Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Smith & Wesson Revolvers > S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present
o

Notices

S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-22-2020, 06:34 PM
JayFramer JayFramer is offline
Banned
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,596
Likes: 6,989
Liked 9,332 Times in 2,759 Posts
Exclamation Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?

I’ve been in the market for a new 442 No-Lock and a few dealers in my area have actually had them in stock. What is alarming is they all have had a significant amount of yoke gap. I’m talking about this:



I have been under the impression a Smith & Wesson revolver should have a tight gap, such as this:



Is yoke gap just how these guns are made now? Does it hurt anything? I’ve read it’s bad for the action but maybe it doesn’t concern S&W at this point in time?

I just couldn’t bring myself to buy one without consulting the forum first. Thanks all in advance,

-Jay
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-22-2020, 07:09 PM
Protocall_Design Protocall_Design is online now
Vendor
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 6,129
Likes: 53,438
Liked 13,435 Times in 4,240 Posts
Default

If the cylinder closes and functions fine, it's just not machined correctly. It doesn't look good, but is mechanically OK. I think they could do a better job if they really wanted to.
__________________
protocalldesign.com
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #3  
Old 05-22-2020, 07:26 PM
ms ms is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 249
Likes: 21
Liked 165 Times in 80 Posts
Default

How does the first one look without pressing the cylinder? The thumb on the side could be making it look like a problem.
__________________
Mark
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-22-2020, 07:56 PM
JayFramer JayFramer is offline
Banned
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,596
Likes: 6,989
Liked 9,332 Times in 2,759 Posts
Default

Those are example photos only.

But the three 442 I’ve examined locally all have what I have come to consider excess yoke gap. It’s frankly frustrating as I have a SWEET holster and speed strip pouch ready and waiting just SCREAMING to get stuffed with a J.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-22-2020, 09:08 PM
ms ms is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 249
Likes: 21
Liked 165 Times in 80 Posts
Default

If you can close the gap with a gentle squeeze, it's a pretty easy fix, but not something you should need to do on a new gun. If you can't close it with slight pressure, it might not be reasonable to make it cosmetically correct. There's always the chance that closing the gap will hurt the alignment, but I have never encountered this. If I was looking at a used gun with a gap like the first pic, and I could close it with minor pressure, I would buy it if I could get a significant discount. I wouldn't buy a new one like that.
__________________
Mark
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-22-2020, 11:20 PM
ADP3 ADP3 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SC
Posts: 398
Likes: 117
Liked 265 Times in 126 Posts
Default

Pull the trigger, keep it held to the rear, and then check the gap while slightly pressing on the off side of the cylinder. It's highly likely you will only see a very minimal gap, if any. I just checked several new 442's with DMH, DMW, and DML prefixes. None had a gap that I'd concern myself over.

Best Regards,
ADP3
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-23-2020, 12:31 AM
azhobo azhobo is offline
Member
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: AZ desert
Posts: 47
Likes: 106
Liked 87 Times in 21 Posts
Default Re: Yoke gap

Sorry gents, but I just can't help myself on this one, gotta voice my opinion......
It's apparent that our beloved S&W factory has gone the way of everything American. From top management, through the skilled machinist, assembly worker, QA/QC, on down to the lowest paid employee, job dedication, care about product quality, and our general give a snort attitude is in the dumpster. It's who we've become.
Look around you, weed stores have been deemed not only legal, but essential to our existence. Booze shops remained open during our government controlled "lockdown". I like a drink as well as any of you, maybe even more than most, but we've gone from a patriotic, hard working, God fearing society, with high standards, to a society of folks that don't care if they even hold a job, or if they do, offer only the minimum effort to keep it. We live in Mom's spare room until we close in on forty, expect to be fed, clothed, and sheltered on Pop's dollar, and haven't the foggiest idea how the world should work, or where the money tree grows.
So, I have to ask..... wadda ya expect?
I'm gonna finish up my 80th year here real soon, and I wouldn't trade one of my great years living in, working in, and serving, this country, for the chance to be a part of this young society.
My comments are not meant to offend anyone here, or any of your kids/grandkids, it's just how I see it. Now I feel better! (for now)
Regards to all,
Bob
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-23-2020, 12:56 AM
Spg007 Spg007 is offline
Member
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Easton Pa
Posts: 52
Likes: 122
Liked 84 Times in 41 Posts
Default

