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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 06-01-2020, 02:46 PM
Oaktree45 Oaktree45 is offline
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One of the guns I inherited from my brother was a S&W model 640-1with 2 inch barrel 357 Magnum and aftermarket laser grips. I’ve had this gun for quite a long time and today I finally made time to shoot the gun. I shot .38 Specials first and was impressed with the accuracy. I then loaded it with .357 Magnums. Holy ****, the kick was brutal. Shooting .357’s was not fun at all, it was more like a punishment. After 5 rounds I went back to shooting .38 specials.



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Old 06-01-2020, 02:49 PM
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I would too....
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Old 06-01-2020, 02:52 PM
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be thankful you can still see the target and your tremors aren't so bad that you miss it.

: )
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Old 06-01-2020, 03:20 PM
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The Federal 125 gr HP's are brutal in the 640. 158 gr tend to move about 250 fps slower and are much more manageable in my experience. Leave the factory grip on too, I've tried 3 others and the OE is best. Joe
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Old 06-01-2020, 03:20 PM
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Not a wuss, just older and wiser.
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Old 06-01-2020, 03:24 PM
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That is just what I found also! 1 cylinder of 357 and that was enough! Another guy at that range wanted to try it, 1 cylinder full was enough for him also! Nothing wrong with shooting 38+P.
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Old 06-01-2020, 03:26 PM
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Remington Golden Sabers and Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel .357 loads are mid-range. They have more oomph than +P .38’s but don’t hammer you as hard as full blast .357 ammo.

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Old 06-01-2020, 03:30 PM
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The most miserable shooting experience I have ever had was running 5 357 rounds through a 360PD. It was like someone hitting me in the palm with a baseball bat. The only gun that I have ever run one cylinder full through and then sold.

I feel your pain.
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Old 06-01-2020, 03:35 PM
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.357 ammo is not for the faint of heart. I much prefer to shoot .38 special and enjoy my time at the range.
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Old 06-01-2020, 03:38 PM
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Yep you’re a wuss. Just kidding but I regularly shoot 357 mags in my Model 60 with no issue. I usually shoot at least a box on a range visit. I do shoot 158 gr though. Try working up to more cyl a bit at a time.
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Old 06-01-2020, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oaktree45 View Post
One of the guns I inherited from my brother was a S&W model 640-1with 2 inch barrel 357 Magnum and aftermarket laser grips. I’ve had this gun for quite a long time and today I finally made time to shoot the gun. I shot .38 Specials first and was impressed with the accuracy. I then loaded it with .357 Magnums. Holy ****, the kick was brutal. Shooting .357’s was not fun at all, it was more like a punishment. After 5 rounds I went back to shooting .38 specials.



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No. You are not a wuss. Shooting full house .357 mags out of that is doable, but not agreable. And they are not supposed to be agreable specially on the receiving end. Shoot a lot of .38 specials. Shoot 2 cylinders of .357s in the end. Carry it with .357s

If you want to play with .357s use an N frame.
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Old 06-01-2020, 03:49 PM
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The most miserable shooting experience I have ever had was running 5 357 rounds through a 360PD. It was like someone hitting me in the palm with a baseball bat. The only gun that I have ever run one cylinder full through and then sold.

I feel your pain.
==============================

I've had a 360PD for about 6 years now and only shoot 357mag. It is so light that I can actually carry it and keep my pants up. It goes with me on every backcountry trip and I forget I'm wearing it.

Because it weighs 13oz, it is brutal to shoot. It is a GREAT carry or backpack gun; but it is the WORST range toy ever invented.

It's perfect for what it was meant to do.
I both love and hate it at the same time.


Prescut
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Old 06-01-2020, 04:55 PM
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As we have discussed, 357s in J Frames are uncomfortable to painful.
I carry 38 +P in mine.
Heres my 640.
Loaded with +P!
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Old 06-01-2020, 06:38 PM
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I agree with ADP3. I run the Speer Short Barrel 135 grain .357 Gold Dots in my 640-1. It's been the gun I've carried the most for the last few years. I like the Speer SBGD's because they are about 100-150 fps more than the .38 special variety without the pain of a full max .357 load. To me, the recoil is about the same the .38 special SSBGD.
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Old 06-01-2020, 07:30 PM
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The older I get, the less tolerant I am of recoil. See no reason to rattle my teeth with hot loads.
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Old 06-01-2020, 07:36 PM
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be careful shooting 38 then 357... carbon ring can cause over pressure issues... and yes... you are NOT a wuss... J frame and 357 hurt a bit
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Old 06-01-2020, 07:39 PM
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Another plus being a reloader..

