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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 06-15-2020, 08:37 AM
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My cylinder gap is way too big My cylinder gap is way too big My cylinder gap is way too big My cylinder gap is way too big My cylinder gap is way too big  
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Default My cylinder gap is way too big

I was shooting my Smith & Wesson 442-1 and I noticed the flames shooting out the side of the cylinder. I have other revolvers and I know you do have some flam shoot out but not like this one. I decided to check the cylinder gap and it measured.012 I checked a couple of my other revolvers and they measured anywhere from .004 to .007 I bought the gun in May of this year new and this was the second time I shot it so I really never noticed it before. I sent an email to Smith and Wesson and told them the problem hopefully theyíll send me a shipping label to ship it back. But my question to you guys is will they replace the barrel on it or send me a new gun? Has anyone else had this problem?....... Hopefully they wonít respond and tell me itís in spec.
Thanks
Mike
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Old 06-15-2020, 08:42 AM
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How did you check the gap? Was cylinder held all the way rearward while measuring?
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Old 06-15-2020, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by slabside2 View Post
I was shooting my Smith & Wesson 442-1 and I noticed the flames shooting out the side of the cylinder. I have other revolvers and I know you do have some flam shoot out but not like this one. I decided to check the cylinder gap and it measured.012 I checked a couple of my other revolvers and they measured anywhere from .004 to .007 I bought the gun in May of this year new and this was the second time I shot it so I really never noticed it before. I sent an email to Smith and Wesson and told them the problem hopefully theyíll send me a shipping label to ship it back. But my question to you guys is will they replace the barrel on it or send me a new gun? Has anyone else had this problem?....... Hopefully they wonít respond and tell me itís in spec.
Thanks
Mike
To be honest I do not know what THEY call in spec, but to me over .009 is too much. A bit less is better! If it is over their spec and they fix you will get a gun back with a little shorter barrel.
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Old 06-15-2020, 08:48 AM
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To be honest I do not know what THEY call in spec, but to me over .009 is too much. A bit less is better! If it is over their spec and they fix you will get a gun back with a little shorter barrel.
I agree with you, but I recall seeing posts from time to time saying that S&W now considers .012 to be within spec. Wouldn't have been the case back in the day.
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Old 06-15-2020, 09:11 AM
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If they shorten the barrel do they also shorten the ejector rod?
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Old 06-15-2020, 09:12 AM
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If they shorten the barrel do they also shorten the ejector rod?
It seems like an easier fix would be just be to replace the barrel.
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Old 06-15-2020, 10:34 AM
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Easiest fix is always to adjust the spec.
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Old 06-15-2020, 10:46 AM
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Best thing to do is call (not email) S&W and get the straight word on your problem.
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Old 06-15-2020, 11:15 AM
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Ö and I noticed the flames shooting out the side of the cylinder.
You say that like its a bad thing.
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Old 06-15-2020, 11:16 AM
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Per the Kuhnhausen’s book, industry revolver barrel/cylinder clearance specification is .006” for jacketed bullets. Some lead bullet bullseye shooters set clearance at .008.

.012 seems a bit excessive. How is the yoke to frame fit? Does the yoke rocks form side to side you apply side to side pressure with the cylinder is locked? I would check that, in case the wrong yoke screw was used or if it’s damaged.

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686PC
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Old 06-15-2020, 11:28 AM
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I just measured my 642-1 that I have had for several years now. The max thickness feeler gauge that will fit, with the cylinder pushed to the rear, is .007".

Dale
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Old 06-15-2020, 11:32 AM
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My Model 34 was brought to spec using end shake washers - but it had the opposite problem. The gap was too small.

Truthfully. If the gun was shooting good I wouldn't worry about it. Yes, you will lose velocity - but just think what you will be gaining in special effects with all that flame!
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Old 06-15-2020, 12:01 PM
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As mentioned a E Mail is not gonna work, you need to cal them at the right time and day. Never on a Monday!
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Old 06-16-2020, 09:26 AM
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Unless I am mistaken, S&W now considers a barrel-cylinder gap of 0.012" to be the maximum, but that means it is still within safe specifications. Personally, I think 0.008" should be the maximum, but that's just me.
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Old 06-16-2020, 01:11 PM
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I remeasured it today and it was .015 it was tight but it slid through. I’m sending it back today. The count down begins.
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Old 07-20-2020, 02:50 PM
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I remeasured it today and it was .015 it was tight but it slid through. Iím sending it back today. The count down begins.
Just in case anyone is sending a gun in for repair it took 24 days to get it back. Now what they did to repair it. They installed a new barrel and repaired the yoke. The cylinder gap is now .004 And it looks perfect. Iím 😊 happy.
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Old 07-20-2020, 04:21 PM
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Thank you for sharing your results!! So many threads like this just hang with no conclusion noted! Glad the repair was successful.
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Old 07-20-2020, 04:39 PM
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This may be a bad time of year to send in a gun. If I recall correctly, their 2 week summer shutdown starts soon.
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Old 07-20-2020, 04:40 PM
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Sorry, now I see you already sent it and received it back. Good for you!
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Old 07-20-2020, 06:10 PM
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Thank you for sharing your results!! So many threads like this just hang with no conclusion noted! Glad the repair was successful.
Thank you for the kind words.
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Old 07-20-2020, 07:19 PM
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I had a 317 with excessive cylinder gap, took the cylinder and crane assembly in ultrasonic cleaner for about 15 min. Dried it off and lubed it, cylinder gap returned to what it was when new.
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Old 07-20-2020, 11:24 PM
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I agree with the .004 to .007 gap readings. Yours sounds like it is in proper specs now. It was worth the wait and at least they took care of it.
Jim
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Old 07-21-2020, 05:27 AM
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The S&W Customer - Owner has now become the final QC checker.....

