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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 05-19-2020, 03:28 PM
boatswainsmate boatswainsmate is offline
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Hello,
I was wondering if any other owners of the John Ross 500 Magnum are having tight throat issues? My throats pin at .499 and my bore is .5014. I sent the firearm back to S&W and they said it's within there specs after firing a full cylinder threw it. I'm wondering if I should have the throats reamed so the bullets aren't undersized going down the barrel. Thanks for any comments and advice. Boats
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Old 05-19-2020, 07:12 PM
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Have not measured mine, but shooting has not suggested I have an issue (with the current 3 I own).

As an aside I typically don't load 500 at the top of the range above 55 KPSI so I have not experienced any ejection issue.
(and don't use my JRs for load development)

I will measure them when i get get back in a couple of weeks. and Post the results in this thread.

Have not had any leading issues either- I use Matt's bullets or Bear Tooths when shooting cast.

be safe
Ruggy
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Old 05-19-2020, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ruggyh View Post
Have not measured mine, but shooting has not suggested I have an issue (with the current 3 I own).

As an aside I typically don't load 500 at the top of the range above 55 KPSI so I have not experienced any ejection issue.
(and don't use my JRs for load development)

I will measure them when i get get back in a couple of weeks. and Post the results in this thread.

Have not had any leading issues either- I use Matt's bullets or Bear Tooths when shooting cast.

be safe
Ruggy
Thanks for the information
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Old 05-19-2020, 07:53 PM
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3 JRs, Ruggy? AWESOME!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruggyh View Post
Have not measured mine, but shooting has not suggested I have an issue (with the current 3 I own).

As an aside I typically don't load 500 at the top of the range above 55 KPSI so I have not experienced any ejection issue.
(and don't use my JRs for load development)

I will measure them when i get get back in a couple of weeks. and Post the results in this thread.

Have not had any leading issues either- I use Matt's bullets or Bear Tooths when shooting cast.

be safe
Ruggy
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Old 05-19-2020, 09:46 PM
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A used JR 500/5" recently sold for $1600 on the GB site.
Too bad the 500s were not .458 diameter bullets as I would be a 500 owner to go with our 458 Win Mag No.1 rifle.
The 460 S&W is .451/.452 and the 460 Weatherby is .458".
This is just much too confusing.

I sent my 45 Convertible Blackhawk to Ruger in '81, trigger spring broke, and the kind old Smith returned it with a tightly grouped Bullseye target.
His one hand Offhand at 50 yds was impressive.
He said it was easy to change and he'd send me the spring but I told him it was shaving lead.... then I said I'm lying.
IIRC I sent him a set of 1911 grips with the Ruger.

Enjoy that 500.
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Old 05-20-2020, 07:00 AM
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I was able to look at my notes last night and was mistaken about not having measured my John Ross throats. The measurements are .4993 to .4995.

be safe
Ruggy
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Old 05-20-2020, 08:50 AM
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I was able to look at my notes last night and was mistaken about not having measured my John Ross throats. The measurements are .4993 to .4995.

be safe
Ruggy
Thanks for the info
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Old 05-20-2020, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by boatswainsmate View Post
Hello,
I was wondering if any other owners of the John Ross 500 Magnum are having tight throat issues? My throats pin at .499 and my bore is .5014. I sent the firearm back to S&W and they said it's within there specs after firing a full cylinder threw it. I'm wondering if I should have the throats reamed so the bullets aren't undersized going down the barrel. Thanks for any comments and advice. Boats
Why do you want to ream the throats? Are you experiencing leading issues? Or is there some other issue that you are trying to solve?

How does the revolver shoot?

I have never measured the throats on any of my 500s, nor have I slugged the barrels. The oldest 500 I have being about 18 years and my JR having resided with me for about 10 years

None of mine have experienced any leading, key-holing or accuracy issues.

If they ever do, then I will look for a problem
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Old 05-20-2020, 10:53 AM
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Curious,
What would be the ideal measurements for throats, bores and forcing cones/angles in both 500 and 460 for lead, jacketed and solid bullets?

