Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >

Notices

S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-30-2020, 03:38 PM
DHernandez DHernandez is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times in 4 Posts
Default S&W CS címon...

I know this is my first post and itís gonna be negative, but Iím gonna vent my frustration. I purchased a brand new 629 classic from a Smith distributor. I took it to the range, factory Hornady .44 ammo, cocked the hammer, pulled the trigger and boom. As expected, I did that again and nothing. One more time, nothing. Then upon inspection I noticed the cylinder can spin freely with the hammer down. I open the cylinder and see the two rounds that didnít fire have primer strikes right on the edge of the primer and casing. Thank goodness they didnít go off because the bullet wouldnít have been lined up with the barrel. So I closed the cylinder and it locks up fine. Mustíve been an anomaly. I pull double action and boom. Then I check and the cylinder is free spinning again. So there ends the day. I contact S&W they send the slip and I send in the nearly $1k gun. Next, after a couple weeks of no word, I contact them only to hear it could be 8 weeks to get my gun back. Really? So I canít when fire a full cylinder of ammo on a brand new gun and they want 8 weeks to fix it? Thatís not good CS. So yes, Iím venting. Iím a S&W fan, Iíve owned Anacondas in the past but when I got the itch for a .44 again I went with the 629. I know S&W is a great company but this CS is not good.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #2  
Old 07-30-2020, 04:06 PM
ziggidy ziggidy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 10
Likes: 17
Liked 3 Times in 1 Post
Default

I just sent back my 9mm EZ and cs said it will take 6 - 8 weeks because they have a partial plant shut down and working with a skeleton crew.

It could be the end of September before I get it back. I have had to send stuff back to Ruger and their turn around was always a week to 10 days at best.

This was my first purchase of a S&W product......prob the last.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 07-30-2020, 04:18 PM
tlawler's Avatar
tlawler tlawler is offline
US Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: South West Florida
Posts: 2,470
Likes: 2,932
Liked 5,878 Times in 1,588 Posts
Default

That’s a big reason why so many of us seek out the real classic S&W revolvers of a bygone era. Most of mine are P&R and at least pre-MIM.
__________________
USS Brewton FF1086
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-30-2020, 04:36 PM
ziggidy ziggidy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 10
Likes: 17
Liked 3 Times in 1 Post
Default

I am sure S&W knows about the issues with ammo and the 9mm EZ. I would think a big name company like S&W would have a disclosure stating that specific types of ammo will not work in the EZ handguns. The list would be long. So far no 124gr, 147gr and SD do not work consistently.

The EZ is definately not a EDC piece.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-30-2020, 04:44 PM
colt_saa's Avatar
colt_saa colt_saa is offline
SWCA Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 1,539
Liked 14,998 Times in 4,232 Posts
Default

Welcome to the Forum

Lots of good conversations occur here all the time. Feel free to join in

Smith & Wesson is handicapped by the China Virus Crisis just like all Companies and Agencies right now.

My bank has temporarily closed the branch 2 blocks from my house and I have to drive to the next branch to do my banking.

I recently had to wait almost 3 months for a small parts order from an on-line vendor. Even though there were zero employees coming to work for 6 or 8 or 10 weeks, their website still took the orders. I had to wait for them to get caught up

None of this is bad customer service, it is just a product of this once in a Century situation that we are in.

I know it is all temporary and will go back to normal eventually

Be patient, they will get your revolver back to you as fast as is possible.
__________________
"Acta non verba"
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 07-30-2020, 04:44 PM
StephenWhoDat's Avatar
StephenWhoDat StephenWhoDat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Southeast Louisiana
Posts: 319
Likes: 1,243
Liked 464 Times in 169 Posts
Default

In their defense, they are VERY shorthanded right now due to COVID. Their CS is usually better than the current 6-8 weeks they are taking for warranty issues. I just got one of my M&Ps back after sending it in for a warranty night sight replacement. Something simple that should only take a couple days to repair. Got my firearm back exactly 7 weeks from the day I shipped it. Try to cut them a little bit of slack during the current shutdowns and employees being quarantined. I understand your frustrations, but rest assured, their CS quality and speedy production will bounce back once all this is behind us.
__________________
S.D.M.F.-God Bless Our Troops!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-30-2020, 04:45 PM
kraynky's Avatar
kraynky kraynky is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Central Kentucky
Posts: 2,234
Likes: 8,662
Liked 3,563 Times in 1,362 Posts
Default

The whole cotton-pickin world is Topsy Turvey right now. Nothing is as it should be. By the way, that is not racist, it's what my Daddy always said instead of cursing. I remember asking him as a young'n what it meant, and he said he didn't really know either, but he'd picked enough cotton to last him a lifetime as a boy.