My 357 Mag loads are hot 38 spl +P makes the J frame bark just right.
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Old 06-01-2020, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oaktree45 View Post
I then loaded it with .357 Magnums. Holy ****, the kick was brutal. Shooting .357’s was not fun at all, it was more like a punishment. After 5 rounds I went back to shooting .38 specials.
.357 Mags are all I've ever shot in my 640-1. They are a blast.
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Old 06-01-2020, 08:10 PM
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Not a wuss, just wiser!
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Old 06-01-2020, 08:25 PM
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Not enough grip on that one for .357's IMO. The Sile combats I use on my 640-1's are big enough to get all three fingers on and have enough girth to fill the hand pretty well. I find .357's with this setup to be stout, but not painful or discouraging.
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Old 06-01-2020, 08:45 PM
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You are not a wuss.

Magnums are not for everyone and that is nothing to be ashamed of. It is always good when a man knows his limitations

The 357 J-Magnum revolvers were never meant to be fun. They were meant to get your butt out of the bad situation you stumble on when you turn down the wrong street

When and if I make that wrong turn, I want the most power that I can handle. I want to know my projectile will get through that barrier and I want to know that I will be going home.

My J-magnums have only fired magnum ammunition since 1996 because I want to master that little powerhouse of a revolver.
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Old 06-01-2020, 08:52 PM
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You seem to have stumbled on to the answer to the age old question: "Why are there so many .357 J-frames out there in such good condition?"
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Old 06-01-2020, 09:01 PM
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I’ve fired a single cylinder of 125 gr .357 magnum out of my 640 Pro. My hands were a little sore for days. I’ve been carrying it with .38 special Gold Dots since then. I’m looking for the GDSB but can’t seem to find them, of course I’m not looking overly hard.
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Old 06-01-2020, 09:06 PM
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Not a wuss.

I shoot a couple hundred rounds of mid to heavy loads in N-frames and an X-frame every other week, so I'm very recoil tolerant. The most miserable 5 rounds I've ever experienced were in a 3" J-frame PC M60 .357 Mag. Damn, that hurt, and the trigger guard cut my trigger finger knuckle mid-cylinder. Absolutely brutal! I won't ever do that again!
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Old 06-01-2020, 09:09 PM
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Try experimenting with different grips. The grips that are right for you can make a big difference.
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Old 06-01-2020, 09:14 PM
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I own three of the "magnum" J frames. They are among my favorite revolvers but I usually carry them loaded with .38+P ammo. However there are times when I want .357 power in a small package. That's where these little guns shine.

I think it is important to find a load that "shoots to the sights" and that you can hit with.
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Old 06-01-2020, 09:39 PM
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I changed the grips on my M640-1.
Have shot 357 Mags with no hurt but do
have it loaded with Buffalo Bore +P 38 specials.
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Old 06-01-2020, 10:02 PM
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I like the magnum sized J frames for their slightly longer barrel which gives a substantially longer (percentage-wise) ejector rod throw, that comes much closer to fully extracting a 38 Special case. Which is all I shoot.

I did load and shoot one (1) 357 Magnum round when I got my first magnum J frame, just to say I did it. Even with the cushiest Pachmayr grip available it was unpleasant in the extreme. I keep the 357 rounds for the Marlin carbine.
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Old 06-01-2020, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oaktree45 View Post
One of the guns I inherited from my brother was a S&W model 640-1with 2 inch barrel 357 Magnum and aftermarket laser grips. I’ve had this gun for quite a long time and today I finally made time to shoot the gun. I shot .38 Specials first and was impressed with the accuracy. I then loaded it with .357 Magnums. Holy ****, the kick was brutal. Shooting .357’s was not fun at all, it was more like a punishment. After 5 rounds I went back to shooting .38 specials.



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Old 06-01-2020, 10:36 PM
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FWIW I found the comfort level of the “old style” CTC LG 105s as seen on your gun to be horrendous, I switched to the LG 405s which for me were 100% better.
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Old 06-01-2020, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cremaley View Post
.357 ammo is not for the faint of heart. I much prefer to shoot .38 special and enjoy my time at the range.
But put .357 in a full size steel gun and it becomes a whole new ball game. My stepdad's Model 19 shoots .357 like a 640 would shoot wadcutters. Makes a HUGE difference when you step up to a full size steel gun with a 4" or greater barrel.