Thx OP and all,
RT
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Old 05-20-2020, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by colt_saa View Post
Why do you want to ream the throats? Are you experiencing leading issues? Or is there some other issue that you are trying to solve?

How does the revolver shoot?

I have never measured the throats on any of my 500s, nor have I slugged the barrels. The oldest 500 I have being about 18 years and my JR having resided with me for about 10 years

None of mine have experienced any leading, key-holing or accuracy issues.

If they ever do, then I will look for a problem
I haven't seen any leading yet but accuracy isn't the greatest or it's just me. As a mainly cast bullet shooter I try to size the bullet to the throat which I believe should be bigger than the bore. Thanks. Boats
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Old 05-20-2020, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by boatswainsmate View Post
I haven't seen any leading yet but accuracy isn't the greatest or it's just me. As a mainly cast bullet shooter I try to size the bullet to the throat which I believe should be bigger than the bore. Thanks. Boats
Is .5014 the lands or grove measurement?

I would look at the crown, additionally would have someone else shoot the gun for results comparison.

be safe
Ruggy
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Old 05-20-2020, 01:26 PM
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Is .5014 the lands or grove measurement?

I would look at the crown, additionally would have someone else shoot the gun for results comparison.

be safe
Ruggy
Thanks for the advice
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Old 05-24-2020, 02:20 AM
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What did you load/data?
I've tried to read just about everything on the web, Calguns, CastBoolits etc etc to learn a bit about the X frames in both calibers.
Some slow lead loads ain't spectacular from what I've read.

The only range open will let me shoot 44Mag level loads so hopefully the long 460 will get out this week.

Yellow Jackets have invaded the mounting holes for our hurricane shutters and they ain't from Remingtonville.
Always something to keep me off the range/reloading.

One day, in the Keys, I'll see how the 460 recoil moves my fishing kayak. Will have to ferry it to a remote area first.
Hard Cast to Port?
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Old 05-24-2020, 09:27 AM
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What did you load/data?
I've tried to read just about everything on the web, Calguns, CastBoolits etc etc to learn a bit about the X frames in both calibers.
Some slow lead loads ain't spectacular from what I've read.

The only range open will let me shoot 44Mag level loads so hopefully the long 460 will get out this week.

Yellow Jackets have invaded the mounting holes for our hurricane shutters and they ain't from Remingtonville.
Always something to keep me off the range/reloading.

One day, in the Keys, I'll see how the 460 recoil moves my fishing kayak. Will have to ferry it to a remote area first.
Hard Cast to Port?
I used John Ross's load data and those written by the powder companies.
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Old 05-25-2020, 04:43 PM
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I should have also asked:
What was the accuracy with each of the loads you developed?

I doubt I'll ever get a 500 but it's nice to know.

Gonna load some 460s with TrailBoss up to the bullet's base tonight.
255gr PCs and a few XTPs in various weights.
Promised the Range Boss to keep them easy.
Just want to try the new long barreled 460 mañana and a few other handguns.
Have some Penn 230gr, 300gr and 340gr. PC/premium cast ordered.
Goal is to find a very accurate target load, at 50/100 yds for the 3.5" and 8.375", for demos with our X frame stocks.... without the "never again" factor.
Common with the 458 WinMag snub.. a bit over 16".
Start with 300gr JFP 50-50gr 4198.
Work them up to 70+ gr.
Then a 500gr or so at 2100fps or so load... they never want another.

Thx
RT
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Old 05-25-2020, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imissedagain View Post
Common with the 458 WinMag snub.. a bit over 16".
Start with 300gr JFP 50-50gr 4198.
Work them up to 70+ gr.
Then a 500gr or so at 2100fps or so load... they never want another.

Thx
RT
I really doubt you'll be able to get 2100fps "or so" out of a .458 with a 16" barrel. No data supports that. Accurate Powder shows up to 2192 with a 500gr but that's a 24" barrel. Don
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Old 05-25-2020, 09:37 PM
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My appolgies,
that was before the barrel was cut.
Never Chronied it, didn't own one back around '80, but was going by factory ammo specs with the original barrel.
Think it was 2150 or so.