Anyway, most manufacturer's are still trying to keep up with "never seen before" demands for their goods and services. They are only hurting themselves by not doing it right the first time. A lot of new gun owners are going to be frustrated like you and buy some other brand next time around.

If I am able to buy any more S&W's (meaning if the prices come back to normal or I find a deal), I'm buying pre-IL builds, and preferably one as old as I am, or close (I'm a late 50's model, as in '58)

Buying new is not a guarantee that you won't have trouble, and that goes with anything. Buying used is certainly not a guarantee, but hopefully the bugs have been worked out, or it was built right the first time.

I don't know if they would refund your money upon request, but it might be worth a try. Taking your time, you should be able to buy an older 629, or maybe even a Ruger Redhawk.

I hate it that you spent that much money and never even got to empty a full cylinder down the barrel. That's about the most frustrating thing that can happen to a gun enthusiast. I've had to send one new S&W back to the Mothership, back in the mid 90's. I had to send a Ruger back THREE times in 2001, before they got it right.

Hang in there, and hang out around here see if you can learn what to look for, iff'n it happens to come back messed up, might be a simple DIY repair. I'd give a gunsmith $50 bucks or more if it kept me from having to wait 2 more months for a return.

Hopefully you've got something else you can shoot to get the frustration out of your system. Welcome aboard from Kentucky by the way! Did you happen to take any pictures? We do like our pictures here. Wishing you the best of luck and a speedy return.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-30-2020, 04:53 PM
Engineer1911's Avatar
Engineer1911 Engineer1911 is offline
US Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Augusta, GA
Posts: 5,474
Likes: 5,753
Liked 4,984 Times in 2,258 Posts
Default

I sent a M29 and a M629 back to S&W. It took 7 weeks for a repair estimate to arrive, than 8 weeks for repair on the M629. The M29 is still "in service department" after 10 weeks. A Redfield scope is at a repair company going on the 5th month. Welcome to the Covid World of Service.

I'm satisfied that repairs will be made, and I haven't had the disease. There are spare 44 mags in the vault and more than 1 scope on the shelf. Thank you Washington, DC.
__________________
S&WHF 366
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-30-2020, 07:06 PM
L-2's Avatar
L-2 L-2 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nevada
Posts: 310
Likes: 390
Liked 192 Times in 93 Posts
Default

As I recall, here is my experienced wait times when various firearms were sent away (all approximate; includes shipping/transit time; various work/reasons for return):

Marlin: 4 weeks
Springfield-Armory: 6 weeks
Glock: 1 week
Guncrafter Industries: 2 months
Kimber: 3 weeks
Ruger: 3 weeks
S&W: 2.5 months
Remington (local gunsmith): 1 month

Brands I never needed to send back: Mossberg, SIG, Bravo Company

Advice: no whining; hope whatever gets fixed right the first time (doesn't always happen); have another gun to use/carry/shoot.

Edited to add:
This isn't a NASCAR pit stop.

When receiving a firearm at a company try to picture some things which will occur:

-Receiving Dept.; many items and boxes are arriving. Each box is subsequently opened; quantities & condition are noted.

-Depending on what's received, items are then detailed for delivery to various depts./individuals. These locations may or may not be in the same building or even the same city.

-Firearms' info needs to be logged into a database. This could be a different dept., other than Receiving, to do this.

-Eventually a Tech/Gunsmith looks at one's firearm. If possible, a diagnosis is quickly made; if not possible, further exploratory work is done to make a diagnosis; requested work is also checked/noted according to any documentation included with the firearm.

-Parts may need to be ordered during the initial diagnosis. Whether these parts are in-stock/readily available is determined.

-There's usually a backlog of work already going on. When one's firearm is actually worked-on may be several days or even weeks.

-Eventually, one's firearm then actually gets worked-on. During the work, if the firearm needs more specialized work, like refinishing, that may be a separate person or dept. (or even another company) to do the work.

-If the firearm later is determined to need replacing, another person may need to approve/disapprove/decide. That person may be on leave or on vacation at that moment (most people aren't gone for more than 2 weeks, but it depends on the management structure if there's an alternate decision-maker).

