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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 10-18-2020, 06:13 PM
Lahti35 Lahti35 is offline
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I've been looking at picking up a 442 and doing the CCW for carry purposes... All my research has been online until this evening when I stopped by a gunshop for some magazines an hour ago and got to hold a 642.

I was blown away by how light it is. I grew up with mostly antique guns, all steel with wood or bakelite grips. The "airweight" name is fitting!

Hoping to snag a 442 in the next few weeks and get accustomed to it. I do have regular to large hands so my concern was how small it was but that seemed not to be an issue with the aftermarket rubber grips on the 642 at the store.
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Old 10-18-2020, 06:18 PM
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They’re slick little guns. Not the most modern or “tactical” sidearms, but they’re lightweight and reliable. I’ve ccw’d a J-frame of some sort off and on for nearly 20 years (mostly in the summertime).
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Old 10-18-2020, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lahti35 View Post
I've been looking at picking up a 442 and doing the CCW for carry purposes... All my research has been online until this evening when I stopped by a gunshop for some magazines an hour ago and got to hold a 642.



I was blown away by how light it is. I grew up with mostly antique guns, all steel with wood or bakelite grips. The "airweight" name is fitting!



Hoping to snag a 442 in the next few weeks and get accustomed to it. I do have regular to large hands so my concern was how small it was but that seemed not to be an issue with the aftermarket rubber grips on the 642 at the store.
Pacmayr makes some decelerator grips that are larger and fill the hand better. I'm not sure if thats the exact name.

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Old 10-18-2020, 07:50 PM
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Size XL hands here too. Hogue tamer grips will fill your hand much more, at some cost of concealment. They also do an excellent job mitigating recoil. Mine are back in the drawer for now but I may put them back on in winter when I'm usually wearing sweatshirts.
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Old 10-18-2020, 08:06 PM
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Great to carry...not enjoyable to shoot (for me). Absolutely invisible in a front pocket with an Uncle Mike's #3 holster.
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Old 10-18-2020, 08:30 PM
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You will like it.
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Old 10-18-2020, 09:41 PM
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No reason to wait on a 442, go back and get that 642! Add a set of Hogue Bantam grips, a Sticky holster or an Uncle Mikes, and tuck it in your pocket.
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Old 10-18-2020, 10:51 PM
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No reason to wait on a 442, go back and get that 642! Add a set of Hogue Bantam grips, a Sticky holster or an Uncle Mikes, and tuck it in your pocket.
Bank account is dry and the gun shop is my 2nd least favorite in the area, not to mention the 642 was priced high and was used. Its a sellers market and the shop knows it. I can do better off of gunbroker shipped to my friendly FFL. I'll snag one within a few weeks, just need to grow some money!
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Old 10-19-2020, 12:56 AM
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If you have a choice, get a 442 without the lock (less to go wrong and they still make them that way). I carry a 442 every day with the boot grips that come on it and even though I have large hands it fits just fine.
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Old 10-19-2020, 01:05 AM
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Great to carry...not enjoyable to shoot (for me). Absolutely invisible in a front pocket with an Uncle Mike's #3 holster.
Me, either, I dumped my Airweights, but it's the same concealment story with a M649 except it's way easier to shoot!
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Old 10-19-2020, 02:24 AM
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No reason to wait on a 442, go back and get that 642! < snip >
This. I picked a 442 because I'd found sights on stainless guns hard to see in bright light. The 442 sights were easy to see, but I found that carrying it in the high humidity summers would bring rust specks on the yoke overnight if I didn't wipe it down with a silicone cloth at the end of every day. (Never on the cylinder or ejector rod, both of which were also steel - just the yoke, inside, on the surface that sat against the frame when closed.)

I subsequently acquired some stainless models (638, 640 and 632) and have carried them for years without daily maintenance, and have not a speck of rust on any of 'em. I fixed the stainless sight problem by painting the front ramp red and use a toothpick to spread flat black model paint in the cutout and face of the rear notch. The sights are even easier to see than the stock ones on the 442.