The Boss at Tamiami would give me free Remington 510 ammo and range time if I helped out whenever anyone, that had never fired a newly bought rifle, needed to learn to shoot.
One of the clerks in the store, with the Remingtons, hit the X at 75ft on his first round. The next 10 never hit the small target. His shoulder was black&blue.

OEM barrel was 24".
Cut it etc for a snub look with some snub revolvers for gun show entertainment.
All the guns were black with black stocks, lacquer or Gaboon ebony.
OEM Stocks were also shortened and Lacquered black.
The end goal was to put a quality 34" slab sided octagon barrel on it, engrave the slab sides, but the only barrel available back then was a Navy Arms.
Shilen, Douglas etc could only supply one that would finish at 30".
Jaeger and a couple of other Smiths said they could accomplish that task.

Had to crown and get the OEM sight back on as two local "smiths?" couldn't accomplish that chore.

Got to like it the way it is but might have a long barrel at some point. Just something for fun and to leave behind.
Old Buffalo rifle look.

Pic of rifle with long rubber butt pad on the short cut down stock and smaller forearm.
As soon as I get grips made for my X frames, and make the rifle stock making fixtures for my Marlin carving machine, the first project is a white laminated stock and long forearm for the No.1H
The Snow Dragon.

Bought that old No.1V for the stocks and when I get it out to 300yds, if its not great, will most likely rebarrel it to 460 S&W Magnum with a barrel length to optimized that round.
Slab sided octagon of course.

Grew up around the great museums in NYC and saw lotsa nice stuff.

Thanks OP!
RT

Ain't no Rama of the Jungle, just enjoy big bores, as we hunt with fishing rods in
South Florida.
Hard to believe but was asked to make grips for someone, like the pic below from '80, made a bunch and they sold quickly at shows.
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Old 05-25-2020, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imissedagain View Post
My appolgies,
that was before the barrel was cut.
Never Chronied it, didn't own one back around '80, but was going by factory ammo specs with the original barrel.
Think it was 2150 or so.

The Boss at Tamiami would give me free Remington 510 ammo and range time if I helped out whenever anyone, that had never fired a newly bought rifle, needed to learn to shoot.
One of the clerks in the store, with the Remingtons, hit the X at 75ft on his first round. The next 10 never hit the small target. His shoulder was black&blue.

Bought that old No.1V for the stocks
I've been shooting a No. 1 in .458 for 42 yrs now. Love the gun, about a 1.25 MOA gun off the bench. Near presentation grade wood, excellent trigger.

These days I shoot more "plinking" loads with Trail Boss and toss in some medium heavy stuff just for grins.

An octagonal barrel would also be elegant on the No. 1 action. Don
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Old 05-26-2020, 09:13 AM
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Smith & Wesson's reply to my issue.

thank you for the inquiry, Unfortunately we cannot provide the specs as to the measurements. It is though, designed in the way you see it, This does not mean you should be using anything other than factory ammunition per what the caliber calls for. Please use a .500 magnum caliber bullet, with 440 as your max grain. We do not recommend you attempt to put an undersized or oversized bullet through the barrel.

We only recommend using SAAMI approved factory ammunition in our firearms. The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI) is an association of the nation's leading manufacturers of firearms, ammunition and components.
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Old 05-26-2020, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by boatswainsmate View Post
Smith & Wesson's reply to my issue.

thank you for the inquiry, Unfortunately we cannot provide the specs as to the measurements. It is though, designed in the way you see it, This does not mean you should be using anything other than factory ammunition per what the caliber calls for. Please use a .500 magnum caliber bullet, with 440 as your max grain. We do not recommend you attempt to put an undersized or oversized bullet through the barrel.

We only recommend using SAAMI approved factory ammunition in our firearms. The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI) is an association of the nation's leading manufacturers of firearms, ammunition and components.
Wimp a***d response from S&W. There's a very limited number of choices for commercial 500 Mag ammo and all of it is stupid expensive, rarely in stock at most gunshops.

If the only thing you could shoot was full house commercial 440gr loads, the pleasure and utility of these guns would be severely limited.

I've never shot a 500 Mag round manufacturerd by a major company in 17 yrs of shooting these guns and I don't intend to start now.