You say its a new gun, but it reminds me of years ago when people would load the cylinder, spin it and slam it shut they said it could spring the yoke. Thats probably would it would look like also.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-23-2020, 07:25 AM
steelslaver's Avatar
steelslaver steelslaver is offline
US Veteran
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central Montana
Posts: 13,625
Likes: 12,742
Liked 39,091 Times in 9,966 Posts
Default

The only way to actually tell is to use an alignment toll. Though a range rod would give you some information. But to me its not right.

Notice that the gap is uniform width from top to bottom. Normally a yoke that is not all the way home forms a gap that is taperer tight near the pivot and widening as it goes up. Think of a circle with lines radiating from the center. I bet that even if you could press the top home there would be a gap at the bottom.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 05-23-2020, 08:17 AM
slabside2's Avatar
slabside2 slabside2 is offline
Member
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: glen mills pa. USA
Posts: 773
Likes: 914
Liked 574 Times in 235 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by azhobo View Post
Sorry gents, but I just can't help myself on this one, gotta voice my opinion......
It's apparent that our beloved S&W factory has gone the way of everything American. From top management, through the skilled machinist, assembly worker, QA/QC, on down to the lowest paid employee, job dedication, care about product quality, and our general give a snort attitude is in the dumpster. It's who we've become.
Look around you, weed stores have been deemed not only legal, but essential to our existence. Booze shops remained open during our government controlled "lockdown". I like a drink as well as any of you, maybe even more than most, but we've gone from a patriotic, hard working, God fearing society, with high standards, to a society of folks that don't care if they even hold a job, or if they do, offer only the minimum effort to keep it. We live in Mom's spare room until we close in on forty, expect to be fed, clothed, and sheltered on Pop's dollar, and haven't the foggiest idea how the world should work, or where the money tree grows.
So, I have to ask..... wadda ya expect?
I'm gonna finish up my 80th year here real soon, and I wouldn't trade one of my great years living in, working in, and serving, this country, for the chance to be a part of this young society.
My comments are not meant to offend anyone here, or any of your kids/grandkids, it's just how I see it. Now I feel better! (for now)
Regards to all,
Bob
I applaud you Bob. What you said needed to be said. Before someone posts and calls you an old Boomer I’m sure there’s many of us who feel the same way thanks for posting.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-23-2020, 10:06 AM
murphydog's Avatar
murphydog murphydog is offline
Moderator
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 26,784
Likes: 938
Liked 18,877 Times in 9,241 Posts
Default

A few years back the factory eliminated individualized fitting of parts; now they just assemble the guns as the parts appear in the bins. Apparently it is a necessary cost control step, but the fit of parts seen here is a consequence.
__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #12  
Old 05-23-2020, 10:16 AM
mikerjf mikerjf is offline
Member
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 1,857
Likes: 2,232
Liked 2,930 Times in 1,091 Posts
Default

