Hi All I am new to handling guns having recently moved to the USA from Scotland
I was wondering if I get a snub nose revolver S&W 640 and use .38+p rounds, will it handle recoil better than an S&W 642 with the same rounds?
I intend to Concealed carry this and am wondering if this plan is viable? i figure a steel frame being heavier will be more stable but as i mentioned earlier..im new to firearms and I need some advice.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Martin

I carry a 640-1 because I'm more confidant with it. I struggled through a box of 50 with me 642, I can shoot the 640 all day.

Grips make the biggest difference. I run Altamont Combats on the 640, and Eagle Secret Service on the 642.

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SWCA #2817

Yes, the steel 640 will have less felt recoil than the lightweight 642 with the same ammo.

That said, even a steel J-frame can be a handful, especially for someone new to shooting.

The general recommendation is to start with a full-size gun, or a .22 caliber gun. It'll help with learning the fundamentals without recoil being an issue. Once comfortable with the larger gun, you could then move to the smaller, more difficult to shoot guns.

However, I know that may not be feasible for some people and they need to start with a smaller gun. Not ideal, but certainly do-able.

First and foremost, I'd recommend taking an introductory course before deciding on a first firearm. Look in your area for a course that includes the option of trying different guns as part of the training. Many of these courses will also let you rent a gun to try if you don't already have one.

If you do decide to go with a 640, start with dry fire practice using snap caps. There are a number of threads available if you do a search covering practice ideas and safety tips.

When you can consistently work the trigger while maintaining good gun alignment and feel comfortable to try live ammo, start with light target loads, either 130gr full-metal jacket rounds or 148gr target wadcutters. Starting with rounds that may be too powerful can induce negative habits, like flinching and jerking the trigger. Part of the reason for going with a full-size gun or a .22.

When you're comfortable with that level of power, then you can try some of the stouter +P rounds.

Getting grips that fit your hand comfortably can help with recoil, but some of those grips can be on the large side and makes it harder to conceal the gun, which is the primary advantage of the J-frame.

Hope that helps get you started. If you only take one thing from my post, the most important point would be getting some training first because it can help prevent problems later on down the road.

You came from a beautiful country. I visited there two years ago.

I think your assumptions are correct. The 640 will handle the recoil better if all things are equal. Your choice of grips also have a major effect on how much you "feel" the recoil. Lighter guns are a bit easier to tote around. Here again, your choice of holsters makes a lot of difference in how comfortable you are when carrying.

I carry a S&W 640. My lovely wife thinks it to be too heavy. She carries a S&W 642. Both are great choices. I would go to a range and try both before purchase.

I retired my Model 638 because practicing with it was not enjoyable. The recoil was substantial and about 20 rounds were all I cared to send down range during one session. My new EDC is a Ruger semi-auto compact in 9 mm. Less recoil, very concealable, more rounds, and a bit more power.

Martin,

Yes, an all-steel 640 will “absorb” a bit more felt recall because 640 simply has more mass than a 642. That’s just Physics. A 640 will still feel snappy with full-power loads, but not quite as punishing. The extra weight makes a 640 a little less convenient to carry than an Airweight 642 as well. Everything is a trade off. Grips play a part in the felt recoil equation too.

I’m sure you know if you intend to carry or keep a revolver for defensive purposes, you need to practice enough to remain proficient. If you can’t control +P enough to be confident, there is no problem with carrying standard pressure ammo. As long as you can draw, point, control the trigger, follow through and get back on target well enough to hit a paper-plate-sized target at twenty feet or so then, you should be good to go. If you ever need to use either of these revolvers in a defensive situation, it is doubtful that you will even notice or remember recoil. You just need to be able to place your shots where they count. Most folks I know consider 642 a pocketable solution and consider 640’s or 60’s best carried on the belt. I usually practice with standard pressure ammo, then fire a cylinder or two of defensive loads in each practice session.

Having said all of that, snubnose revolvers, while extremely reliable and easy to conceal, can be some of the most difficult guns to shoot well. If this is your first or one-and-only then, you may wish to look closely at a subcompact semi-auto like Shield, LC9, G43, P365, Hellcat, etc.