Personally, I don't push SAAMI pressure limits, no need to do so.

Geeze S&W, you KNOW most 500 Mag owners reload, deal with it. Don
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Old 05-26-2020, 10:25 AM
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Is there any manufacturer that gives a different response? Would you, if you were liable for your product’s safety?
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Old 05-26-2020, 10:45 AM
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Is there any manufacturer that gives a different response? Would you, if you were liable for your product’s safety?
If you're referring to my post, yes, a lot of CYA, lawyer driven, necessary due to our nation's "you can sue anyone for anything at anytime" nonsense and judges who are petrified of being reversed on appeal letting any BS lawsuit go forward.

But I knew a guy for quite a few years who had designed guns for the Ruger founder, Willam Ruger. Later for a number of years he headed up Ruger's customer service and other issues at their Prescott, AZ plant.

Of course he knew many people reloaded for their guns just as he did. He would often give a customer a new gun if their's wasn't serviceable as long as they didn't try to lie their way out of it. If they were honest, he often provided a new firearm for customer satisfaction.

S&W too could look at a gun and determine what caused the issue and deal with it on a case by case basis. Don
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Old 05-26-2020, 01:05 PM
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Not picking a fight but singling out a manufacturer for having the exact same policy as every other in their segment is not right. It is where we live. Guarantee Ruger and others would and have publically declared the same policy.
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Old 05-26-2020, 01:59 PM
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Not picking a fight but singling out a manufacturer for having the exact same policy as every other in their segment is not right. It is where we live. Guarantee Ruger and others would and have publically declared the same policy.
Ruger doesn't have any written warranty, that allows them to avoid ambulance chasers to the greatest extent possible. But, they do warranty for the lifetime of the gun as long as you aren't an a** about it.

S&W should recognize the reality of 500 Mag shooters reloading and evaluate repairs on a case by case basis, not a "one size fits all" approach.

Can't blow up a .22LR pistol unless you're terminally stupid, you "might" blow up a 500 Mag with a compressed load of Bullseye. Don
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Old 05-27-2020, 01:09 AM
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Too many kabooms and other damage by reloaders, for a variety of reasons, would be foolish if factories said to have at it.
The OP's 500 needs to be checked/measured and fired by him and some other shooters.

Took my new 460 out for it's first shoot and conditions at the range made it a 6 shot visit for that gun.

Loaded 13.5gr TrailBoss under the Penn 255gr Premium Cast and some XTPs.
Just fired the XTPs for a function check.
Hopefully Markham will open soon and the Chrony will finally get something other than arrows and airguns.
The 458s with old Sierra 300s and Penns Premium Cast 370s.
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Old 05-27-2020, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boatswainsmate View Post
Smith & Wesson's reply to my issue.

thank you for the inquiry, Unfortunately we cannot provide the specs as to the measurements. It is though, designed in the way you see it, This does not mean you should be using anything other than factory ammunition per what the caliber calls for. Please use a .500 magnum caliber bullet, with 440 as your max grain. We do not recommend you attempt to put an undersized or oversized bullet through the barrel.

We only recommend using SAAMI approved factory ammunition in our firearms. The Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI) is an association of the nation's leading manufacturers of firearms, ammunition and components.
Rhetorical question - not directed at you OP,

So, Hornady's 500gr factory ammo is not SAAMI approved?
Any factory ammo >440gr will void warranty?

I understand the manufacturers CYA on reloads....but?
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Old 05-31-2020, 09:31 PM
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Rhetorical question - not directed at you OP,

So, Hornady's 500gr factory ammo is not SAAMI approved?
Any factory ammo >440gr will void warranty?

I understand the manufacturers CYA on reloads....but?
The Hornady 500 meets SAAMI specifications which cover bullet dimensions and pressure specification, not weight.

The twist rate would be of concern to for bullets above 440 grains as that was the design specification for the 500.

When John Ross had his guns built he specified a faster twist rate to accommodate a bullet that would fill the entire cylinder length.

This translates to bullets stability without regard to bullet weight.

The faster twist rate is the of the most important deference between this model all the other 500 S&W produced.
be safe
Ruggy
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