Send it back and tell them to do whatever they need to and make it right.
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Old 07-21-2020, 05:44 AM
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Just for clarification, the max BC gap is .010", not .012"
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Old 07-21-2020, 06:32 AM
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For many years the B/C Gap was .006" - since they have had trouble adhering to their own spec's - they simply increased the gap number.
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Old 07-21-2020, 10:55 AM
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FWIW on a side note, I have an old 686 that had a gap of 0.009-10" that I had a LGS shave the shoulder that came back with a renewed gap of 0.003" that made me very happy. The lesson is that you don't always have to send your Smith off to the mother-ship. Sure, it cost me 2C note$, but at least I was/am able to support a local gun shop.
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Old 07-21-2020, 03:57 PM
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Personally, I like revolvers that shoot flames sideways. It looks great on videos posted online and it keeps the hair off my knuckles much more effectively than a razor.
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Old 07-21-2020, 11:34 PM
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The S&W Customer - Owner has now become the final QC checker.....
Hey, just like Harbor Freight!!
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Old 08-01-2020, 01:57 PM
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I agree with you, but I recall seeing posts from time to time saying that S&W now considers .012 to be within spec. Wouldn't have been the case back in the day.
Cylinder gap SPEC per 31 July 2020 was .004 to .010. Which is sad seeing how Ive bought 3 Smiths this month 2 being poorly machined and my Model 19-9 Classic was so bad I had to have it sent back and cylinder replaced. That being said it returned with a .011 cylinder gap. So after a month of waiting on the cylinder issue to be fixed looks like it has to go back due to an out of spec cylinder gap. .006 should be the standard but it looks like S&W is going for quantity over quality now days. Its a real shame.
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Old 08-01-2020, 02:37 PM
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Gunsmiths are no more they’re called assemblers now.
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Old 08-01-2020, 03:19 PM
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I have a 25-2 that's had a gap of .009" for years. It's plenty accurate, but the loads chronograph about 100 fps slower than a shorter-barreled .45 revolver, no doubt due to the big gap.
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Old 08-01-2020, 03:23 PM
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I would just buy some longer bullets and forget it. lol
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Old 08-01-2020, 03:55 PM
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You can buy cylinder shims?
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Old 08-01-2020, 09:09 PM
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The gap on my new 686+ 3-5-7 is .004". I measured after reading the replies in this thread, so I'm a happy camper with that.
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Old 08-02-2020, 12:37 AM
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I have a no dash 686 with a gap of .009, and it is one of my better shooting revolvers.
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Old 08-03-2020, 09:36 AM
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You can buy cylinder shims?
Yes...TriggerShims.com

You can get a pack with 3 each, .002", .003", .004", .005" cylinder shims. These are meant to correct Cylinder Shake. It will not effect cylinder/barrel gap unless you measure C/B gap with the cylinder relaxed rather than pushed to the rear.

Tip...you will need to rig a small magnet to reach down and pull out shims in case you install the wrong size.
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Old 08-04-2020, 05:10 PM
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My experience with a B/C gap and the factory fix on a NIB Performance Center 642 last October: New 642-1 PC Cylinder Gap
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Old 08-04-2020, 10:57 PM
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"Honey, does this shim make my barrel-cylinder gap look big?"

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Old 09-16-2020, 09:37 PM
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Late entry, but...

586 no dash. .010
686 no dash. .010
629-1. .008
19-3 which spent 2 weeks under water after hurricane Katrina .006

Just adding to the data base...

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Old 09-17-2020, 02:16 AM
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My guess is they will set the existing barrel in a couple of turns and, if necessary, trim the ejector rod or replace it, whichever is easier and cheaper.
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Old 09-17-2020, 06:57 AM
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All S&W barrels use 36 to the inch threads of various diameters. One turn gets you .02777. Call it .0278. So it is only ever one turn which in this case would make the extension about .0158 to long so you would then trim barrel extension about .012 to .014 in this case to get the correct gap and then trim the tip of ejector rod and center pin o it functions correctly. Maybe freshen the forcing cone a bit depending on how itt checks out.

Cylinder shims will not close up the barrel to cylinder gap. They get rid of end shake by holding the cylinder tighter to the rear.