-Communication with the firearm owner may occur, whether by phone or email, hopefully not U.S. mail.

-Test firing may be done individually or in batches. Some types of work may also done in batches (hopefully each week but could be every other week and may due to what tools/machinery is needed and available).

-Eventually, a firearm is ready for return shipping. Manufacturers aren't bound by overnight shipping. Handguns might take 3 days; long guns may take a week (more or less). If it has to go through an FFL, that FFL may not receive it and notify the owner immediately and could take another day or two.

All this could take days/weeks, not minutes.
__________________
66-2/642-1/640Pro/627Pro/LComp

Last edited by L-2; 07-30-2020 at 08:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 07-30-2020, 09:11 PM
garddogg56's Avatar
garddogg56 garddogg56 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Maine
Posts: 775
Likes: 1,857
Liked 1,105 Times in 435 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggidy View Post
I just sent back my 9mm EZ and cs said it will take 6 - 8 weeks because they have a partial plant shut down and working with a skeleton crew.

It could be the end of September before I get it back. I have had to send stuff back to Ruger and their turn around was always a week to 10 days at best.

This was my first purchase of a S&W product......prob the last.
Cheer up Ziggthey had my edc five monthsit cost me 148 buck and they did NOTHINGI'll NEVER buy another new S&W till they move out of mASS....
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #11  
Old 07-30-2020, 09:21 PM
armorer951's Avatar
armorer951 armorer951 is offline
SWCA Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Evansville, Indiana USA
Posts: 4,806
Likes: 252
Liked 6,772 Times in 2,373 Posts
Default

Great. Another example of a revolver that left the factory without a proper, thorough, final inspection and test firing. Sad
__________________
Ret LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #12  
Old 07-30-2020, 09:45 PM
lhump1961's Avatar
lhump1961 lhump1961 is online now
US Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Great Midwest
Posts: 2,376
Likes: 1,486
Liked 2,067 Times in 895 Posts
Default

The old guns had problems, too. Don't get me wrong...I prefer the older revolvers, but it seems to me one of 4 things happens to all guns:

1) never had a problem.
2) had a problem but sent in and fixed.
3) couldn't be fixed so taken out of circulation by S&W and replaced for customer.
4) lost in a freak boating accident.

Bottom line is my theory says all the bugs have long since been worked out of the older stuff that had bugs. Once any problems in a quality gun have been addressed they are usually good to go for many, many years. JMHO.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #13  
Old 07-30-2020, 09:47 PM
DHernandez DHernandez is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times in 4 Posts
Default 629

I understand the being patient part. Iíve been in the firearms world for 30 years. I donít like that a brand new firearm canít handle 6 rounds... QC mustíve failed. First, fortune it didnít blow up on the partial primer strikes and second, good thing I wasnít a novice pulling this out for home defense without testing it and it failing... This is like driving a new car off the lot and it doesnít make it home. Itís either getting fixed quickly or they are exchanging for another car. I get that things break, Iíve worked for Uncle Sam for a long time and broken a thing or two. And I get the covid thing, just expected this to work the first time. Colts were way overpriced but they worked...

Is this a common issue? What would cause this?

Last edited by DHernandez; 07-30-2020 at 09:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #14  
Old 07-31-2020, 01:32 AM
GerSan69 GerSan69 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: metro Phoenix
Posts: 2,239
Likes: 10,595
Liked 2,503 Times in 1,007 Posts
Default

Hi D, welcome to the forum. Sorry your intro is a lemon. Most of the S&W products are superior items. That's no comfort, but your case is unusual, despite what you may hear.
I think there's an issue with the cylinder stop, stop spring, or possibly even the trigger. I have no idea how much you know about the innards and how they work, so in the interest of covering it just in case:
The stop stays in the up position all the time, held in place by a small spring, and locking the cylinder from turning. When the trigger is pulled, a "lip" on the forward edge pulls the stop down, unlocking the cylinder and allowing the hand, which is also attached to the trigger but on the other end, to turn the cylinder to the next chamber. That forward part of the trigger slips off the stop very quickly after the trigger pulls it down, allowing the stop to "scrape" or slide along the surface of the cylinder until it hits the stop indentation for that next chamber and stops the turning. I think the stop spring is either damaged or even missing. Not sure, but definitely related to that stop piece.
Again, glad to have you here. Most of us are heavily into the S&W brand, products and history, so if there's pretty much anything you're interested in S&W-wise, someone here likely "wrote the book." Best of luck with your firearm.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-31-2020, 10:27 AM
Pine_Worker Pine_Worker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 721
Likes: 954
Liked 762 Times in 318 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L-2 View Post
As I recall, here is my experienced wait times when various firearms were sent away (all approximate; includes shipping/transit time; various work/reasons for return):