So if you're going to pick up a new one some time, I'd recommend the 642. And without the lock, if you can get one.
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Old 10-19-2020, 02:25 AM
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I've had a 442 Pro for 5 years now and it is a great little gun. It is my summertime carry,I still have the original grips on it also. You can't go wrong with it.
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Old 10-19-2020, 09:56 AM
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I concur on preferring the 642, picked my no-lock because of the better corrosion resistance. Did the red front/black back paint on mine as well, good solution.

The great thing about J-frames is, there's a billion different kinds of grips available, and you can carry it as a peacetime primary but it also makes a great backup for when the big guns come out.
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Old 10-19-2020, 10:29 AM
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Great liitle gun. I mostly use it on my bike rides in a waist pack.

I use a Mika holster for pocket carry. I also use Ergo Delta Grips to tame recoil. If you have large hands they might help retain a solid grip.
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Old 10-19-2020, 12:18 PM
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I actually prefer the durability of the finish on my 642 over my previous 442's finish.

The 442's finish showed every little minor nick or scratch moreso than my 642 ever has. That being said I did initially prefer the looks of the black 442 over the gray/silver 642........but experience with both has shifted me the other direction with regards to appearance after several years of use.

My 442 was purchased several years ago and possibly the finish is more durable on them now?

I meant to add with lightweight alloy revolvers always check the underneath (where the barrel threads into the frame) for cracks. If you don't know how to already do a proper function test of the revolver with regards to carry up, lock-up, timing, push-off, etc., try to learn how to do such. (The push off thing is a non-issue with the 442, but it is a good thing to get in the habit of checking on revolvers with exposed hammers.)

When I was shopping for my (new) 442, 642, and the wife's 638 I actually inspected several new examples with "issues" straight from the factory. In fact it was quite the eye opener for me with regards to brand new revolver purchases, as I usually inspect the older used examples I tend to purchase very closely.......but I don't purchase all that many brand new examples.

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Old 10-19-2020, 01:26 PM
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The 442/642 can be great carry guns. Lightweight, compact, reasonably powerful. Of course, those same attributes can make them difficult to shoot well.

Lots of grip options available that should let you find the right balance of fitting your hand, concealability, and controllability. Like holsters, it's going to be a trial-and-error process, unless you get lucky early.

Very versatile for carry. For most of the 2010s I carried my 642-1 (the one without the lock) IWB. Easy to carry, very discreet. I still carry this way from time to time. I've also used a pocket holster, but it's not a method I'm fond of so I rarely carry that way. When I used to go jogging it would go in a small fanny pack holster. For the last couple of years now my 642-1 is primarily carried as a BUG in an ankle holster. Very comfortable, and accessibility isn't bad when seated, especially in a car (my main reason for ankle carry).

Don't know how experienced you are with lightweight handguns, or handguns in general, but ammo availability is going to be an issue. The best load right now is the Speer 135gr Short-Barrel Gold Dot +P, but availability has always been spotty, and moreso now. It's what I carry in my 642.

I'm also a fan of the FBI load. The Remington version is good, but my favorite is the Buffalo Bore 158gr LSWCHP standard pressure version (same velocity as the +P FBI loads by other makers). BB ammo should be readily available, for the most part, but expensive, more than $1/round.

While I find those +P loads controllable in my 642, they may be a bit much for other people, especially those new to shooting snubs. If possible, I'd suggest trying to find some 148gr target wadcutters. Not a lot of recoil, not too expensive (though, the current situation may have changed that), and can work for both practice and self defense.

Of course, with the current ammo situation, you may just have to get what you can and do your best with it. While some rounds are better for defensive purposes than others, shot placement is still the most important factor.

I would suggest getting a set or two of snap caps (I like A-Zoom) for dry fire practice. It will help build up your hand and finger muscles to better manage the DAO trigger, and increasing hand strength can also help with recoil control. Airweight snubs can be difficult to shoot, and dry fire practice will help with that. Start out easy, maybe a couple of minutes a day, and increase as your strength and endurance improve. Grippers can also help. I like Captains of Crush grippers, but grippers, or even tennis balls, from your nearest sporting goods store will work, too.

