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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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  #51  
Old 07-29-2020, 07:35 PM
Trooper Joe Trooper Joe is offline
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The 442 without the Hillary lock us a great gun. In the 60's, the Michigan State Police carried an alloy "Bodyguard" model with stainless steel cylinders, for back up and off duty. The newer 442 is a better gun with more advanced alloy and engineered features. I gave mine to my daughter when she retired from MSP after 31 years. Got to get that back from her since she carries a Glock 43 more often.

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  #52  
Old 07-30-2020, 02:34 AM
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I called S&W the other day, mine was shipped in May of 2014, so newer than I originally thought, and no Hillary hole. I found a reloading supply place on line and picked up a 250 count bag of 158gr lead semi-wadcutters, which arrived yesterday. I need to pick up some more primers and a shell holder for the Lee hand primer, then I'm set. I've carried this in a Remora in my pocket from day one, and love it. Out on the Goldwing, I don't even notice it's there, nor does anyone else. Now if I can find the Bantum grips I have stashed, I'll be great.
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Old 07-30-2020, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 28WheelGirl View Post
I just bought a 442-1 this summer because I got so excited that a new S&W didn't have the lock. I didn't even know that was possible! I'm not worried about rust in this dry desert country where I live and it is a great summer time pocket gun. I purchased it at a local gun shop and the two guys that work there also have one!
Used to be not uncommon decades ago (and more! ) for a person to empty his pockets at home and have a derringer amidst the penknife, keys and change. Now, if I'm correct, I think the 442/642 has taken over that role. I think even I would be surprised how many Centennial-style revolvers dwell in American pockets amidst the other personal items.

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  #54  
Old 07-30-2020, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by roo_ster View Post
target wadcutters for the win. have to use them for a while until i heal up.
I wouldn’t feel under gunned compared to a 380 or 32
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  #55  
Old 07-30-2020, 05:20 PM
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I think my hand hurts at the mention of it. But they are good little revolvers. I have to have mine in steel as I can be recoil sensitive.

But the airweights keep calling me.
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  #56  
Old 07-30-2020, 06:32 PM
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Default Try try

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Originally Posted by Struckat View Post
I think my hand hurts at the mention of it. But they are good little revolvers. I have to have mine in steel as I can be recoil sensitive.

But the airweights keep calling me.
They are not bad with 38spl. Work up from target wad cutters. Work down from bigger to smaller grips.
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Old 07-30-2020, 07:21 PM
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Much lighter than my Model 60. No spur to get hung up and I was even fortunate enough to find a matching Corona mask. What’s not to like 😷🙂
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  #58  
Old 07-30-2020, 11:48 PM
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I have two, one is my constant backup companion in a pocket holster, in my hip pocket. The other is NIB. Both are pre lock too. When one wears out, I have a replacement. BTW, the mate I carry with the M442 is a M640 +P+ when it's too hot to carry and hide a 1911 under a "T" shirt. Everyone should own one

De Oppresso Liber

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  #59  
Old 07-31-2020, 04:45 AM
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My 642 resides in my pants pocket frequently. Changed the factory grips for Pacmaers. To better control recoil I've been carrying 148 grain wadcutter ammo, makes shooting much more pleasant for this 79 year old. The 148 grain wadcutters have an excellent reputation as a defensive load.
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  #60  
Old 07-31-2020, 01:50 PM
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Rats .... I thought this was going to be a thread on the Olds 442 .... A very cool ride.
I used to own a silver Oldsmobile - a 642 if you will.
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  #61  
Old 08-01-2020, 10:58 AM
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In my opinion there is no better "carry gun" I'm an older guy and have no problem with recoil, however I stay away from the P-P, and with some practice 10 yd accuracy is pretty good, Highly Recommend. jmop




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  #62  
Old 08-04-2020, 06:16 PM
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Default Thoughts on the 442

My NO lock 442 is my pocket CC gun with Uncle Mikes #3 holster & Federal HST +P 130gr (the one that’s factory leaded backwards) makes a big hole in the bad guy (bigger than wadcutters)and it won’t punish your hand.
I wipe it down with Ballistol every 3 months & never an issue with rust.