Marlin: 4 weeks
Springfield-Armory: 6 weeks
Glock: 1 week
Guncrafter Industries: 2 months
Kimber: 3 weeks
Ruger: 3 weeks
S&W: 2.5 months
Remington (local gunsmith): 1 month

Brands I never needed to send back: Mossberg, SIG, Bravo Company

Advice: no whining; hope whatever gets fixed right the first time (doesn't always happen); have another gun to use/carry/shoot.

Edited to add:
This isn't a NASCAR pit stop.

When receiving a firearm at a company try to picture some things which will occur:

-Receiving Dept.; many items and boxes are arriving. Each box is subsequently opened; quantities & condition are noted.

-Depending on what's received, items are then detailed for delivery to various depts./individuals. These locations may or may not be in the same building or even the same city.

-Firearms' info needs to be logged into a database. This could be a different dept., other than Receiving, to do this.

-Eventually a Tech/Gunsmith looks at one's firearm. If possible, a diagnosis is quickly made; if not possible, further exploratory work is done to make a diagnosis; requested work is also checked/noted according to any documentation included with the firearm.

-Parts may need to be ordered during the initial diagnosis. Whether these parts are in-stock/readily available is determined.

-There's usually a backlog of work already going on. When one's firearm is actually worked-on may be several days or even weeks.

-Eventually, one's firearm then actually gets worked-on. During the work, if the firearm needs more specialized work, like refinishing, that may be a separate person or dept. (or even another company) to do the work.

-If the firearm later is determined to need replacing, another person may need to approve/disapprove/decide. That person may be on leave or on vacation at that moment (most people aren't gone for more than 2 weeks, but it depends on the management structure if there's an alternate decision-maker).

-Communication with the firearm owner may occur, whether by phone or email, hopefully not U.S. mail.

-Test firing may be done individually or in batches. Some types of work may also done in batches (hopefully each week but could be every other week and may due to what tools/machinery is needed and available).

-Eventually, a firearm is ready for return shipping. Manufacturers aren't bound by overnight shipping. Handguns might take 3 days; long guns may take a week (more or less). If it has to go through an FFL, that FFL may not receive it and notify the owner immediately and could take another day or two.

All this could take days/weeks, not minutes.
Well said L-2, well said. People are used to instant this and instant that. You never know what will upset the system.
__________________
Pine_Worker
NRA Life Member
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #16  
Old 07-31-2020, 05:33 PM
GaryS's Avatar
GaryS GaryS is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 9,277
Likes: 7,024
Liked 13,231 Times in 5,212 Posts
Default

One thing the China Virus seems to have done to a lot of people is turn them into cry babies.

Every part of the US economy is affected, mostly for the worse. Some companies are closed, some are open but can't get products. Some can't get components to make their products.

Some businesses are closed forever. Which means that an owner has lost his investment and his employees have lost their jobs and will have to find new livelihoods. Some gun stores are closing because they have sold out of everything and can't get new stock in. Which is bad for all of us.

Everything is taking longer. Like another poster here, I ordered from a gun parts vendor and waited two months for the parts. The net effect was zero.

Oh, I sent a gun in to S&W and they have determined it's unrepairable. They are sending me a new gun, but it will be a few weeks before they can do that.

Since I have more than one gun, it's not even a blip on my radar.

If you have a job, aren't sick, haven't lost a loved one, and your biggest problem is getting a gun fixed, count yourself lucky.
__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #17  
Old 07-31-2020, 05:39 PM
jsbethel jsbethel is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: KY
Posts: 1,784
Likes: 10
Liked 1,436 Times in 745 Posts
Default

It's been said that S&W is moving their service center out of Springfield.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-31-2020, 05:41 PM
smoothshooter smoothshooter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 680
Likes: 24
Liked 629 Times in 302 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by colt_saa View Post
Welcome to the Forum

Lots of good conversations occur here all the time. Feel free to join in

Smith & Wesson is handicapped by the China Virus Crisis just like all Companies and Agencies right now.