Last time I looked there are more J frames than toilet paper rolls. Find and buy one that's right. Regardless of "tolerances" or other excuses, it will bug you every time you look at it.
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #13  
Old 05-23-2020, 11:33 AM
Pine_Worker's Avatar
Pine_Worker Pine_Worker is offline
Member
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,489
Likes: 2,637
Liked 1,588 Times in 713 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by azhobo View Post
Sorry gents, but I just can't help myself on this one, gotta voice my opinion......
It's apparent that our beloved S&W factory has gone the way of everything American. From top management, through the skilled machinist, assembly worker, QA/QC, on down to the lowest paid employee, job dedication, care about product quality, and our general give a snort attitude is in the dumpster. It's who we've become.
Look around you, weed stores have been deemed not only legal, but essential to our existence. Booze shops remained open during our government controlled "lockdown". I like a drink as well as any of you, maybe even more than most, but we've gone from a patriotic, hard working, God fearing society, with high standards, to a society of folks that don't care if they even hold a job, or if they do, offer only the minimum effort to keep it. We live in Mom's spare room until we close in on forty, expect to be fed, clothed, and sheltered on Pop's dollar, and haven't the foggiest idea how the world should work, or where the money tree grows.
So, I have to ask..... wadda ya expect?
I'm gonna finish up my 80th year here real soon, and I wouldn't trade one of my great years living in, working in, and serving, this country, for the chance to be a part of this young society.
My comments are not meant to offend anyone here, or any of your kids/grandkids, it's just how I see it. Now I feel better! (for now)
Regards to all,
Bob
Hallelujah, brother! Amen!
__________________
Pine_Worker
Ex-LEO, NRA Life
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #14  
Old 05-23-2020, 11:53 AM
JayFramer JayFramer is offline
Banned
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,596
Likes: 6,989
Liked 9,332 Times in 2,759 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikerjf View Post
Last time I looked there are more J frames than toilet paper rolls. Find and buy one that's right. Regardless of "tolerances" or other excuses, it will bug you every time you look at it.
And that’s why it’s so frustrating. I’ve TRIED. All around my local area. Obviously buying online is just too risky sight unseen, and locally, every single one I’ve handled has these big gaps.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #15  
Old 05-23-2020, 12:15 PM
pantannojack's Avatar
pantannojack pantannojack is online now
US Veteran
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: the ready line, N. Idaho
Posts: 1,404
Likes: 918
Liked 1,752 Times in 729 Posts
Default

That sloppy joke gap is the reason I never bought a NIB 696, back when they cost only a few day's non union construction pay in Arizona.
__________________
"Don't Give Up the Ship"
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #16  
Old 05-23-2020, 12:52 PM
gwpercle's Avatar
gwpercle gwpercle is offline
Member
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 6,838
Likes: 7,394
Liked 8,050 Times in 3,652 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayFramer View Post
And that’s why it’s so frustrating. I’ve TRIED. All around my local area. Obviously buying online is just too risky sight unseen, and locally, every single one I’ve handled has these big gaps.
When it comes to buying guns... if you don't inspect them with your own eyeballs , then you just buying a pig in a poke !

If S&W doesn't sell enough guns because of poor quality , fit and finish then they might change their corporate policy , which is shipping out everything , good , bad or indifferent , and letting the customer deal with the problems .

Do you know who's QC has improved greatly in the past 10 years .... Taurus . I couldn't find what I wanted in a S&W so I started looking at Taurus ... they looked and felt good ...So bought one .... not one complaint ... Happy Camper !
S&W ..Pay Attention !
__________________
Certified Cajun
NRA Member
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #17  
Old 05-23-2020, 01:09 PM
JayFramer JayFramer is offline
Banned
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,596
Likes: 6,989
Liked 9,332 Times in 2,759 Posts
Default

I’ll be honest, guys, and PLEASE DO NOT HATE ME FOR THIS... but I ended up buying a Springfield Hellcat 9mm after having no luck finding a J-frame that would pass muster.

It’s pretty sad. I had no idea Smith & Wesson stopped fitting parts. I bought a 642 in about 2013 and it did not have a gap like any of these have had, and was a quality gun. But yeah, I sold it! :’(
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #18  
Old 05-23-2020, 01:15 PM
mikerjf mikerjf is offline
Member
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 1,857
Likes: 2,232
Liked 2,930 Times in 1,091 Posts
Default

Maybe this issue is why those dealers have them in stock?