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  #63  
Old 08-04-2020, 08:06 PM
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The 442 (or 642) is a great little gun. Doesn't get much more simple.

A pic of mine is attached, alongside my M38.

When carried, the 442 is loaded with Federal HST 130gr:

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/t...-38-special-p/

With a load of golden saber in a zeta6 jclip:

J-CLIP™ Speed Loader for 38SP/357 J-Frame Size Revolvers - Zeta6™
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  #64  
Old 08-07-2020, 03:46 PM
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Got her out to the range and she ain't no one hole shooter, but to put 5 center of mass, it'll do the job every day. Love this little gun! I shot a cylinder of Gold Dots followed by about 70 rounds of 158gr SWC and 10 rounds of 158gr jacketed soft points, all over 5.3gr of SR4756. I love the soft points! I've got a set of Wolff springs coming, so we'll see how that works out.
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  #65  
Old 08-07-2020, 04:08 PM
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I have a 442 and 642. Never found a reason to not like either one. They aren't fun to shoot but they aren't supposed to be fun guns.
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  #66  
Old 08-07-2020, 05:08 PM
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With a good holster like a Mika nothing slips in or, more importantly, out of a pants pocket as easily as either a 442 or a 642.
It’s light and unnoticed until needed.
I’ll sometimes slip it into a desantis ankle holster or belt holster in the winter.
Main gun or a BUG, it just works.
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  #67  
Old 08-07-2020, 05:31 PM
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Default Barami grip

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Originally Posted by PALADIN85020 View Post
The 442 and 642 are my favorite EDC guns. Reliable, simple, and effective. I use Barami hip-grips with them, and carry either one in my Levi's right front pocket. With shirt tail out, they are invisible. Handy and quick, no holster required. Lightweight - you will forget they are even there (until you need them, of course).

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Old 08-07-2020, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by gunny4053 View Post
I'm thinking about a new J frame, and the 442 looks pretty good. What are your experiences with them? The one I looked at lacked the Hilary Hole, so that's a plus already.
Hi I bought the custom shop model about a year ago I love it I can hit six inch steel @ 10yds. no problem best trigger on a small revolver I have ever tried. Very easy to conceal
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  #69  
Old 08-07-2020, 06:02 PM
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As usual, Hog Blue and I think alike. I'd go with the 642 although I own both a 642 & 442. I've carried one or another J frame for more than 45 years. Since 1998, it's been the custom 642 in my avatar either primary or backup. Haywood, if it's in good shape, buy the used 642 and don't look back.
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  #70  
Old 08-07-2020, 06:31 PM
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Default Good self defense gun

I kept one in my desk drawer a my office for 29 years.
Took it to the range a couple of times. Nice revolver, no complaints. No Hillary hole, a plus.

I put a cocobolo pair of "Secret Service" grips on it. A little better grip for my medium sized hand.
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  #71  
Old 08-07-2020, 06:49 PM
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I just found out about the Barami grip and had to buy one.
Desantis has a Hip Grip. A little more hand filling
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  #72  
Old 08-07-2020, 07:45 PM
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Like my 442-2. I like it very much. My first J-frame snubbie. Had a trigger job done to reduce trigger pull a bit. Carry infrequently because I work in a gun-free government site, but otherwise it is my pocket carry in a Desantis Nemesis with Critical Defense. But I am intrigued by trying WC ammo. Whose make and what weight bullet?
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  #73  
Old 08-07-2020, 08:02 PM
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But I am intrigued by trying WC ammo. Whose make and what weight bullet?
148gr. Federal Match is often recommended, but I haven't tried it. I have tried Fiocchi and it worked well in my gun. S&B didn't do so well, showing possible signs of keyholing. Try whatever WC you can get and keep an eye out for keyholing. 148gr WC are relatively low velocity, and some may not stabilize very well out of a 2" barrel.
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Old 08-07-2020, 08:20 PM
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Default Keyholing May be good

