in and out of vogue. Their biggest plus is their reliability, simplicity, and versatility.

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Old 09-15-2020, 01:03 AM
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I carried a revolver most of my career. I also carried a semi-auto back-up most of my career. I like them both but I've always been a better revolver shooter. Until I retired I could still out shoot the vast majority of young guys and their issued semi-autos, even with my failing eyes and unsteady hands. Retired, I carry a semi-auto more as a slim one is just so easy to carry. But I still carry a revolver at times. I guess I'm just not very loyal.

As far as I can tell revolvers are not making a comeback although collectors are driving the prices up. At my last qual I was the only old guy that qualified with a revolver. I qualified with both.
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Old 09-15-2020, 12:33 PM
Mr Wonderful Mr Wonderful is online now
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I like semi autos and revolvers, but I always find myself messing with or just taking out and looking at or playing with my revolvers more.
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Old 09-15-2020, 12:37 PM
Mr Wonderful Mr Wonderful is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogblue View Post
Well when I qualify on the HR 218 course I always take my 4Ē 686. The instructor always asks if I brought that piece of 19th century technology.
I always answer yes and smile.


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Beautiful, and I like that grip better than what comes on it. As soon price get back to normal, that'll be the next revolver I buy.
Thanks for the pic. Seeing it with that grip makes me want one even more.
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Old 09-15-2020, 01:04 PM
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LostintheOzone LostintheOzone is offline
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I'm not sure if revolvers are "coming back". My perception is they never really left. I still see a few at the range (500 members) where I shoot.

I've gone into the polymer realm lately to discover that there are some benefits but I prefer metal for most things. I purchased my first handgun in 65 or 66 which was a revolver. I can't think of a time where I didn't have at least one. I believe there 5 in my safe now.

My observations are revolvers won't ever be as popular as semi autos are now. I say that because I have just about everything and I can't see an advantage over something like a Sig or HK for self defense. I do still carry a revolver occasionally but I think of it as a 3yd knife. I definitely do not plan to get into any gun fights with it. I'll use my HK for that.
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Old 09-15-2020, 01:05 PM
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I've always been a fan of good S&W revolvers, particularly those of a number of years back that were lovingly and finely finished at the factory.

These revolvers WORK. They go BANG when you pull the trigger as reliably as anything mechanical can achieve. Retrieving your expended brass does not involve hunting around in the grass to find it. It can be left loaded indefinitely with no spring fatigue, and will be ready to serve you when you pick it up - no safeties or any other gadgets to worry about.

As a matter of fact my last purchase was a K-frame .38 special. Most people looking at it would probably say it looks like new. It's not new. It's almost exactly my age - made in 1939.

Call me a dinosaur if you will - but I'd consider myself pretty well armed with this one unless I was facing a herd of stampeding elephants...

John

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Old 09-15-2020, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PALADIN85020 View Post

Call me a dinosaur if you will - but I'd consider myself pretty well armed with this one unless I was facing a herd of stampeding elephants...

John


I happen to have two friends in Arizona, Jim Daniels
and Jack Beam, and they've both reported seeing
elephants on Friday and Saturday nights.

So you'd better be careful!
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Old 09-15-2020, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by two-bit cowboy View Post

"Semis" are those long lines of tractor-trailer rigs climbing Elk
Mountain on I-80 in southern Wyoming.
Yeah, we have those in Arizona, too. This lineup of backed up semis was on I-10 between Phoenix and Tucson; the holdup was a whale of a pileup ahead - police, medical choppers, overturned cars, etc. There was nothing I could do about it, and the delay was for several hours until they evacuated the dead and injured and cleared the debris. This lineup stretched for several miles; couldn't see the end of it.

That's Picacho Peak in the background. The only Civil War battle in Arizona was fought near it.

John

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Old 09-15-2020, 02:45 PM
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I own one semi auto keeper, a Hi Power ( not counting 22s ), one Colt NS and three Ruger SAs. the rest all S&W DA revolvers.
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Old 09-15-2020, 03:19 PM
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All of these brand new pocket sized autos that hold a big basket of bullets are cool, but there's nothing like a 5 shot .357 magnum in your pocket ready to do business, and you know it's going to go bang every time.
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Old 09-15-2020, 07:04 PM
eazyrhino eazyrhino is offline
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I've been doing my part since 1984 promoting revolvers everyday when I bought my first S&W model 36. Love 38.spl. Best cal. ever in my opinion. It's served many law enforcement, military and civilians well for over a century. That being said, I've bought my fair share of many different cal. semi-automatics and revolvers over this period of time. Yet I find myself coming full circle back to revolvers and my beloved 38spl.revolvers. S&W only mind you. Snub nose j frame revolvers are my favorite. I've used my mod. 36 for camping, hiking, ccw and have always felt most confident. Full circle Baby Full circle. My current revolvers are as follows two mod.36s a mod.442 no lock mod.40 mod.10-10 2"bbl. mod.586 22 cal 4" bbl. mod.29 4"bbl. Oh yeah did I mention I love blued guns and all where purchased new I've never bought a used gun.
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Old 09-15-2020, 07:47 PM
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As a relatively new shooter, 5 years ago I didn't own a gun, now between me and the wife we have a pretty sizable collection. She likes the semi's because she likes to pop off a bunch of rounds without having to reload, but she still uses the couple of revolvers when the magazines are empty (I load them at home for her). I like the slow fire rate of a revolver and bolt action rifle, I did get a ruger 9mm a few months ago and after finding I can't load the dang magazines without the tool I handed it over to my son and said enjoy. If I can't load it on the fly without tools I don't want to depend on it. If I am going somewhere where the capacity of a semi would be desired I guess the 460V with the black mamba holster and gun belt holding 25 rounds will have to do, if nothing else the first 460 will make everybody deaf so I can run away.
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Old 09-15-2020, 07:52 PM
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The classic S&W revolvers will become increasingly collectible; they are superb examples of 20th Century American craftsmanship.
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Old 09-15-2020, 07:56 PM
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Revolvers..........Always a "turn" for the better.
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Old 09-15-2020, 08:20 PM
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I wonder if more people would like revolvers more if they had a better DA trigger pull?
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Old 09-15-2020, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malph View Post
The articles, I think, are attempting to promote revolver shooting amongst younger and newer shooters.

For the older heads, we do not need to be convinced.

There is a whole generation of shooters now that have no real experience with revolvers.

They think the Glock has a great trigger.

It's those folks that the article is attempting to sell revolvers to.
I must give credit where credit is due. Was shooting my Glock 34 a few weeks back and despite the trigger pull it is a respectably accurate auto pistol.

BUT, right afterwards I switched to my 586-4 and fired the best ever 25 yard group with it. After trying to manage the Glock trigger the Smith was like a trigger that operated on my thought waves!

The next two guns up - a Ruger 22/45 and Smith 617-1 - same thing , best ever 25 yards groups with them!

But I have to also say I am usually the only person at the range ever firing a revolver. Once in a while near hunting season might see someone with a hunting revolver.

But the 7 yard line is the most used pistol distance at the two ranges I belong to and mostly plastic framed autos.
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