Sorry for the novel. Hope you find it helpful.

And welcome to the wonderful world of snubs!
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Old 10-19-2020, 01:34 PM
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I also carry the Speer 135gr rounds in my 642. Supplies always seem to be tight, but I have two 50 round boxes I picked up somewhere.

A couple of years ago, I was going to sell one, but I'm now glad I didn't.

I do, however, wonder what a box of 50 rounds would be worth on today's market.

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Don't know how experienced you are with lightweight handguns, or handguns in general, but ammo availability is going to be an issue. The best load right now is the Speer 135gr Short-Barrel Gold Dot +P, but availability has always been spotty, and moreso now. It's what I carry in my 642.

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Old 10-19-2020, 05:15 PM
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IMO, 158JHP appear to be best for POA hitting POC. Let the pundits rail, this is just a fact. Lighter bullets are faster but drop off quicker. Heavier, just why...? The best that I have found is 158xtp as +P, in my reloads. Even then, stock OEM 158JHP "may" actually be better... Accuracy is king.
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Old 10-19-2020, 05:27 PM
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Make sure you inspect the prospective 642/442 purchase(or any other gun purchase) thoroughly prior to buying. My "shoots around corners" 442 Pro Series had long ratchets and a canted barrel when shipped. Shoots about 2-3 inches to the left at 7 yards.
Not a deal breaker on a back up gun, but would have liked the barrel to be straight. Hard to fathom why this is such a difficult task considering our lasers and computer driven machines nowadays.

In the "For What It's Worth" category......Contrary to popular folklore, the "Pro Series" (PC) guns do not receive additional attention, with the exception of the substitution of an 8 pound Wolff mainspring, a slightly lighter (?) rebound spring, and the laser applied "Pro Series" logo on the sideplate. The canted barrel and long ratchets on mine were provided at no extra charge.
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Old 10-19-2020, 08:32 PM
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Can’t go wrong with either. I carry a 442 every day in my pocket. Most days a second 442 or other J-Frame is in my waist. I keep them wiped down and rust free with Ballistol. When we are in Florida for the winter I keep the waistband gun in a good leather holster away from skin and sweat. These guns are no locks from 2012 carried and shot regularly and the finish is holding up well. Hogue and Pachmayr grips still fit most pockets and make shooting comfortable and fun.
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Old 10-20-2020, 11:26 AM
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I find the gray finish on the 642 doesn’t hold up nearly as well as the black 442 Finish. I’m surprised to read some guys think the 642 holds up better. Do a search on this form and see for yourself.
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Old 10-20-2020, 11:36 AM
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I find the gray finish on the 642 doesn’t hold up nearly as well as the black 442 Finish. I’m surprised to read some guys think the 642 holds up better. Do a search on this form and see for yourself.
The 642's stainless steel parts are less prone to corrosion than the 442. That's what people are referring to.
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Old 10-20-2020, 11:40 AM
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The 642's stainless steel parts are less prone to corrosion than the 442. That's what people are referring to.
(((((I agree with that but below is the post I was referring to)))):

actually prefer the durability of the finish on my 642 over my previous 442's finish.

The 442's finish showed every little minor nick or scratch moreso than my 642 ever has. That being said I did initially prefer the looks of the black 442 over the gray/silver 642........but experience with both has shifted me the other direction with regards to appearance after several years of use.

My 442 was purchased several years ago and possibly the finish is more durable on them now?

I meant to add with lightweight alloy revolvers always check the underneath (where the barrel threads into the frame) for cracks. If you don't know how to already do a proper function test of the revolver with regards to carry up, lock-up, timing, push-off, etc., try to learn how to do such. (The push off thing is a non-issue with the 442, but it is a good thing to get in the habit of checking on revolvers with exposed hammers.)