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148gr. Federal Match is often recommended, but I haven't tried it. I have tried Fiocchi and it worked well in my gun. S&B didn't do so well, showing possible signs of keyholing. Try whatever WC you can get and keep an eye out for keyholing. 148gr WC are relatively low velocity, and some may not stabilize very well out of a 2" barrel.
I think it was the British that came up with a 200 grain load for the S&W 38 that tumbled on impact. That was also the original idea of the 55 grain 5.56 bullet from the M16A1
I use double ended 148 grain wadcutters in my snub noses. I haven’t seen signs of tumbling.
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Old 08-07-2020, 08:45 PM
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I think it was the British that came up with a 200 grain load for the S&W 38 that tumbled on impact. That was also the original idea of the 55 grain 5.56 bullet from the M16A1
I use double ended 148 grain wadcutters in my snub noses. I haven’t seen signs of tumbling.
Just my opinion, but at rifle velocities, yeah, tumbling can be a good way to maximize tissue disruption. At pistol velocities, not so much. The advantage of the 148gr WC is that it can cut a full-caliber wound channel thanks to its flat meplate, and still give adequate penetration while mitigating the risk of overpenetration. I think tumbling in that case would reduce effectiveness. I don't have any knowledge of the 200gr load you mentioned. Maybe it worked, maybe not. I don't know. I'm just going off what I know based on the research I've done into terminal ballistics.

As for tumbling, I think it definitely depends on the ammo/gun combo. In my case, S&B tumbled, but in another gun it might be fine. Fiocchi was fine in my gun, but maybe in someone else's it won't be. Just one of those things you have to check for in your particular ammo/gun combo.

Again, just my opinion.
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  #76  
Old 08-07-2020, 08:53 PM
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Best thing since sliced bread !
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Old 08-07-2020, 09:26 PM
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My thoughts on my 442:


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Old 08-07-2020, 09:57 PM
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Love mine I’ll never be without it!
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Old 08-07-2020, 10:05 PM
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A little over three weeks, and 77 replies (not including mine), overwhelming positive.

Yeah, the 442 is a good choice. Rest easy!
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Old 08-07-2020, 10:09 PM
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I have two 642’s. One stays in my wife’s vehicle, the other stays in mine. They are what I carry when I’m not carrying 😉. Just the handiest guns ever I think.
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Old 08-07-2020, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunny4053 View Post
Got her out to the range and she ain't no one hole shooter, but to put 5 center of mass, it'll do the job every day. Love this little gun! I shot a cylinder of Gold Dots followed by about 70 rounds of 158gr SWC and 10 rounds of 158gr jacketed soft points, all over 5.3gr of SR4756. I love the soft points! I've got a set of Wolff springs coming, so we'll see how that works out.
I bought my 442 just to see if I’d like it, it was on sale cheap. It doesn’t have the moon clips, silver cylinders, and it does have the “hole.” But I love mine too! Congrats!

Thoughts on the 442-c507f601-17d3-41dc-9489-d0b137e40500-jpg

I’ve never shot mine at paper, so I’m not sure if it’s a one hole shooter or not, but it hits my 4” plates with ease. That’s impressive!

I got the Apex springs. It was a huge difference. I’m sure the Wolf springs will do you right.

Again, congrats!
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Old 08-08-2020, 10:57 AM
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Love all the Smith and Wesson revolvers. I own only 5 at the moment 3 are J frames. Don't know why everybody gets so wound up about the locks? 4 of my 5 had locks. They still look like they have locks, and they do not have locks. Literally a 15 minute job, no damage to the gun and easy to put back if you feel the need. Although I do not know why you would do that. Trade, or God forbid, a sale? Here's a link to a good video:
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Old 08-08-2020, 12:07 PM
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Default 442

It’s been said, but even with the Goodyear’s the recoil is pretty stiff.

The 442 was bought for my wife, to be fair she barely weighs 95 pounds (soaking wet with her pockets full of rocks), and the recoil was just too much for her. I don’t mind it, but the heavy DA only trigger is a chore to pull and hard to keep it on target without lots of practice. You should be doing that anyway for your EDC, but that’s another story.

Consider the ugly humpback Model 49 or 649, I own two and love them both, smoother action IMHO, no snagging like the 442, better trigger, and SA is available when you want/need it.

