So I finally got to go out and shoot my new to me 357PD that I bought from another forum member and about 30 rounds in it blew apart. I was shooting reloads through it when it happened. 210 SWC with 19.5 Gr. H110 and WLP primmers. I am sending it back to Smith today to see if they will repair or replace it. Just wanted to share and see if there are others that have experienced the same problem.

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Odd way to come apart. No squib followed by real round? Maybe fired out of lock up. Where is the primer strike on round that caused it to go kapowy? Only things I can think of that could cause this other than metal failure. To hot a load blows the cylinder up.

But, WOW

There was probably a hidden internal defect in the metal of the frame in that area, making it weaker than normal. If that was the case, it has been found.

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protocalldesign.com

Agree. Seems that most of the hot loads blow the top strap and cylinder apart....

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Todd

"I was shooting reloads through it when it happened. 210 SWC with 19.5 Gr. H110 and WLP"

Where did you find that load data? Is that lead? Pretty heavy bullet for 357 mag

SW is not going to replace it using "reloads"

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Still Running Against the Wind

Its a .41 Magnum.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

The Model 57/357/657 family of revolvers are chambered for the 41 Magnum cartridge

That is a starting load for this weight projectile in this cartridge

While that revolver damage does not look like an overloaded cartridge issue, being a hand load does give Smith & Wesson the opportunity to VOID the warranty

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"Acta non verba"

I sent the brass casings that were in it, back to Smith with the gun.

Pleasee let us know what happens.

Way to often people come here with something like this, people here are willing and ready to help and offer knowledge, but then we never hear back about the out come.

congratulation on escaping injury, I would think Smith should be providing you with both a new revolver and a letter of apology.

Bummer... I suspect S&W will take care of you.

I can see that the frame cracked at the bottom where the barrel threads in. That’s the thin spot and where that type of failure typically occurs. S&W blames it on over torquing at assembly, but I’m not so sure that's the cause. “Scandium” aluminum alloy is very hard and has different expansion and contraction rates compared to steel.

The same thing happened to my PC 625-10 while shooting and I’ve seen well over a dozen similar failures on alloy frame guns (two in person, the rest on the forum). Even new in box guns have been found cracked. I always open the cylinder and inspect that area when purchasing an alloy frame revolver.

I caught the crack on mine before the frame completely failed. I noticed difficulty opening the cylinder, made a quick inspection and was heartbroken. Chances of being injured from this type of failure are extremely slim. The bullet is trying to drive the barrel forward and in a worse case scenario, it does!



I wouldn’t mention that you were shooting reloads when communicating with S&W.

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"I also cook."

Actually, depending on the manual, it might be/is below the starting point for some 210gr Jacketed bullets. Cast bullets typically run a bit below jacketed bullets of the same weight. Cast bullets can also deform badly with excessive pressures.

It may have been a SEE, (secondary Explosion Effect). It's one of the down sides to H110/W296 when charges are reduced. I had a similar experience with cast bullets in a .357. Fortunately, the Ruger Blackhawk was not damaged, but I had to drive the empties out of the cylinder with a wooden dowel.

To Late, they asked what ammo I was shooting and I am not going to lie about it.

The brass came right out and showed no signs of over pressure or any problems for that matter. That's one of the reasons I sent it with the gun so Smith could see it.

I wasn’t suggesting that you lie.
With that type of failure, the ammo shouldn’t matter. An overload will bulge or take off the top of the cylinder, not crack the frame under the barrel. I dare say the factory is all too familiar with that type of failure.

FYI - Mine was a limited run PC gun and the factory didn’t have any replacement frames, so they offered me any in-stock Performance Center gun of my choice.

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"I also cook."

As someone else already mentioned, the chamber, in this case, the cylinder is what holds the pressure, if it was an overpressure problem, the cylinder would have given way, not the frame. Manufacture defect for sure.

I hope S&W makes it right. I believe they will.

Rosewood

After seeing the crack in the frame under the forcing cone in the 3rd picture, my first thought was the dreaded "frame crack."

Not to be confused with the "plumbers crack".

Yep my bad, I saw 457 and went with it.


I was half wrong,


It has to be the gun it could not be the reload. Even though it is pretty hard to blow up a gun with a slow powder like H110
But it is all speculation as to why. maybe SW will or will not replace it. They have done it before.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Not a chance of this having been anything like that

That would have caused the cylinder and top-strap to come apart.

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"Acta non verba"

Yep, that was my thought exactly. I'm guessing, though don't know for fact, that most manufacturers aren't going to cover their products under warranty if reloads/hand loads were used.

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"You're messin' up my Zen"

For two years I looked for a 4" 325 PD and finally found one. Fired a couple Moonclips through it the first time out and realized it had the heaviest DA trigger pull I've ever seen on a S&W revolver in 47 years of shooting them. Took it to my gunsmith, who knows his way around a S&W, and he too claimed it was the worst trigger he'd ever seen. He cleaned it up and took 5+ pounds off so it was closer to 10-12 #.