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Old 09-17-2020, 11:43 AM
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For those of you whom have stated best to call Smith & Wesson I would have to disagree. Last week I called to complain that my rear mbus blade on my new M&P15 was crooked and to compensate I had to crank the blade all the way to the left. I was offered a return slip with a promise of a 6 to 8 week turn around due to the sights being on backorder. I simply wanted a new sight, very easy to install and no need to ship off my rifle for x amount of weeks. I then offered to send a pic to her. The customer service agent said no need, her supervisor agreed that my rifle would have to be sent in. A little later in the day I emailed customer service with a pic of the sight attached and got a reply within an hour that a new sight would be sent to me at no charge with an attached order number. I think it's more of a matter of who you speak to.

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Old 09-17-2020, 12:03 PM
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My 640 Pro had this issue. I sent it back and they stated that they replaced the crane and cylinder. It took about three weeks to get the revolver back but it was done right. It is now one of my favorite revolvers.
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Old 10-03-2020, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Stroker468 View Post
Late entry, but...

586 no dash. .010
686 no dash. .010
629-1. .008
19-3 which spent 2 weeks under water after hurricane Katrina .006

Just adding to the data base...
Upon further review...I donít think i measured this correctly. These measurements are with the cylinder pushed fully rearward. From what Iíve read in other posts on this site, this measurement is to be taken with the cylinder ďat restĒ. Correct?

Last edited by Stroker468; 10-03-2020 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 10-03-2020, 10:36 AM
FlyFish FlyFish is offline
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My cylinder gap is way too big My cylinder gap is way too big My cylinder gap is way too big My cylinder gap is way too big My cylinder gap is way too big  
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Originally Posted by Stroker468 View Post
Upon further review...I donít think i measured this correctly. These measurements are with the cylinder pushed fully rearward. From what Iíve read in other posts on this site, this measurement is to be taken with the cylinder ďat restĒ. Correct?
No - cylinder gap is measured with the cylinder held firmly to the rear, as this is where the cylinder will be when the gun is fired.
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Old 10-05-2020, 01:06 PM
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They make shims to adjust that. I purchased them for my n frames. I trust no one touching my guns when I can fix them. Iím learning as I go. I built a 1911 so far. I remember what I did I shimmed the trigger and hammer to center them and take the side to side play out. The hammer and trigger can drag and rub on the reciever housing adding friction to the action, adding wear shims with a moly paste eliminates the extra friction and wear.

Search you tube I also have a s&w dvd.

Revolver Cylinder Shims Endshake Crane and Yoke Shims

Last edited by BigBill; 10-05-2020 at 03:26 PM.
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  #47  
Old 10-05-2020, 04:10 PM
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My cylinder gap is way too big My cylinder gap is way too big My cylinder gap is way too big My cylinder gap is way too big My cylinder gap is way too big  
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Barrel cylinder gap, or the expressed distance between the cylinder face and the barrel extension, is correctly measured with the cylinder at rest, and fully forward.

If you measure with the cylinder held back, you then have the B/C gap plus the available cylinder end shake.
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Last edited by armorer951; 10-05-2020 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 10-06-2020, 11:17 AM
jcelect jcelect is offline
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Default BC gap

OK! Trying to fathom all this advice and no one has mentioned excessive end shake and head space! How do you correct this without affecting BC gap? Shrink the cyl window, or start over with a new cylinder? ? ? ?
jcelect
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Old 10-06-2020, 12:31 PM
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armorer951 armorer951 is offline
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jcelect,

Excessive headspace and endshake can be corrected by replacing and re-fitting a new yoke, by stretching the yoke barrel or, more commonly, by using shims to return the yoke barrel to the correct length. When this is done, the cylinder is moved back to an "in spec" condition with respect to headspace, and the b/c gap is opened the equivalent amount. So if the cylinder is moved back .004", the barrel cylinder gap will also grow wider by that amount.

If the b/c gap gets too large, or over .012" according to the current factory spec, the barrel can be set back one additional turn, or approx .028", and the b/c spec re-set by re-facing the resulting longer barrel extension, and re-cutting the forcing cone if necessary. Of course, after the barrel is set back, adjustment of the extractor rod and front locking bolt interface is also required, which can be accomplished by shortening the extractor rod collar and tweaking the center pin's OAL.

Always remember, if the headspace and b/c gap are within specifications, end shake is a "non-issue". Some end shake is not only normal but necessary, and this gauge or space is, in fact, built into the cylinder assembly to allow for proper operation (opening and closing), the proper, unrestricted rotation of the cylinder, and for the assembly to accommodate dirt and lubricants.

Carter
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Last edited by armorer951; 10-16-2020 at 06:41 PM.
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Old 10-16-2020, 10:12 AM
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I Bought a new 442-2 yesterday and checked the gap .003 and that was tight. I checked the gun out thoroughly in the Gun shop and it looked 100% glad to report. It has the lock but iím not going to let that rent any space in my head
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