To each their own...
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Old 08-08-2020, 03:25 PM
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I carried a 642 for a long time until I got my Glock 43. I ended up selling the 642 after that since I never carried it. I think the 442/642 is a great little revolver. I do wish that S&W would have made them with a pinned front site so you could swap out to whatever front sight that you want. I think a set of Crimson Trace grips is a great accessory for one.
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Old 08-08-2020, 03:32 PM
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I bought a 442 in stainless (not nickel) 30 years ago as a backup and have carried it as a CCW gun almost everyday since retirement. It has a CT grip laser sight and is perfect for an ankle carry. Love this little gun.
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Old 08-08-2020, 04:12 PM
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Consider the ugly humpback Model 49 or 649, I own two and love them both, smoother action IMHO, no snagging like the 442, better trigger, and SA is available when you want/need it.
While there can definitely be variances between individual examples, the centennial as a whole should have the better comparative action.

I’ve never heard someone complain about a 442 snagging.

It’s fairly contrived to come up with a realistic civilian self-defense scenario where single-action is warranted or actually needed. The overall drawbacks of that capability in a snub usually far outweigh the benefits.

From Massad Ayoob and Grant Cunningham... Massad Ayoob: Hammer or… “-Less?” | The Daily Caller
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Old 08-08-2020, 05:36 PM
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While there can definitely be variances between individual examples, the centennial as a whole should have the better comparative action.

I’ve never heard someone complain about a 442 snagging.

It’s fairly contrived to come up with a realistic civilian self-defense scenario where single-action is warranted or actually needed. The overall drawbacks of that capability in a snub usually far outweigh the benefits.

From Massad Ayoob and Grant Cunningham... Massad Ayoob: Hammer or… “-Less?” | The Daily Caller
Wow, I guess my opinion wasn’t worth writing, thanks for straightening me out, on the other hand...

Why would the centennial have a smoother action...oh yeah, your opinion, kinda like I have an opinion among thousands of others.

Second, I suppose I should have said similar to the 442, instead of like the 442, what I obviously meant was neither are prone to snag by design, since they are virtually identical.

Contrived? Really? I find that one especially insulting. Mr. Ayoob’s opinions aside, there are many people who find single action a valuable option, particularly for accuracy. But then who cares about accuracy in self defense or any other shooting scenario, I mean that’s just silly, what was I thinking?
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Old 08-08-2020, 05:59 PM
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Contrived? Really? I find that one especially insulting.
You're the only one I see being insulting in this thread.
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Old 08-08-2020, 07:02 PM
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Wow, I guess my opinion wasn’t worth writing, thanks for straightening me out, on the other hand...

Why would the centennial have a smoother action...oh yeah, your opinion, kinda like I have an opinion among thousands of others.

Second, I suppose I should have said similar to the 442, instead of like the 442, what I obviously meant was neither are prone to snag by design, since they are virtually identical.

Contrived? Really? I find that one especially insulting. Mr. Ayoob’s opinions aside, there are many people who find single action a valuable option, particularly for accuracy. But then who cares about accuracy in self defense or any other shooting scenario, I mean that’s just silly, what was I thinking?
No insult intended. Just a differences of opinion.

I think some people just like seeing the hammer move. Based on comments I’ve come across on other forums, it’s as if it kind of lets them “see” their trigger press and perhaps why they believe the action is better on a gun with an exposed hammer vs an internal one.

As to why the Centennials may actually have better actions, it was in the article I shared...

Grant Cunningham, master wheelgun-smith and author of the excellent Gun Digest Book of the Revolver, writes the following at his blog at Personal security training and advice - www.GrantCunningham.com www.GrantCunningham.com “… the Centennial models simply have better actions! The enclosed hammer Centennial models have slightly different sear geometry than do the exposed hammer models, which gives them a pull that is more even—more linear—than the models with hammer spurs. For the savvy shooter it’s a noticeable difference, making the Centennial a bit easier to shoot well.”