My bank has temporarily closed the branch 2 blocks from my house and I have to drive to the next branch to do my banking.

I recently had to wait almost 3 months for a small parts order from an on-line vendor. Even though there were zero employees coming to work for 6 or 8 or 10 weeks, their website still took the orders. I had to wait for them to get caught up

None of this is bad customer service, it is just a product of this once in a Century situation that we are in.

I know it is all temporary and will go back to normal eventually

Be patient, they will get your revolver back to you as fast as is possible.
Things will never be like they were before.
Prepare for the New Normal.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-31-2020, 06:03 PM
DHernandez DHernandez is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
One thing the China Virus seems to have done to a lot of people is turn them into cry babies.

Every part of the US economy is affected, mostly for the worse. Some companies are closed, some are open but can't get products. Some can't get components to make their products.

Some businesses are closed forever. Which means that an owner has lost his investment and his employees have lost their jobs and will have to find new livelihoods. Some gun stores are closing because they have sold out of everything and can't get new stock in. Which is bad for all of us.

Everything is taking longer. Like another poster here, I ordered from a gun parts vendor and waited two months for the parts. The net effect was zero.

Oh, I sent a gun in to S&W and they have determined it's unrepairable. They are sending me a new gun, but it will be a few weeks before they can do that.

Since I have more than one gun, it's not even a blip on my radar.

If you have a job, aren't sick, haven't lost a loved one, and your biggest problem is getting a gun fixed, count yourself lucky.
Iím not sure expecting something to work properly out of the box is being a cry baby... if you donít like my post, donít respond.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #20  
Old 07-31-2020, 06:08 PM
GaryS's Avatar
GaryS GaryS is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 9,277
Likes: 7,024
Liked 13,231 Times in 5,212 Posts
Default

I don't like your post, I responded. Which is what the forum is for. If you don't like that, feel free to use the "Ignore" function. I promise my feelings won't be hurt.

As a matter of fact, I'm going to follow my own advice in that regard.

This isn't a cheer leading squad where every whiny post gets a like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHernandez View Post
Iím not sure expecting something to work properly out of the box is being a cry baby... if you donít like my post, donít respond.
__________________
Can open, worms everywhere.

Last edited by GaryS; 07-31-2020 at 06:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #21  
Old 07-31-2020, 06:35 PM
Invictus357's Avatar
Invictus357 Invictus357 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 426
Likes: 674
Liked 314 Times in 127 Posts
Default

Do what I did.

If you have a problem with a gun, WAIT until it's fixed to your satisfaction.

Then you can tell us all about and we can enjoy the story,

I've lost count on how many people have created an ID to bitch about a gun problem and then never tell us what happened.

I hope your gun gets fixed soon.

It's been a tough time for everyone during this pandemic.

I bought something for one my guns and got an email from the company shortly after.

They said sorry but it could be months before they ship it because of the pandemic.

I said I understand and I don't care - take a year if you have to. Just stay safe.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #22  
Old 07-31-2020, 06:51 PM
LCC LCC is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 309
Likes: 360
Liked 730 Times in 204 Posts
Default

The Smith and Wesson plant in Springfield had a worker test positive for Covid in March so they had to shut down operations and thoroughly disinfect the entire plant, which put them behind.
Than in June another worker tested positive for Covid so they had to do it all over again.
If you can afford a 1K new gun during a time when folks are lining up at food banks to feed their family, why not afford some patience and empathy for a reputable business doing their best during this deadly pandemic?
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #23  
Old 07-31-2020, 08:29 PM
bamabiker bamabiker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Near Birmingham
Posts: 6,574
Likes: 3,833
Liked 5,840 Times in 1,696 Posts
Default

Open the cylinder and hold back the cylinder release with your left hand and pull the trigger with your right and see if the stop sticks in the frame.
I have a M686 that had a bur on the side of the stop and it would hang on the frame sometimes. Took it out and gently filed the bur and works fine now.
I know it should work great right out of the box but that's just not 100% all the time.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-01-2020, 08:00 AM
tlawler's Avatar
tlawler tlawler is offline
US Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: South West Florida
Posts: 2,470
Likes: 2,932
Liked 5,878 Times in 1,588 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
If you have a job, aren't sick, haven't lost a loved one, and your biggest problem is getting a gun fixed, count yourself lucky.
Amen to that, brother!
__________________
USS Brewton FF1086
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #25  
Old 08-01-2020, 08:45 AM
Dan Christopher Dan Christopher is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SC
Posts: 214
Likes: 40
Liked 148 Times in 86 Posts
Default