Good luck to you - I’m sure you will make a great choice.

FWIW; I carry an 340 with Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel ammo.

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Regards,
-MrMoose

I think a Model 640 is an excellent choice. I don't think it is too heavy for pocket carry in a jacket or coat but maybe too heavy for a pocket in a pair of cargo shorts. The Model 640-1 in .357 Magnum may be easier to find, but I don't believe it is necessary to have a .357 in a snubby revolver when good self defense .38 Special loads are available. Not withstanding that a .357 in a Model 640-1 isn't much fun to shoot.

Here is mine with the factory supplied Uncle Mikes Neoprene boot grips.

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Welcome to the Neighborhood! My daily carry is a 640-1. I like to pocket carry it especially during our hot Texas summer. The extra 8 ounces don't bother me.

The recoil even with .38 Special+P's is very mild in my opinion. I carry mine loaded with Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 135 grain .357 mag. rounds however. This is a light.357 mag. load, not full power. Speer makes this same bullet in .38 Special, which is also a very good carry load.

I prefer a stainless j frame to an Airweight for carry. Other guys like the Airweights better. I've carried both.

I prefer the lighter weight for carry, since that is what you do 99% of the time. In a life or death situation you probably won't be bothered by recoil, but you will be bothered carrying around extra weight all the time.

As far as practice goes, at the range fire a cylinder or two of your preferred carry ammo, and spend the rest of the time with light target loads to hone trigger control, sight alignment, etc.

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Only a cold warrior

Well, if you’ve just recently moved, I’m sure you know all the laws around carrying concealed in your state. Hopefully you’re in a Constitutional Carry state because if not, you might find it hard to carry legally.

Anyway, ya, everything that makes a gun easy to carry, makes it harder to shoot easily. Weight is a big one. The difference between 15oz and 22 is remarkable. As is a bigger grip. For that matter, porting, being it’s loud. Bullet weight and loads. All important considerations.

At the end of the day, for me, I chose a 442 that I load with +P wadcutters. It’s light recoiling and the gun is so light, I carry it everywhere.

Best of luck. Welcome to America.

I found that Hogue’s rubber Monogrip made the difference between hating to practice with my 442 and enjoying shooting it.

whatever Smith you choose, start with low recoil, manageable rounds that will allow you to develop good shooting, not recoil 'flinch' habits.
Cannot go wrong with 158 grain standard wadcutters, highly accurate, mild recoil, fine close range defensive round as well.

Agreed. The most important thing is that you can get quick, consistent hits on target. My airweight snubs are loaded with Speer .38 Special 135gr Short-Barrel Gold Dot +P. But I also keep a couple of different low-recoil loads on hand, including Federal 125gr Nyclad (my favorite low-recoil defensive load, but they're no longer in production) and some 148gr target wadcutters (a good choice for a low-recoil self defense load). With developing hand issues, there may come a time when I'll have to replace my +P loads with something more manageable. And there's nothing wrong with that.

I'm on my 2nd snub , both 642 airweights . I literally wore the first one out I shot it so much using +P stuff . Factory ammo , a 110 gr / 38special and 148gr std wadcutters are very comfortable . 158 grs had more recoil and for me , the point of aim and point of impact didn't line up -- shot high . Regards Paul

As others have alluded to, the heavier the handgun, the less felt recoil you will experience. In my 340 M&P, I use Buffalo Bore 158+p LSWCHP at about 1000 fps., and it isn't the most comfortable to shoot, but it is better than .357 mag. I think if you were forced to use it, you would probably not notice the recoil. In my 640 Pro, I usually use the Buffalo Bore, but due to its weight, some .357 is a bit more tolerable. 135 gr. GDHP .357 is bearable in limited quantities. In my old Model 60 and Model 36, although they are steel framed, are smaller. They are rarely fired anymore, as they are more keepsakes from my law enforcement days, but if they were to be carried or shot, It would be with appropriate lighter-recoiling .38 Special.