You should be legal to buy something anywhere in your state, and even out of state you can have it shipped to an FFL in your state. Dealers, private parties on Armslist, gun shows that bring out lots of small dealers that may not even have storefronts... (well yeah, the plannedemic is restricting some of that now) but like I said, try looking for a certain K frame. Looking for a J frame should be ducks in a barrel.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #19  
Old 05-23-2020, 02:42 PM
JayFramer JayFramer is offline
Banned
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,596
Likes: 6,989
Liked 9,332 Times in 2,759 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikerjf View Post
Maybe this issue is why those dealers have them in stock?

You should be legal to buy something anywhere in your state, and even out of state you can have it shipped to an FFL in your state. Dealers, private parties on Armslist, gun shows that bring out lots of small dealers that may not even have storefronts... (well yeah, the plannedemic is restricting some of that now) but like I said, try looking for a certain K frame. Looking for a J frame should be ducks in a barrel.
Getting them to inspect the guns for crane gap (even if they know what that is) might be difficult...
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #20  
Old 05-27-2020, 03:40 AM
JayFramer JayFramer is offline
Banned
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,596
Likes: 6,989
Liked 9,332 Times in 2,759 Posts
Default

It seems every single one I’ve found made in the past few years has these gaps.

Just sad.

How much more are we going to accept?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 05-27-2020, 09:59 AM
ImprovedModel56Fan ImprovedModel56Fan is offline
US Veteran
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MA
Posts: 7,330
Likes: 7,502
Liked 5,556 Times in 2,547 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikerjf View Post
Last time I looked there are more J frames than toilet paper rolls. Find and buy one that's right. Regardless of "tolerances" or other excuses, it will bug you every time you look at it.
Many, many years ago, when the Model 63 first came out, I had to do that. Don't remember whether I passed up three or four, or even half a dozen. Sorry to hear that they are back at it again (or still?).
__________________
Formerly Model520Fan
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #22  
Old 05-27-2020, 02:34 PM
slabside2's Avatar
slabside2 slabside2 is offline
Member
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: glen mills pa. USA
Posts: 773
Likes: 914
Liked 574 Times in 235 Posts
Default

Buying a new revolver online is iffy at best. I know it gets tempting when you see the one you want online at a great price but without getting to really give it the once over in my opinion it’s not worth it. I’ve been disappointed too many times.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #23  
Old 05-27-2020, 03:03 PM
JayFramer JayFramer is offline
Banned
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,596
Likes: 6,989
Liked 9,332 Times in 2,759 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slabside2 View Post
Buying a new revolver online is iffy at best. I know it gets tempting when you see the one you want online at a great price but without getting to really give it the once over in my opinion it’s not worth it. I’ve been disappointed too many times.
True. Me too. Revolvers are not like semi-autos in this regard. No such thing as “air gap” or “end shake” or “crane gap” with new autos vs new revolvers. If it’s from a reputable brand and especially if it’s (god forbid) a modern polymer gun, odds are it’s going to be put together properly. Revolvers are just much more complex in this regard.
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #24  
Old 05-28-2020, 07:22 PM
Oldsalt66 Oldsalt66 is offline
Member
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 512
Likes: 757
Liked 836 Times in 302 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by azhobo View Post
Sorry gents, but I just can't help myself on this one, gotta voice my opinion......
It's apparent that our beloved S&W factory has gone the way of everything American. From top management, through the skilled machinist, assembly worker, QA/QC, on down to the lowest paid employee, job dedication, care about product quality, and our general give a snort attitude is in the dumpster. It's who we've become.
Look around you, weed stores have been deemed not only legal, but essential to our existence. Booze shops remained open during our government controlled "lockdown". I like a drink as well as any of you, maybe even more than most, but we've gone from a patriotic, hard working, God fearing society, with high standards, to a society of folks that don't care if they even hold a job, or if they do, offer only the minimum effort to keep it. We live in Mom's spare room until we close in on forty, expect to be fed, clothed, and sheltered on Pop's dollar, and haven't the foggiest idea how the world should work, or where the money tree grows.
So, I have to ask..... wadda ya expect?
I'm gonna finish up my 80th year here real soon, and I wouldn't trade one of my great years living in, working in, and serving, this country, for the chance to be a part of this young society.
My comments are not meant to offend anyone here, or any of your kids/grandkids, it's just how I see it. Now I feel better! (for now)
Regards to all,
Bob
Yup, “ they don’t make them like they used to” has never been more appropriate.