When I was shopping for my (new) 442, 642, and the wife's 638 I actually inspected several new examples with "issues" straight from the factory. In fact it was quite the eye opener for me with regards to brand new revolver purchases, as I usually inspect the older used examples I tend to purchase very closely.......but I don't purchase all that many brand new examples.
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Old 10-20-2020, 01:12 PM
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I find the gray finish on the 642 doesn’t hold up nearly as well as the black 442 Finish. I’m surprised to read some guys think the 642 holds up better. Do a search on this form and see for yourself.
Maybe the finish on my 442 example was an anomaly, I can concede that since I owned just the one 442.

I'd say it was purchased new-in-box at least 7-8 years or so ago. I don't recall when it actually shipped.

I'd really like to think most 442 finishes resist wear better than what mine did then.

Looks don't mean everything and I guess there is something that could be said for a handgun having "character".

Last edited by tenntex32; 10-20-2020 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 10-20-2020, 01:48 PM
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I think the 642 would win the prize for most SENSIBLE weapon. JMO!
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Old 10-20-2020, 02:01 PM
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Seems to me the finish durability of the 642 is somewhat hit-or-miss. Some people report flaking and peeling, and others don't.

FWIW, my first 642 purchased almost 10 years ago had pretty bad flaking pretty soon. I think within a year it looked like I ran it in the dryer with some pebbles. It was replaced about 5 years ago with another 642, and that finish, for the most part, has held up much better.

Fortunately, to me it's a carry gun so appearance isn't all that critical as long as it functions properly. I preferred the lower maintenance stainless steel construction, so the (potential) bad finish issues was worth the trade-off.
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Old 10-20-2020, 02:21 PM
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I've carried 442's and 642's for more than 20 years. The only advantage of the 642 is you get a stainless cylinder. All of the other parts are the same as a 442. The 442's barrel is blackened stainless. From the factory 442 sights are easier to see. 642 sights pick up more glare. The clearcoat finish of the 642 eventually wears off and leaves bare aluminum open to oxidation.

I pocket carry a 442, and if my pocket blouses open with a 442 all a casual observer will see is black. With a 642 the silver back strap highlights the revolver and says "gun". Speaking of pocket carry, if you go with an Uncle Mike's pocket holster use the #4, not the #3 (which is the one UM recommends). The #4 fits much better. Pocket carry with a J frame hammerless means that if you perceive a threat you simply put your hand in your pocket and on your gun. If the threat manifest itself your gun is already in your hand for immediate use. With IWB, shoulder holster, or ankle carry you have to move the covering garment. If it's a false alarm you have just brandished a gun and can face problems. They are slower to boot. The only times pocket carry puts you at a disadvantage are while driving or seated. A sitting position slows down your draw considerably. I have carried two 442's on occasion, one in the pocket and one on my ankle. That takes care of a draw from a seated position except in a vehicle. I use the console then in my truck.

The only changes I recommend for a 442/642 are altering or replacing the boot grips for easier speed loader use, and yellow paint on the front sight if you have trouble seeing black on black. S&W really needs a redesign for the current grips. As far as ammo, if you use JHP go with a +P loading. The short barrel does not provide enough velocity for a standard velocity JHP to expand. Be wary about spring kits to lighten the trigger pull. They can produce light strikes and failure to fire. This is most noticeable with European ammo which often has harder primers than US primers.

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Old 10-20-2020, 02:51 PM
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I've had a 642 for several yrs and it moved my model 60 out of rotation .... until I got a model 38 airweight. The ole humpback is now my go to.
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Old 10-20-2020, 09:41 PM
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I'm a newbee, just purchased a 642 this spring for PP. I started following these forums, and saw a few people reporting that the finish of their guns were flaking, which caught my attention. Of course, I'd like to keep my first looking like new!

I looked thru the manual, an saw that S&W said to avoid "ammoniated solvents or other strong alkaline solvents". Looking at the popular cleaning products like Hoppe's 9 bore cleaner, I see many contain ammonia. But their Elite product line does not.