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Dave Frost

Welcome to America!! Glad to have you aboard.
I do not care for light weight anything in a handgun.
J frames especially. You can practice all day and night with lighter loads and mix a few carry rounds in all you want to.
The net result of a light weight handgun with potent loads is the same in practices as it is in practical application. Lightweight and short barrel = huge muzzle jump and if you are in a bind and need a second or third shot the time and effort to get your front sight back on the target is something you may want to think about.
I will carry the extra weight. If you are worried enough about your safety to carry a gun you best give some attention to how it handles when making multiple rapid fire shots. The weight you saved for carrying may become a liability.

Training, get as much as you can. Practice, handle, dry fire. Range time, as much as you can.

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No baby we aint

Welcome from a descendent of Lanarkshire.

In my opinion, your choice of ammunition will be more critical than the choice of the 640 vs 642.

I very strongly recommend target wadcutters for .38 special carry.

There are several reasons:
Extremely light recoil
Wadcutters will generally shoot to point of aim.
Wadcutter bullets do not rely on expansion and performance is predictable. The bullet cuts a .full 36 hole and penetrates in a straight line as deeply as most +P rounds. There's no concern about the nose getting plugged and failing to expand.
They cost much less than +P ammo, allowing you to practice with the same round you carry.

The only downside is full wadcutters are slow to reload, but the first five in the cylinder are the most critical, anyway.

You can switch to +P for carry once you're more confortable with the gun (though I see no reason to).

All that said, I suggest the steel 640. It should be easier to shoot and build confidence more quickly.

Before purchasing something you might try looking at a couple of ranges that offer rental guns and see if you can locate a heavier steel frame snubbie and a lighter alloy frame snubbie for testing.

Everybody is different with regards to recoil sensitivity and you might surprise yourself with regards to how little or how much you can tolerate.

My wife has a 638 and I have a 642. There are numerous types of light recoiling self-defense loads on the market as I have bought several for my wife to test/carry. You can always start with something like that, or a target HBWC type load, and work up to standard and +P loads as your ability and recoil tolerance increases.

Dale

Thank you all for your input, I will look into the training aspect of this and see if there is somewhere I can try a few different options,
I applied and received my carry license (GA) a couple of months ago but have only recently decided to actively get something for defense, I bought a Glock 17 about 3 weeks ago (recommended by a friend) and have fired around 100 rounds through it and to my surprise I was pretty accurate, it was actually fun, of course, was in a controlled environment and there was no pressure on me at all, I keep it in a small safe at home,
This concealed carry gun, however, is the one I'm struggling with. Thank
you all once again for your help. I will let you know what i decide to get.
thanks,

Don't be too surprised if you eventually end up with a few different handguns for different carry situations.

A lightweight pocket gun has it's advantages, especially in the summertime with lighter/less clothing. In the winter you may find that a larger/more powerful caliber gun may be easier to carry due to winter clothing, especially large front coat pockets or holstered underneath jackets, etc.....

You may even wind up with 3 or 4 flavors before you know it.

And since you already have a Glock 17 if you wanted to keep to a similar caliber there are snubbies that are chambered in 9mm out there...………….

Dale

Since you like the Glock 17, have you considered a Glock 19 or 26? They're more compact versions of the 17. There's also the 43 and 43x if you need a slimmer design.

As tenntex32 mentioned, it's good to have options for different situations. My main carry gun is a Beretta PX4 Compact. Size-wise, it's like a Glock 26 barrel/slide mounted on a Glock 19 frame. With my build, typical clothing, and carry gear I can conceal it effectively and comfortably.

But I also have a 642, which I normally carry as a BUG in an ankle holster, but will also carry it on the waist in an IWB holster as my primary/only gun if I want something more discreet. If necessary, I can also carry it in a pocket holster. And until some recent financial issues, I'd been on the hunt for a pocket .380 for some additional versatility. Hopefully I'll be able to resume that hunt before long.

While it's best to be as consistent as possible (same gun, same carry position, etc.), some flexibility can be an advantage.