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Old 06-01-2020, 11:20 PM
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I shoot (carry) a 640 Pro in 357 magnum with 357 magnums every time I am at the range. I don't find it a problem. Of course 38 spl is less recoil. I do have a problem with the Ultra lights Sc, Ti models. 360PD etc. They are abusive. I bought one of those and sold it 4 weeks later. But the steel J frames I find ok as a CCW to shoot. I don't take it to the range to have fun like i would with my 66s or 19s or 686 or even my Ruger GP100. But for why it is built I think S&W did well. I carry mine more than any other revolver. I have observed anecdotely that everyone has a different tolerance for recoil especially in snubbies. I also think the 357 magnum recoil is a bit sharper for lack of a better description than even the larger bore revolvers. I have .44 mag, 4606 XVR and a 500SW all in 4" or shorter. I shoot all of them and don't plan to sell them. Yet I sold my SC/TI 360 PD almost immediately after shooting 2 or 3 cylinders from it.
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Old 06-01-2020, 11:29 PM
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The grip can make a huge difference in comfort. It's hard to beat the Uncle Mike's that came on these guns, when it comes to managing recoil.
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Old 06-01-2020, 11:42 PM
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No wuss, from another old coot, I will be 70 in a few months.

I bought a model 60 Pro Series 3" in a J frame for my carry piece. It definitely lets you know when a round is fired. But it is an excellent carry piece.

I had a model 629 and a model 29, 44 magnums both 6 1/2". I liked them so well I bought a model 629 in 3". The first time I fired it Mother McCree I thought it had blown up in my hand. We are now used to each other and I am impressed with its' accuracy.

If I buy a magnum revolver I only shoot magnum rounds in
them, but that is just me.
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Old 06-01-2020, 11:45 PM
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When you become a "senior shooter", you can move to rimfire and watch the online videos of the young idiots blowing up guns, dislocating shoulders and sigeing eyebrows etc. You have earned the right to sit back and enjoy watching the children play.
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Old 06-01-2020, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by sparkyvega View Post
Not a wuss.

I shoot a couple hundred rounds of mid to heavy loads in N-frames and an X-frame every other week, so I'm very recoil tolerant. The most miserable 5 rounds I've ever experienced were in a 3" J-frame PC M60 .357 Mag. Damn, that hurt, and the trigger guard cut my trigger finger knuckle mid-cylinder. Absolutely brutal! I won't ever do that again!
Ha! The same thing was happening to my trigger finger, I carried band aids to the range. I finally managed to kind of mitigate the damage by gripping as high as possible and changing my trigger finger placement.
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Old 06-02-2020, 07:35 AM
Oaktree45 Oaktree45 is offline
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Originally Posted by sparkyvega View Post
Not a wuss.

I shoot a couple hundred rounds of mid to heavy loads in N-frames and an X-frame every other week, so I'm very recoil tolerant. The most miserable 5 rounds I've ever experienced were in a 3" J-frame PC M60 .357 Mag. Damn, that hurt, and the trigger guard cut my trigger finger knuckle mid-cylinder. Absolutely brutal! I won't ever do that again!

The grip actually took some skin off a small area on my thumb during recoil. Not enough to actually bleed but the top layer of skin is gone for sure. This morning my thumb knuckle is sore and I don't know if it is from shooting or just arthritis. I'll be turning 75 in a few months so this gun will go back into storage. When I go to the range I want to have fun and not try to prove how macho I can be.
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Old 06-02-2020, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by ADP3 View Post
Remington Golden Sabers and Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel .357 loads are mid-range. They have more oomph than +P .38’s but don’t hammer you as hard as full blast .357 ammo.

Best Regards,
ADP3
I've shot Golden Sabers and while I agree they are a definite step down from say American Eagle 158s I'd still want to shoot them out of a 3" K-frame.
Golden Sabers powerwise pretty well match my preferred handloads, 125 gr bullets at around 1200 fps. That's out of a short barrel 66-8. No thanks to shooting 357 out of a J-frame.
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Old 06-02-2020, 08:36 AM
HOUSTON RICK HOUSTON RICK is offline
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I keep in practice with 357 on my S&&W 340PD. I would not call it fun, but then it is not supposed to be. I figure if I do it right, if needed, it will bother the bad guy more than me. 10 rounds at a time is more than enough!
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Old 06-02-2020, 08:39 AM
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Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt. I used to shoot nothing but 357 Mag. Couldn’t understand what was so bad. Then my hands got old. No more 357 from the light guns. Now it’s a 4” steel ported gun with rubber grips.
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Old 06-02-2020, 08:59 AM
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Age earns you some extra privileges on your man card .
You can shoot 38 special and no points will be deducted .