Grant continues, “The Centennials also have one less part than the other models: since they have no exposed hammer, they don’t have (nor do they need) the hammer-block safety common to all other ‘J’ frames. That part, which is quite long and rides in a close-fitting slot machined into the sideplate, is difficult to make perfectly smooth. Even in the best-case scenario, it will always add just a bit of friction to the action. Not having the part to begin with gives the Centennial a ‘leg up’ in action feel. (In fact, at one point in time a common part of an ‘action job’ was to remove this safety, in the same way that some ‘gunsmiths’ would remove the firing-pin block on a Colt Series 80 auto pistol. Today we know better!) So, if your criterion is action quality, the choice is clear: the enclosed hammer Centennial series is your best bet!”

And in terms of single-action capability, Ayoob mentioned it in the article as well. I would add extreme close-quarter and contact distance functionality to the reasons why an enclosed hammer makes more sense. Michael de Bethencourt and Grant Cunningham also advocate that defensive revolvers should be DAO since single action capability presents more overall problems than it does benefit, especially with pocket snub-nosed revolvers. There’s plenty of articles out there going over the issue in detail. There may very well be some instructors who recommend it, but none that I’m aware of or follow and I think there are very valid reasons why that’s the case. It’s obviously yours or anyone else’s prerogative to disagree.
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Old 08-10-2020, 09:50 AM
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Default I have 442 and wife has 542

We bought a pair of J frames no locks in 2006. I have a 442 and my wife has a 642. I installed Crimson Trace lazer lights on both to take the guess work out of operating them.
They are loaded with +P ammo and are permanent residents of our cars.
Great little revolvers but they are not plinkers.
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Old 08-10-2020, 10:07 AM
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We bought a pair of J frames no locks in 2006. I have a 442 and my wife has a 642. I installed Crimson Trace lazer lights on both to take the guess work out of operating them.
They are loaded with +P ammo and are permanent residents of our cars.
Great little revolvers but they are not plinkers.
I practice at the Range with mine. With the right grips you can enjoy shooting and carrying. I can easily go through 200 rounds in an hour. That’s not just spraying ammo. I’m shooting at a 9” plate 30 ‘ away, getting decent groups. I just shot a 442 yesterday, didn’t think to take target pictures.
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Old 08-10-2020, 10:16 AM
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No insult intended. Just a differences of opinion.

I think some people just like seeing the hammer move. Based on comments I’ve come across on other forums, it’s as if it kind of lets them “see” their trigger press and perhaps why they believe the action is better on a gun with an exposed hammer vs an internal one.

As to why the Centennials may actually have better actions, it was in the article I shared...

Grant Cunningham, master wheelgun-smith and author of the excellent Gun Digest Book of the Revolver, writes the following at his blog at Personal security training and advice - www.GrantCunningham.com www.GrantCunningham.com “… the Centennial models simply have better actions! The enclosed hammer Centennial models have slightly different sear geometry than do the exposed hammer models, which gives them a pull that is more even—more linear—than the models with hammer spurs. For the savvy shooter it’s a noticeable difference, making the Centennial a bit easier to shoot well.”

Grant continues, “The Centennials also have one less part than the other models: since they have no exposed hammer, they don’t have (nor do they need) the hammer-block safety common to all other ‘J’ frames. That part, which is quite long and rides in a close-fitting slot machined into the sideplate, is difficult to make perfectly smooth. Even in the best-case scenario, it will always add just a bit of friction to the action. Not having the part to begin with gives the Centennial a ‘leg up’ in action feel. (In fact, at one point in time a common part of an ‘action job’ was to remove this safety, in the same way that some ‘gunsmiths’ would remove the firing-pin block on a Colt Series 80 auto pistol. Today we know better!) So, if your criterion is action quality, the choice is clear: the enclosed hammer Centennial series is your best bet!”