For the most part, my observation is that, with the right clothing and carry gear, most people can probably conceal something larger than they might think. You may even be able to carry your Glock 17. Many people carry full-size guns, though admittedly you may have to dress around the gun and it may require a bit more committment and effort than a snub. It's all about finding the balance of size, weight, comfort, concealability, and accessibility (not necessarily in that order). For some, it's a snub revolver. For others it's a full-size pistol with a BUG or two. It may take some time, experimentation, and trial-and-error to work that out for yourself, and can change over time as you gain experience and go through life changes.

Speaking of experimentation...

I don't know if GA requires a training class to get a permit. Even if it does, my limited experience with these classes is that they might spend a little time discussing carry methods, but don't go into details. It's probably best to think of it as a system, with your gun(s), holsters, and clothing as a system that works together. If you want to carry on your belt, either IWB or OWB, the belt becomes the foundation. A good gun belt is very important. With any method, the holster is also important. There are lots of good threads giving advice and suggestions if you do a search in the Carry Gear and Concealed Carry subforums. Like finding the right gun(s), finding the right carry gear is often an exercise in trial-and-error. We all have holster boxes full of gear we've tried with varying levels of success.

My hope is that you don't find this overwhelming. Just start where you can. I've taken some classes and have been carrying for nearly a decade now, and in that time I've learned what works and what doesn't work for me.

Best of luck on your journey.

I hope this was helpful.

Apologies for yet another novel.

9mm snub is a good recommendation.

I prefer to carry S&W J frame revolvers however, I know at least two people that, when given the choice, fired both then selected Ruger LCR. LCR has an interesting cam system that smooths out double-action trigger pull and comes with a rubber grip which fills the hand and helps tame recoil. Replaceable front sight. LCR is available in 9mm if you want to consolidate ammunition type with your G17. Something to “throw in the blender” and consider.

9mm 640’s can be found. I came across an older 640 chambered in 9mm but it was LNIB and carried a hefty price tag so, I passed on it. If you are set on a 640 and like the idea of 9mm, perhaps a post in the WTB section might turn up a gem for you. Good way to start S&W collecting too

Have fun - I’m sure you will make a great choice...

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Regards,
-MrMoose

[QUOTE=ContinentalOp;140813872I don't know if GA requires a training class to get a permit. [/QUOTE]

Nope. Just get get fingerprinted to prove you are who you say you are, get your picture taken. fill out a form, pay a moderate fee (I think it was $45 but am not sure) and wait for the permit to show up in the mail. I worry about the future but right now GA is still very gun friendly.

Biggest downside of the GA permit and permit system is the permit looks almost exactly like a GA drivers license. I was getting funny looks from a TSA agent once and realized I gave them the wrong card. Before I could get out my driver's license the TSA agent said the permit was fine since it was a government issued photo ID. Even the TSA is gun friendly.

Welcome to Georgia!

As others have said, an all steel gun will recoil less than a lighter alloy gun.

But before you buy the heavier gun consider if you will really carry something that heavy. A lot of people buy a big or heavy gun and end up leaving it at home because it is uncomfortable.

My personal limit is about 20 to 24 ounces fully loaded. Anything more than that and I have to start wearing a very stiff and uncomfortable gun belt to support the weight. There are people that carry much heavier guns much more often than I carry my light one. There is a lot of variation in how much gun people will carry but most of my friends and I ended up with something on the small and light side.

With a revolver you have the option of practicing with low recoil rounds and carrying more powerful ones. Recoil management is a part of shooting well so there are limits to this approach. But if the defense ammo is too much try shooting some 148 grain wadcutter ammo if you can find some. It is usually has the mildest recoil of any 38 Special/.357 ammo. And

If you like your G17, definitely consider a G26. Ammo, magazine, and manual of arms commonality. Having said that, I love snubbies and no reason to not have both.

1. My steel 60 with Pachmayr Compacs is very comfortable to shoot 38 Specials, no matter how powerful. Were it a 357 I would expect them to be "usable". I look forward to shooting this gun. But it's too heavy to carry in a shorts pocket. I can deal with it IWB (best) or OWB.