I got it back and headed to the range with a can of full Moonclips. When I ejected the second one (12 rounds) I noticed something under the barrel's forcing cone that looked like a crack. Turned it up-side down to look closer and the frame was cracked length-wise all the way under the barrel threads. (tried to post a picture but it seems I don't have a security tag, what ever that is???)

I called S&W Customer Service. The man on the phone did everything possible to discourage me from sending it back. He said they would look at it to see if they could fix it, but it would cost $60/hr just to examine it. If they could fix it I would have to pay for all parts, plus labor at something like $90/hr. I paid a fair but not cheep price for the gun since it was the first one I'd seen in years. At that rate I could see repairing it easily costing as much as the gun. I'd never get back anything like what I had in it, or more accurately my wife wouldn't when I'm gone.

It sets in the safe. A reminder, at least to me, of S&W's not so wonderful customer service.

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

Dave,

Don’t let them win. Those revolvers supposedly have a lifetime warranty. Call them back and ask for a supervisor. Tell him the previous response you got from CS and tell him the name of the party and the date so they can check their records. If you do not get a proper response, politely ask for this person’s supervisor. Eventually you will get your problem resolved.

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

I am not surprised by Smith and Wesson Customer Service response. I was looking at a used S&W 327 and when I called S&W Customer Service they told me the limited warranty only applies to the original owner so I decided to purchase a new one. The other issue is shooting reloads. S&W takes a very dim view of that type of ammunition. Sorry to say I seriously doubt they will take any action under these circumstances.

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Veteran/NRA Member/S&W 327

Yes, the stated warranty says the original owner. However, I have sent in countless firearms for warranty work and never had them refuse the first one. Never been charged and never had them ask me if I was the original owner. I think the "original owner" is an out in case they need it, but they typically do not enforce it.

I would call back and ask again, you get a different CS rep, you get a different response.

In the case where the frame cracked, I would be adamant about it being a safety issue and someone could get hurt. That usually changes things with businesses that do not want to be sued.

Rosewood

Glad you were not hurt but unfortunately I am not surprised as lightweight S&W revolvers of all calibers have a history of frame cracks and failures since they started making them. Have had five .38 Special Airweight Js and three had frame cracks.

Being a .41 guy, when S&W brought out the 357 PD and later the NG I bought one of each. There were truly the most unpleasant revolvers I have ever shot...other than a 342 with .357s and 329s that is. Even with my standard 8.0 grains of Unique load that runs only 950 fps they were no fun to shoot.

That and the thought of having to replace the flashgap protector on a regular basis just turned me off to the guns and they went down the road.

On the other hand I have a pair of Taurus Titantium Trackers in .41 Magnum, a 4" and 6", and they are great .41 Specials...much more accurate and shootable than the Smiths....

As to the load...in loading H110/296 for several decades, run it flat out or find another powder.

Hopefully Smith will find it was a defective frame and fix it for you.... If I were S&W I would start telling customers they have no more parts and buy the guns back as they are going to be nothing but a liability to the company...

Bob

Hummm save $20.00 on reloaded ammo, Destroy a $1100.00 pistol. Ive seen a M1a that failed due to quality hand loads...I shoot factory ammo only. Go figure.

I am not surprised as lightweight S&W revolvers of all calibers have a history of frame cracks and failures since they started making them. Have had five .38 Special Airweight Js and three had frame cracks.
That is simply not a hard fact sir. Yes 40 years ago some alum frame smith cracked but the past 20+ years Ti/Si and Alum revolvers have had no issues EXCEPT for people who hand load ammo and Over pressurize the weapon.... you know...quality hand loads. Please dont blame the Manufacture for the Customers screw Ups.

One way to look at it....but not all of us can shoot very much when ammo is $1.50 a ROUND. If you can make the same round for $0.35 then in a case of ammo you have paid for the gun should it fail. My belief is that this gun would have gone with factory ammo as quickly as it did with reloads...

...also my friend was shooting his brand new 629 with factory loads when the topstrap was launched into orbit...

Bob

One way to look at it....but not all of us can shoot very much when ammo is $1.50 a ROUND. If you can make the same round for $0.35 then in a case of ammo you have paid for the gun should it fail. My belief is that this gun would have gone with factory ammo as quickly as it did with reloads...

...also my friend was shooting his brand new 629 with factory loads when the topstrap was launched into orbit...

Bob Bob In my 54 Years of shooting I have never seen a pistol blow up with factory ammo. My Mdl 10-5 blew up years ago with a friends reload, and I Blew out a barrel on a .40Cal Mp5 due in part to heat cycling ( Uncle sams weapon). If S&W built all these "Defective" weapons I would think they would be sued into China. Majority of these failures are Home Grown. Factory ammo failures are rare..as in a Metrology Lab and a QA program with multi built in checks. Yep.. time to buy another $1100.00 Pistol so I can save $20.00. To each their own.

I would lean toward a metal or manufacturing defect. Always believed the cylinder bolt notch is the weakest point in the gun as far as containing pressure. S&W should replace or repair this gun at their expense. However, the gun is no longer made. Will a 329 PD frame work? I don't know. Here is my example of what an over pressure round will do.