Unfortunately; they also don’t make us like they used to.

Last edited by Oldsalt66; 05-28-2020 at 09:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #25  
Old 05-28-2020, 08:52 PM
benf1 benf1 is offline
Member
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: central NJ
Posts: 43
Likes: 2
Liked 37 Times in 18 Posts
Default

After seeing this thread I just had to go check out my 642 NL. It's not as tight as the second photo, but much tighter than the first one. My GP100 has a little more than hairline gap too. Wish I could be more helpful.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 05-28-2020, 09:44 PM
wproct's Avatar
wproct wproct is offline
Member
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,403
Likes: 1,393
Liked 856 Times in 479 Posts
Default

I just simply cannot buy a gun without handling and inspecting it very carefully, and on a double action Smith & Wesson or Ruger this is a fettish for me. Gotta be a hairline fitting and no play.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #27  
Old 05-29-2020, 08:55 AM
stansdds stansdds is offline
Member
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 8,713
Likes: 19,282
Liked 11,738 Times in 5,351 Posts
Default

My S&W revolvers do not have that bad of a gap. Of course, my youngest S&W revolver was born in the 1990's. Things seem to have changed since then.
__________________
VCDL, GOA, NRA
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-29-2020, 09:23 AM
mod34 mod34 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,527
Likes: 133
Liked 1,609 Times in 518 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by azhobo View Post
Sorry gents, but I just can't help myself on this one, gotta voice my opinion......
It's apparent that our beloved S&W factory has gone the way of everything American. From top management, through the skilled machinist, assembly worker, QA/QC, on down to the lowest paid employee, job dedication, care about product quality, and our general give a snort attitude is in the dumpster. It's who we've become.
Look around you, weed stores have been deemed not only legal, but essential to our existence. Booze shops remained open during our government controlled "lockdown". I like a drink as well as any of you, maybe even more than most, but we've gone from a patriotic, hard working, God fearing society, with high standards, to a society of folks that don't care if they even hold a job, or if they do, offer only the minimum effort to keep it. We live in Mom's spare room until we close in on forty, expect to be fed, clothed, and sheltered on Pop's dollar, and haven't the foggiest idea how the world should work, or where the money tree grows.
So, I have to ask..... wadda ya expect?
I'm gonna finish up my 80th year here real soon, and I wouldn't trade one of my great years living in, working in, and serving, this country, for the chance to be a part of this young society.
My comments are not meant to offend anyone here, or any of your kids/grandkids, it's just how I see it. Now I feel better! (for now)
Regards to all,
Bob
I'm with 'ya Bob!! I was shocked to read some of the posts on this one that found this gap "acceptable". Personally, I find it incomprehensible and totally UNacceptable!
__________________
"You're messin' up my Zen"
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #29  
Old 05-29-2020, 12:30 PM
andyo5's Avatar
andyo5 andyo5 is offline
Member
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
Posts: 2,370
Likes: 497
Liked 943 Times in 518 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayFramer View Post
And that’s why it’s so frustrating. I’ve TRIED. All around my local area. Obviously buying online is just too risky sight unseen, and locally, every single one I’ve handled has these big gaps.
You can buy online with confidence...IF you remember to inspect it first before accepting transfer from your FFL. Bud's and Grabagun both accept firearms back if rejected by the buyer for functional or cosmetic issues.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #30  
Old 05-29-2020, 01:09 PM
andyo5's Avatar
andyo5 andyo5 is offline
Member
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
Posts: 2,370
Likes: 497
Liked 943 Times in 518 Posts
Default