2. My Airweight with big rubber grips is "ok" to shoot with mild range ammo, powerful rounds I don't enjoy. The grips make it too big for pocket carry, but IWB/OWB works fine.

3. The Airweight with traditional Magna grips is more difficult to shoot with even mild rounds. But the light weight and small grips work great for pocket carry.


My choice, were I you: Get the 640, use 38 Specials, and practice a lot. Plan on carrying IWB and trying different grips. Get an airweight later.

Welcome and good luck!

I have never been much on the micro .380acp pistol examples. Those pistol examples the next size up seem more practical to me and possibly manageable in 9mm as well.....but must be ultra-reliable with ammo selection.

I have always felt there is a reason why I compare all other lightweight carry options to the Airweight 38spl revolver...…….as it is so versatile with very light loads all the way up to +P loads, and then reliability wise.

Accuracy is much better in a snub revolver than many people consider possible, especially if you are disciplined enough to take it to the range often. I got lucky and saw this firsthand while I was a young Marine shooting at an off-base civilian gun range...…..and of course it was news to me then!

When I was younger I seemed to enjoy the ease/precision of single action shooting, but as I have "matured" I welcome the challenge of double action shooting and it has made my overall handgun shooting ability even better for it.

With a 642 or 442 type example (wearing original tiny grips) you can easily drop it in a pocket and not worry as much about something entering the the hammer area due to it being fully enclosed....although one should always make it a proper habit not to carry any loose small items in the same pocket due to the other open areas of the revolver. (I also recommend a very thin "sticky" pocket style holster for prolonged pocket carry.)

On a sidenote……...I also own a 22 ounce Charter Arms Pitbull snubbie in .45acp. The added weight and size, compared to the lighter/smaller 15 ounce 642 Airweight, makes it about as "tame" as the Airweight with +P ammo, recoil wise, and I love the comfort of having the .45acp power in the reliability of a "small'ish" sized relatively light weight revolver...….when it makes sense to have the extra weight and size of the Pitbull anyways.

I would think a steel framed 9mm snubbie would also be about as tame as shooting an Airweight 38spl, especially if shooting +P ammo from the Airweight……..but to be perfectly honest I have never fired a 9mm snubbie to compare the two.

I have even seen .380acp "lightweight" snubbie revolvers out there and at one time thought about getting one for my wife, to go with her .380 auto pistol, but with the wide range of .38spl ammo options out there it seemed somewhat silly to buy it as the .380 ammo selection seems very narrow as to cycle the auto pistols in that caliber reliably.

Dale

Martin.
Welcome.
Everyone will have their preference in selecting the right handgun for them.
Try before you buy is a good way to go about making your decision.
My selection for a j frame is a 60-14 .357 magnum.
Reason: I have a 686 .357 mag and alot of .357 ammo. The jframe magnum would usally be using .38 special or .38 special +p. But can use .357 if that is all that I have .
For concealed carry .38 special +p is good.

Grips. S&W should have some sort of rubber grip available at their shop. I bought an Altamont dymondwood (polymer laminate)
boot grip.
After a few years settled in on a crimpson trace red laser boot grip with backstrap covered.

Weight stainless steel vs. alloy. I started carrying IWB but later changed to OWB or frequently pocket carry front pocket in jeans
The weight was not that much of a criteria for me. I like stainless steel for durability and ease of care.

Back to why a 60? Exposed hammer single action or double action. This was primarily for flexibility in woods carry
For concealed carry I would go with the 640.

Practice:
I like azoom snap caps for dry fire. Use .38 sp for range practice.
Enjoy

I have XLG hands and have been carrying a light weight J frame for over 50 years. Stocks that cover the backstrap help, plus using a thumb-over-thumb grip across the backstrap will mitigate recoil.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

I have a 442, 360J and a steel 60. I thing for pocket carry, with holster the lightweights are the one. For belt or IWB 640 is ok
Whenever I go to the range I take a lightweight. I practice with standard velocity hand loads. Then about 4 cylinders of Remington 125gn +p. That or similar is my go to carry load. As stated in a former post a wadcutter bullet is a viable option for the light guns or home protection. I’m not a big or tough guy and I have no problem hitting 5X5 rapid fire in a silhouette target at 7 yards with the +P ammo.