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Glad to see that the OP wasn't injured when the frame of his 357PD let go.

I can see a validity to the argument about spending $1100 in order to save $20. However, my counter to this, is look at the decades (almost a century) of bullseye shooters putting together match ammo on their Star reloaders, or other machines. When you tend to talk to these "old timers" ( using this phrase since few young shooters are participating in Bullseye) it seems that reloading (if not also casting) it seems as though rolling your own is a necessity when shooting Bullseye.

In my opinion, it seems as though guns start blowing up (when using reloads) when people start pushing for more powerful ammo. It's reminiscent of the day's of Elmer Keith and his experimentation leading to the birth of Magnums.

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Judge control not gun control!

In my opinion, it seems as though guns start blowing up (when using reloads) when people start pushing for more powerful ammo. It's reminiscent of the day's of Elmer Keith and his experimentation leading to the birth of Magnums. EXACTLY SIR. Ive shot Bullseye, I reloaded using quality equipment, lots of reading, several reloading books and ALWAYS TRIPLE CHECKED Loads. It was time intensive but consistent shooting mid range power was what I was looking for. I worked at NOS Indian Head Navy Ordnance MD in the late 1980's, Metrology lab, Learned a thing or 2 about safe handling ammo and its manufacture. I Know of several "Quality Reloader's" at my old club... Beer open...quantity not quality, I dont use other folks reloads and shoot factory these days.
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Don’t judge all reloaders by those examples.

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

From the photos the barrel is canted upward, so with the stress of firing its rear traveled in the path of least resistance - a defect in the thin part of the frame. Whether or not the factory will make good on it seems to depend on whomever you reach at customer service, so keep trying at higher levels if the first answer is "no". Sorry for your troubles.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Having blown up a gun myself, due to a mistake by myself, the factory gladly took my return (they want unsafe guns out of circulation) and sold me a replacement at distributor pricing.
OP's case I'm sure they would find the metallurgy at fault and offer another gun of similar value. Won't be a replacement as alloy frame 41s are discontinued.

I agree, get somebody else to speak with. I had an issue with an expensive ******* fishing reel once Got nowhere with customer service on 2 occasions. Sent a letter to investor relations at parent company. New reel showed up overnight. Somewhere in every company there is somebody that cares. You just might have to work a bit to find them

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Pete
I ain't no fortunate son

A simple search of this forum shows that this is not accurate.

I have seen too many references on this forum and the other one on which I spend a bit of time to the same problem. When used as hard as a defensive weapon may need to be for training and the like, there are enough failures to make one cautious. Since I have little interest in most lightweight platforms due to the unpleasantness of shooting them, all this does is confirm that I don't want one.

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NHI, 10-8.

The S&W revolver Manila specifically states to use only commercial ammunition and to never use handloads. My guess is they will not replace it.

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Pine_Worker
Ex-LEO, NRA Life

Most all manufacturers say that. It is for liability reasons. I trust my handloads more than commercial. Have had many commercial loads fail.

Also cant recall ever having any warranty dept ask me if i was using handloads.

Rosewood

This is clearly a materials/assembly defect. Certainly not ammunition related and S&W is aware of it. Years ago, I had something similar happen to my 329. I suspect it evolved over time and I didn't notice until completely failed. After several minutes of looking down range, I found the barrel assembly on the roof of the pistol house behind me.

S&W replaced the gun at no charge to me. Attributed the failure to "over torquing" barrel during assembly (see S&WChad's comment above)



FWIW,

Paul

Any new news on this???

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Todd

I finally recieved word from S&W about my 357PD.

I am contacting you in regards to the firearm you sent in to our facility for repair. The evaluation performed by our gunsmiths has determined that your firearm is unrepairable and have deemed this a warranty issue making you eligible for a replacement firearm.

Your replacement firearm will be a new Model 329 PD, SKU 163414 or Model 57, SKU 150481.

I sent them a message saying I am grateful for the offer, but would like a Revolver closer to what this one was worth. We'll see what they say.

I think this is good news; the alternatives would have been no replacement or a partial credit toward a new gun.

I suspect they are basing this offer on what they currently produce as an equivalent gun, not on a collector’s price for your old gun.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I think I would jump at the M57 and not look back. Just MHO.
Jim

You are winning right now... the factory does not care what you think your gun is worth and they offered the closest model they have in production. I would accept that offer and thank them. You are lucky you were not injured and are getting a new gun.

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S&W factory revolver armorer

Sounds good to me. Jump on the model 57 to stay .41 mag. The 329PD is nice with hot 44 specials or downloaded .44 mags.

I’d be surprised if they revert with anything different than what they already communicated. the warranty doesn’t relate to collector value / perceived value. It looks like they offered the options that most closely match your gun that are currently being produced by the factory.

Take the M57 and say thank you. It's easily equivalent worth.
Model 57 - S&W Classics 6" .41 Magnum | Smith & Wesson