Most of my shooting now days is Special Loads
Just keep shooting ...that's all that counts !
Gary
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Old 06-02-2020, 10:46 AM
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I have a couple airweight 642 revolvers, after shooting the 642, I've no desire for an airweight .357, it ain't gonna be fun. The 642 is fun butn it ain't a lot of fun.
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Old 06-02-2020, 11:01 AM
gen3guy gen3guy is offline
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That 640 was originally chambered in .38 Special only when it first came out. Give Smith & Wesson time. They'll figure out a way to stuff 3 .44 Magnums in that J frame.
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Old 06-02-2020, 12:05 PM
just_jon just_jon is offline
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I bought a 640-1 the year they came out. Only took 5 full power 357 rounds to convert me to 38 Specials. Down loading allowed me to go back to the old school wood grips which makes pocket carry easier.
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Old 06-02-2020, 12:37 PM
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Give Smith & Wesson time. They'll figure out a way to stuff 3 .44 Magnums in that J frame.


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Old 06-02-2020, 12:47 PM
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I freely admit I'm not a fan of recoil. I can shoot a limited amount of +P through my 642 without too much difficulty. Too much, and I'm icing my hand for a couple of days.

I once fired 5 rounds of Buffalo Bore's +P FBI load, which is like .38 Special +P+ or even low-end .357 Magnum power levels, through my 642. My first thought after was, "Well, I'm never doing THAT again!"

To me, increased blast, flash, and recoil outweigh any advantage the increase in power to full-strength .357 Magnum may have, especially in a lightweight snub.

There are light and mid-range loads available. I've used the Gold Dot SB-GDHP in .357 Magnum in a 3" 65. I might consider trying that in a steel J-frame. I was also fond of Winchester's 110gr SJHP, which was ballistically similar to 9mm 115gr +P, IIRC. That might be worth trying, though I know in some of the scandium snubs there are bullet weight restrictions. Should be fine in a steel J-frame.

Back when I used to read gun magazines, I remember one article by John Taffin. He's known for shooting lots of heavy-hitting, hard-recoiling guns. In this article, IIRC, he said he had started experiencing nerve issues in his hands from all the magnum shooting he'd done. Something to think about.

And, finally, some words of wisdom...


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Old 06-02-2020, 07:04 PM
BillyMagg BillyMagg is offline
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Talking 357 Designed around the N Frame

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Originally Posted by cremaley View Post
.357 ammo is not for the faint of heart. I much prefer to shoot .38 special and enjoy my time at the range.
We should remember that the 357 was designed around the 44 frame, first the hot little 38 Heavy Duty, 38/44, and later as the Reg Mag, on to the 357 Magnum....

So it was intended to be potent, kinda like the 4 inch Model 29...
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Old 06-02-2020, 09:33 PM
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I too will be 70 in Sept. I carry a 640 Pro in an ankle holster. I carry .357 loads, but I bought some Federal Premium 130 grain Hyra-Shok. Package says "Low Recoil" (They Lie) they kick pretty tough in a 5" 27. I fired 5 rounds with the S & W rubber boot grips rapid fire. It took 1 second between rounds. It now wears factory wood smooth target grips. Much better. Still a bear, but manageable.
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Old 06-02-2020, 11:29 PM
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The way I see it is that in a real life, intensely stressful defensive scenario you probably won't be too concerned about the recoil, flash and noise of a .357mag. Many people who've been involved in gun fights have stated that in the heat of the moment they can't even remember feeling any recoil or hearing the sound of their own gun firing.

I understand that you can't fool physics and that follow up shots with .357mag may still be more difficult depending on the gun but severe stress is a great motivator to do super human things and with .357mag you are equipped with a round that has the best track record as a man-stopper out of all the common handgun calibers. I don't have the link on me now but I know there were studies conducted back in the day when LEO's were still carrying full sized revolvers as duty weapons that showed .357mag outperformed everything else, even the .45acp.

And for those who think that a .357mag out of a snubnose loses a great deal of power and velocity and becomes the mere equivalent of a .38spl+P, that is pure hogwash. I have seen a handful of ballistics and velocity tests that prove otherwise. In fact, you would have to move all the way up to a full size 9mm pistol shooting a +P load to equal the velocity of a .357mag out of a snubnose. That's not just a minor difference, that is a big difference.

While I agree that anyone who actually enjoys shooting full power .357mags out of any lightweight, aluminum snubby must be a sado-masochist at heart, I don't think that it's asking too much to occasionally shoot .357mag out of a full steel frame snubby like an SP-101 or S&W 640 if you're an otherwise healthy adult. After all, what's the point of having the option if you're afraid to use it?

Last edited by Wood & Steel; 06-03-2020 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 06-02-2020, 11:43 PM
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Heard that

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