I just find this whole thing aggravating. If S&W revolvers were two to three hundred dollars cheaper on average, I could make allowances for junk going out the door. But now, you'll pay between 800 and 1000 dollars for a standard production S&W. At that price point, there's zero excuse for any gun leaving the factory that hasn't been thoroughly inspected for barrel alignment, bc gap, timing, etc.
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #26  
Old 08-01-2020, 10:28 AM
DHernandez DHernandez is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Christopher View Post
I just find this whole thing aggravating. If S&W revolvers were two to three hundred dollars cheaper on average, I could make allowances for junk going out the door. But now, you'll pay between 800 and 1000 dollars for a standard production S&W. At that price point, there's zero excuse for any gun leaving the factory that hasn't been thoroughly inspected for barrel alignment, bc gap, timing, etc.
Thank you. Thatís my whole point. Iím not anti-Smith or a blind fanboy to any brand. I use what works for its intended purpose. I appreciate those who offered info on the problem.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #27  
Old 08-01-2020, 10:34 AM
CAJUNLAWYER's Avatar
CAJUNLAWYER CAJUNLAWYER is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: On da Bayou Teche
Posts: 15,000
Likes: 10,659
Liked 36,429 Times in 6,670 Posts
Default

I'd be pissed too.
One thing you probably don't know is that around thid time of year S$W closes down the factory for a few weeks for vacation-refurbishing, or whatever. Most seasoned "pros" know to work around this annual closure. Probably why the wait for you is so long. Not trying to excuse anything but just giving you a heads up.
Lots of people like the 69's and for good reason. Me-44's belong in an N frame. Or a Ruger
__________________
Forum consigliere
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #28  
Old 08-01-2020, 02:21 PM
AveragEd AveragEd is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Enola, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,107
Likes: 530
Liked 2,031 Times in 964 Posts
Default

As many others have posted, this damned virus has American businesses in upheaval. I work for the company that owns all the Kenworth truck dealerships in Pennsylvania and we are essential for parts and service, not sales. We ship over two million dollars worth of truck parts just about every month but getting them is touch and go because factories are limping along with skeleton crews.

As an example, remanufactured Cummins fuel injectors are about impossible to find in the states but are available from a firm in Belgium. Go figure.

Traditionally, Smith & Wesson's service has been good. I have a PC1911, the one with the slotted slide and Briley barrel bushing. I felt the bushing was too tight as it was hard to remove and reinstall although there is a video on S&W's website showing a gunsmith popping it in and out like a standard item. I returned the gun and the gunsmith working on it actually called me to discuss what he recommended doing. This of course was pre-COVID19.

Then there's Kimber. I bought a Kimber Rimfire Target Conversion Kit for my Kimber Stainless Gold Match 1911 and it failed to function in one way or another more often than not, even using their suggested ammunition, CCI MiniMags. The kit came back in about three weeks with a warranty invoice stating, "Replaced small parts."

It worked no better so I called again and suggested I send it back on my SGM frame in case the gun itself had something to do with the cause and I requested an itemized repair invoice. They said they replaced the gun's mainspring housing and as I expected, the condition was unchanged.

Finally, I requested an exchange, to which they agreed. I placed a mark in a hidden area and in fact did receive another entire kit. I then went to my club's 25-yard range and shot 100 rounds of CCI MiniMag ammo through it; well, tried to. It failed to feed, failed to fire, failed to extract or failed to eject 74 times - a 74% failure rate!

I was able to return the Kimber kit to MidwayUSA for store credit when I told them this long sorted story and provided supporting documentation. I then purchased an Advantage Arms Rimfire Target Conversion Kit and it has performed 100% flawlessly on two different frames. That Advantage Arms kit is a clone of the more costly Marvel kit, in case anyone wonders about its origins.

A few months after all this, two fellow club members were shooting their 1911s with new Kimber Rimfire Conversion Kits. Their experiences mirrored mine.

I used to own three Kimber 1911s, two in .45ACP and one in .38 Super. I now own four S&W 1911s, three in .45ACP and one in .38 Super. Any product is only as good as the support behind it and I have found Smith & Wesson's service to be very satisfactory and I'm even going back to the 1970s.