I just went on Gunbroker to examine as many M442s as I could find that showed a view of 'the gap'. All the ones I saw (even no-dash versions) had some amount of gap, although none were as bad as your first example nor any as good as your second one.
I recently purchased an L frame and an N frame, both new, online. Neither one showed a significant gap, although both had other issues that had them back at the factory for correction.
I think that S&W have probably loosened some tolerances to cut costs, and those loosened tolerances permit visible gaps like the one you are discussing. They have had several bouts of varying quality over the years. Recall the Bangor Punta era.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #31  
Old 05-29-2020, 01:26 PM
JayFramer JayFramer is offline
Banned
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,596
Likes: 6,989
Liked 9,332 Times in 2,759 Posts
Default

Thanks, gang.

I’m calling off my search for a J-frame. I’ve decided to carry a soulless, ugly plastic pea shooter: the Springfield Hellcat.

At least it is built properly.

Smith & Wesson, if you’re reading this forum (I doubt it), STEP IT UP or expect to lose more sales. PEOPLE ARE NOTICING.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #32  
Old 05-29-2020, 02:56 PM
ajgunner's Avatar
ajgunner ajgunner is offline
Member
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tall Timber of N.W.Orygun
Posts: 873
Likes: 44
Liked 1,706 Times in 465 Posts
Default

Made me check a pair I had close by. Both 442, one silver and one black. Neither have a gap similar to what you have pictured. Both are very tight, more like a crack than an actual joining if parts.
__________________
"Tastes just like chicken"
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #33  
Old 05-29-2020, 04:17 PM
andyo5's Avatar
andyo5 andyo5 is offline
Member
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
Posts: 2,370
Likes: 497
Liked 943 Times in 518 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayFramer View Post

I’m calling off my search for a J-frame. I’ve decided to carry a soulless, ugly plastic pea shooter: the Springfield Hellcat.
I carried an airweight J frame for several years. They are so easy to carry. But not so easy to shoot. For me, it was strictly a deep cover belly gun. At seven yards, I would be able to put 38 special rounds on a man sized target. Past that and I'd worry about hitting bystanders and missing my assailant. Plus, only 5 rounds. And for me, .357 ammo was definately off the table in an airweight J frame.
You may be better served by one of the mini nines like your Hellcat. But if you really feel a need to carry a small, lightweight revolver; Ruger makes two versions and I think that Taurus may also make some.

Last edited by andyo5; 05-29-2020 at 05:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #34  
Old 05-29-2020, 06:13 PM
GeoJelly GeoJelly is online now
Member
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NOVA
Posts: 1,381
Likes: 5,581
Liked 1,378 Times in 578 Posts
Default

I have given up on getting upset about the yoke gaps on recent S&W's. As long as they are even-ish, like the one on my 640 below, I just ignore it. I thought someone mentioned above - maybe they deleted it - that the gap serves a practical purpose in that a grain of unburnt powder won't (or shouldn't) interfere with cylinder closing completely. I've never had that happen but I suppose it has some foundation in truth. I just carried my beater 637 again this morning - it has a gap very similar to the 640. The B-C alignment looks perfect, per my old guy's vision, even with the gap. I've been worried about encountering a coyote or worse during my pre-dawn walks and the 637 is great peace of mind!

Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #35  
Old 05-29-2020, 09:33 PM
JohnRippert's Avatar
JohnRippert JohnRippert is online now
Member
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Meadows Place, Texas
Posts: 5,781
Likes: 24,898
Liked 16,283 Times in 4,141 Posts
Default

Here is my 442 from a couple years ago. Has the gap, and also has wear marks on the crane portion of the frame from section of the ejector rod just in front of the cylinder face. I do not think I even paid $300 for this one brand new at a gunshow. It is only for carrying when I walk the dogs so it does not bother me that much. It is sad that these are examples of present day S&W product. It is also why I buy older S&W revolvers almost exclusively. If this 442 had the lock I would not have bought it.