And in terms of single-action capability, Ayoob mentioned it in the article as well. I would add extreme close-quarter and contact distance functionality to the reasons why an enclosed hammer makes more sense. Michael de Bethencourt and Grant Cunningham also advocate that defensive revolvers should be DAO since single action capability presents more overall problems than it does benefit, especially with pocket snub-nosed revolvers. There’s plenty of articles out there going over the issue in detail. There may very well be some instructors who recommend it, but none that I’m aware of or follow and I think there are very valid reasons why that’s the case. It’s obviously yours or anyone else’s prerogative to disagree.
Reading those Authors, and others, got me to shooting double action only. I practice at the Range with my 442 getting good groups at 30’ on a 9” plate. After many dry fires and a lot of Range time, the action is smooth and easy to shoot accurately. I practiced with my 36 last month and found I am just as accurate if not more, shooting double action.
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Old 08-11-2020, 12:01 AM
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An 8lb hammer spring, 14lb rebound spring, very smooth and minute of 9" pie plate all day long. It's scary, I've carried it in a pocket almost daily since day one. I love it more each day. Thanks guys....and gals, this has been one of my better purchases in a long time. I think the Glock 26 is getting jealous, I may have to take her out for a day.
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Old 08-13-2020, 11:13 AM
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Different strokes & all, but some folks rely on the J-frame for more than just bad-breath range self-defense or backup.

And while I practice most all my revolver shooting double-action, a single-action option will be superior to DA for longer range shots requiring more precision. Especially with the J-frames (relative to K, L, & N), given their lockwork. The physics of the action and the human interaction with the mechanical system dictate that. I advocate training on DA extensively and getting your DA technique as good as reasonable, but SA technique also benefits from DA trigger time. And then polishing off with some SA technique allows the user to get the most out of his gear.

If his interviews are to be believed (I think they are), the thing about Ayoob that you must consider is that he totes the J-frame mostly as a backup to a primary service auto. The service auto differs depending on his travel, competition, and training schedule (with the 1911 being his preferred primary carry). If you have a service auto there is less need for your backup to have longer-ranged capability. Same way the availability of a rifle makes handgun choice less important.

Other folks tote a J-frame as their primary by choice or necessity. In that case, being able to shoot a bit farther with more precision is not something to dismiss lightly. Heck, my 638 is often my "woods gun," and loaded with HCWC or HC LWSC. I am not going to deliberately give up range capability that SA fire enables vs targets way out there beyond what most think of as snubby range.
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Old 09-19-2020, 11:20 AM
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Love all the Smith and Wesson revolvers. I own only 5 at the moment 3 are J frames. Don't know why everybody gets so wound up about the locks? 4 of my 5 had locks. They still look like they have locks, and they do not have locks. Literally a 15 minute job, no damage to the gun and easy to put back if you feel the need. Although I do not know why you would do that. Trade, or God forbid, a sale? Here's a link to a good video: S&W Internal Lock Removal - YouTube
I feel it needs to be said: following this video is a terrible idea. If you’re going to remove the lock, remove the entire lock. Don’t leave the lock barrel so it looks like the lock works, but doesn’t. A future owner of your gun (sorry, but none of us will be here forever) may not know the lock doesn’t work.

You can fill the hole with a plug, or just leave it empty. Regardless, it should not look operational if it isn’t.
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Old 09-19-2020, 12:47 PM
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Smart move. Always a good option when you need something super light. No IL is nice.

I often pocket carry my 342PD when I am wearing light, summer clothes, riding a bike or I don’t feel like wearing a belt and holster, especially when the combo weighs more than the gun.
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Old 09-19-2020, 01:18 PM
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Is it my favorite S&W to shoot? Not by a longshot. But it sure gets carried more than the rest, especially in the summer.

I too carry the excellent HST Micro 130gr flying ashtray, but I won't disparage other choices (except perhaps FMJ).

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Old 09-20-2020, 01:54 AM
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Bought mine in 1995 and still carry it today.The finish is very well worn but it still carries and shoots like a champ.I would buy another without any hesitation.
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Old 09-20-2020, 02:57 AM
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I'm thinking about a new J frame, and the 442 looks pretty good.
C’mon guys....help him out. Yes or no?
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Old 09-20-2020, 11:45 AM
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C’mon guys....help him out. Yes or no?
LOL!!! I think mine was the only negative review (other than recoil-related) and it was only because I bought it on-line instead of locally. Had I found it in a local shop I would have quickly detected that something was wrong with it and possibly gone with a different one instead.

The take-away from my bad (and rather costly) experience was more about the risks of buying on-line than anything else.
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