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Welcome to the USA and the forum!
Martdrum: To answer your direct question. Yes!
I had a 642 and a 360j, sold them both. For me shooting 38+P ammo was brutal!
If you want to shoot a fair bit, you need a snubnose revolver that weighs
21oz or more. I did (21oz) and it was a pleasure to shoot. JMO
A gun that you can shoot without discomfort, will lead to shooting more often.
The 640 also gives you the option of using 357mags if you desire.
Also you might have a look at the mod. 60LS. It was a favorite of mine.

Be SAFE and Shoot Often!

Nobody told me I HAD to shoot +P.
Standard velocity wadcutters cut a nice 35 caliber hole.
Easier solution than a heavier gun.
I don’t see the need for 357 out of a 2” barrel
To each his own

Welcome to the USA. I've been carrying concealed over 45 years as a police officer and after retirement an armed civilian. There's lots of good advice above. An option no one mentioned is the snub S&W J frame or Ruger LCR in one of the 32 calibers. You get 6 shots not 5. 32 is lower recoil and several companies load ammo that overlaps with the milder 38 range. I teach concealed carry now and let my students shoot a variety of my guns. Many of them purchased a 32 after trying it and have not looked back. You don't mention your age but my older folks especially find a late in life romance with the 32.

Another option not mentioned is a small frame revolver with a 3 inch barrel. The extra inch makes shooting a small frame much easier. They have lower recoil and a longer sight radius. Take the training and shoot a variety before buying and you'll be a happier camper.

Oh, what do I carry you ask? I always carry the custom Wiegand 642 in my avatar and usually one additional firearm that varies depending on the situation.

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SWCA 3417 HF 642 NRA-TC

I have tried several lightweights, and the older I get, the more brutal the feel to my wrists.
I reverted to, and thoroughly enjoy and feel comfortable with, my S&W Mod. 649 with .38 Spl. wadcutters. As a matter of fact, I really like having the SA/DA option in my hand (the hammer is shrouded, but still accessible for your use). For me, I like the extra weight when I am shooting, and I really don't notice it when carrying.
So, here's a vote for the trusty old 649.

Here it is with the blue version Mod. 49

Welcome! Certainly do what you like. Freedom is what it is all about, but I respectfully suggest that you try the S&W Model 340PD Airlite. Train on it and you will no longer worry about the recoil of any standard manufacture handgun. It is very light and easy to carry. You can carry it all day with no problems. Mine sits in my pocket (in a pocket holster). It handles 38 well, but kicks like a mule with 357 Mag. You carry for the impact on the bad guy not recoil. Recoil concerns go away with training and practice, Buy the gun you really want to start with. Safely enjoy whatever you choose!

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If I have to, this is all I do to minimize the recoil in my J frame snubby.

Just pick the one with the big red X

Simple as that.

enjoy,
bdGreen

For me, the solution for taming "felt" recoil in a small revolver, is all in your choice of grips. Like these.

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John

I’m not a big fan of rubber grips with a rough texture. They seem to leave a rash on my hands that and when they get called oversized grips says something. I have always found that for me a proper fitting grip is more important than the material. My choice for the J-Frame is the VZ 320 CNC cut from blanks of G10 material. The front of the grip forms a v shape that fits into your inside knuckle joint. This helps in keeping the gun from twisting around and a braiding your hand. My hands just lock onto this grip and are ready for quick follow up shot.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/attachm...1&d=1593066788

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Mitigating revolver recoil really comes down to a few things. Caliber, weight and using rubber grips. Wood is pretty but rubber is comfortable.

A Model 60 loaded with wadcutters Is pretty light recoil wise, accurate, and they penetrate well.

+1 on whomever recommends Hogue Bantams. I was very pleasantly surprised, and enjoyed my range day plenty. Definitely a recommendation.