Ed
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 08-01-2020, 02:30 PM
1&done 1&done is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Colorado
Posts: 27
Likes: 6
Liked 18 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Christopher View Post
I just find this whole thing aggravating. If S&W revolvers were two to three hundred dollars cheaper on average, I could make allowances for junk going out the door. But now, you'll pay between 800 and 1000 dollars for a standard production S&W. At that price point, there's zero excuse for any gun leaving the factory that hasn't been thoroughly inspected for barrel alignment, bc gap, timing, etc.
If you look at my recent postings you see that I am not unbiased about their poor customer service, so consider my posting in that light -- but I do worry that this is the kind of corporate greed that ultimately kills companies. I have seen this kind of nonsense in my own corporate life having previously worked for a company of 175000 employees that slowly killed itself.

First management steps in and tries to cut factory costs by retiring expensive workers and shifting to 'more efficient' (read: CHEAPER) production methods. If the new process ends up making a degraded product then in the short term you just shift the burden over to product rework, QC and field service. Once you go through several years of squeezing the factory for efficiency then those same bean counters will turn their focus to another group that costs too much money and start to work on "efficiencies" there. Maybe they will take away the free coffee in the break room, or maybe they will swing for the fences and invent an initiative like: Let's target a 25% reduction in the cost of customer support. Yes, we spend way too much money every year on customer support, we need to do more with less. C'mon Dan, aren't you a team player?? We can improve our bottom line number by 8% over two years with zero top line growth!!

You will note that senior management never falls under the focus of being driven for cost cutting and efficiency. They will find reasons to give themselves larger and larger bonuses because only they could be so smart as to think this **** up.

Eventually you destroy a brand...
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 08-01-2020, 04:08 PM
SLT223 SLT223 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,925
Likes: 2,109
Liked 4,159 Times in 1,190 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlawler View Post
Thatís a big reason why so many of us seek out the real classic S&W revolvers of a bygone era. Most of mine are P&R and at least pre-MIM.
This guy has a slightly different opinion

Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #31  
Old 08-01-2020, 06:02 PM
Dougaz Dougaz is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 412
Likes: 277
Liked 1,269 Times in 265 Posts
Default

I'd like to know how many pistols (revolvers and auto's) S&W ships per year and what the failure/return/complaint ratio is relative to the total number of guns shipped.

By example, if S&W shipped 500,000 pieces per year and the failure/return/complaint number was 1,000 guns, then the failure ratio is only .002%

Now before your head explodes, I have no idea what the total number of gun sales are (in units, not dollars) nor do I know how many complaints apply to those sales numbers but when I look at re-call issues at other industries, auto's specifically, I wonder how bad this really is.

From a time standpoint, I get it .... We all want to send back a problem item and have it fixed or replaced in days, not weeks but few industries if any, are unaffected by current social/economic conditions.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 08-01-2020, 06:44 PM
tlawler's Avatar
tlawler tlawler is offline
US Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: South West Florida
Posts: 2,470
Likes: 2,932
Liked 5,878 Times in 1,588 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLT223 View Post
This guy has a slightly different opinion

The new S&W Model 19 Classic ~ A S&W Armorer's Review - YouTube
And everyoneís entitled to one.
__________________
USS Brewton FF1086
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 08-01-2020, 08:28 PM
colt_saa's Avatar
colt_saa colt_saa is offline
SWCA Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 1,539
Liked 14,998 Times in 4,232 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougaz View Post
I'd like to know how many pistols (revolvers and auto's) S&W ships per year and what the failure/return/complaint ratio is relative to the total number of guns shipped.

By example, if S&W shipped 500,000 pieces per year and the failure/return/complaint number was 1,000 guns, then the failure ratio is only .002%

Now before your head explodes, I have no idea what the total number of gun sales are (in units, not dollars) nor do I know how many complaints apply to those sales numbers but when I look at re-call issues at other industries, auto's specifically, I wonder how bad this really is.

From a time standpoint, I get it .... We all want to send back a problem item and have it fixed or replaced in days, not weeks but few industries if any, are unaffected by current social/economic conditions.
All manufacturers report production to the ATFE, they then compile a report. The most current report is always 2 years behind.

Over the last 4 or 5 reports Smith & Wesson averaged roughly one million firearms per year.

It makes no difference if it is a pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle, it gets test fired before shipping.

That averages over three thousand eight hundred firearms per day.

Price of the gun does not matter, they all get the same routine before shipping out.

How much time do you feel they should spend on each firearm?
__________________
"Acta non verba"
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:58 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)