Last edited by JohnRippert; 05-29-2020 at 09:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #36  
Old 05-29-2020, 10:08 PM
andyo5's Avatar
andyo5 andyo5 is offline
Member
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
Posts: 2,370
Likes: 497
Liked 943 Times in 518 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRippert View Post
Here is my 442 from a couple years ago. Has the gap, and also has wear marks on the crane portion of the frame from section of the ejector rod just in front of the cylinder face.
Your second photo seems to show an interference problem between the crane and the frame.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 05-30-2020, 03:29 PM
JohnRippert's Avatar
JohnRippert JohnRippert is online now
Member
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Meadows Place, Texas
Posts: 5,781
Likes: 24,898
Liked 16,283 Times in 4,141 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyo5 View Post
Your second photo seems to show an interference problem between the crane and the frame.


Yup, you can see where it is rubbing. It will rub until the clearance is good and then I will clean it up and apply a bit of white lithium grease. No biggee, other than it is a shame things have reached this point in S&W.





Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #38  
Old 05-30-2020, 04:14 PM
andyo5's Avatar
andyo5 andyo5 is offline
Member
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
Posts: 2,370
Likes: 497
Liked 943 Times in 518 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRippert View Post
Yup, you can see where it is rubbing. It will rub until the clearance is good and then I will clean it up and apply a bit of white lithium grease. No biggee, other than it is a shame things have reached this point in S&W.
What I am getting at, is I wonder whether the interference is the cause of 'the gap'.
Are your primer hits centered?
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 06-02-2020, 06:12 PM
wetdog1911 wetdog1911 is offline
Member
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames? Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 681
Likes: 7,902
Liked 924 Times in 416 Posts
Default

Have you considered the frame material?

I have 7 J frames, 2 are airweights, the other 5 are all steel.

The 2 Airweights (A M442-1 and a M43C), both have a slight, but even gap and seem tight enough with no play evident.

The all steel versions (2, M49s, 2, M34-1s and one M60), have a gap so tight you need a good light just to notice it.

Perhaps just different tolerances for the aluminum frames vs the steel frames?

I'm going to keep the M43C in .22 lr, but the M442-1 will be hitting the road. Recoil is just a bit too stout for the 'arthur' in my hands. The all steel J's are at least tolerable to shoot.

Rob
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #40  
Old 06-02-2020, 06:23 PM
andyo5's Avatar
andyo5 andyo5 is offline
Member
Yoke Gap in New J-Frames?  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
Posts: 2,370
Likes: 497
Liked 943 Times in 518 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wetdog1911 View Post

Perhaps just different tolerances for the aluminum frames vs the steel frames?

I'm going to keep the M43C in .22 lr, but the M442-1 will be hitting the road. Recoil is just a bit too stout for the 'arthur' in my hands. The all steel J's are at least tolerable to shoot.
Rob
Aluminum and steel have different thermal expansion rates. You may be onto something there, Rob.
I totally agree about the recoil issue with airweights. Problem is, the all steel versions are too heavy for pocket carry. And if you are going to waist carry, you might as well carry something something heavier and with a longer barrel. I'd pocket carry a Model 60 if it weighed 17 to 18 ounces.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Needed: Model 64-8 yoke with V cut for yoke screw PPC WEST COAST WANTED to Buy 0 11-11-2017 02:57 PM
S&W M1917 45ACP / 45AR - Yoke Stop & Yoke Spring Missing LRS1951 S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 2 07-10-2017 02:20 PM
Are mainsprings different for early K frames than post war K frames? Alvin 50 S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 1 11-04-2016 05:03 PM
Which are more durable 357s - k frames or modern J frames Cal44 S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 24 02-24-2016 12:01 PM
Why do some N frames have round grip frames? Revolver-time S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 11 08-20-2013 10:30 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:34 PM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)