Am I right in thinking that using the Elite cleaner is safer on this guns finish?
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Old 10-20-2020, 10:18 PM
waffles waffles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moosestang View Post
I'm a newbee, just purchased a 642 this spring for PP. I started following these forums, and saw a few people reporting that the finish of their guns were flaking, which caught my attention. Of course, I'd like to keep my first looking like new!

I looked thru the manual, an saw that S&W said to avoid "ammoniated solvents or other strong alkaline solvents". Looking at the popular cleaning products like Hoppe's 9 bore cleaner, I see many contain ammonia. But their Elite product line does not.

Am I right in thinking that using the Elite cleaner is safer on this guns finish?
I'd really not worry about it that much, abrasion from rubbing while being carried and sweat are going to do way more over the years than your cleaning routine.
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Old 10-20-2020, 10:44 PM
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I think that the 442 / 642 lineup is among Smith's best offerings. They are practical, reliable, light, concealable, etc.

I am sort of a dork for the 442/642 guns and have quite a few, including many of the "no dash" varieties, 442 in matte nickel, clear anodized 642, etc. In fact, carried a "no dash" shiny 642 all day in a Wilderness Tactical Renegade ankle holster.
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Old 10-20-2020, 11:15 PM
waffles waffles is offline
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I should note I've had uncharacteristically bad luck with J frames. I've cracked two airweights, a 38 and 642, at the frame where the barrel screws in, and my current scandium offering the little nub on the frame to the rear of the cylinder has worn off to the point where when the cylinder is open I can push it off the gun with ease.

They're still stupid practical, and despite my bad luck with the lighter models I'm still going to snag another scandium model when prices normalize.
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  #33  
Old 10-20-2020, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Lahti35 View Post
Bank account is dry and the gun shop is my 2nd least favorite in the area, not to mention the 642 was priced high and was used. Its a sellers market and the shop knows it. I can do better off of gunbroker shipped to my friendly FFL. I'll snag one within a few weeks, just need to grow some money!
I so understand your situation, been there, done that. I was actually looking at 442's when I found my 642. New was $$$'s I didn't have, used 642 was $375. I traded another gun I wasn't using straight across, making it easier to enjoy. Good luck with your search.
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  #34  
Old 10-23-2020, 04:12 PM
eclayton eclayton is offline
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...my current scandium offering the little nub on the frame to the rear of the cylinder has worn off to the point where when the cylinder is open I can push it off the gun with ease.
You describe the exact same problem I had with my 442. It had less than 200 rounds through it when it started doing that. I sent it back to S&W and expected they would replace it since the frame was worn down, did not think they would be able to repair it. They surprised me by sending it back repaired. Notes said they “lined up yoke” and “adjusted frame”. They actually added a bit of metal to the lug. It’s not pretty but the problem is fixed. Turn time was about five weeks.
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Old 10-23-2020, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eclayton View Post
You describe the exact same problem I had with my 442. It had less than 200 rounds through it when it started doing that. I sent it back to S&W and expected they would replace it since the frame was worn down, did not think they would be able to repair it. They surprised me by sending it back repaired. Notes said they “lined up yoke” and “adjusted frame”. They actually added a bit of metal to the lug. It’s not pretty but the problem is fixed. Turn time was about five weeks.
Any chance you can post a picture of it after it was repaired?
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  #36  
Old 10-23-2020, 08:49 PM
eclayton eclayton is offline
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Here are before and after photos. On the left is after the repair, middle is before, and right is before with the cylinder jumped over the lug, same as waffles described. Besides whatever they did to the yoke, they deposited a blob of some metal, presumably aluminum, onto the worn down surface of the lug, smoothed it out somewhat (not perfectly), and then blackened it. Appearance is not perfect or like new, but function is fully restored. S&W paid shipping both ways and the fix cost me nothing but the time to drop off and pick up a FedEx package. I’m happy with the work. And back to the OP’s topic, the 442 is a great carry gun, but I hate the factory boot grip. I replaced it with a 3- finger Uncle Mike’s grip that fully covers the back strap. Until I did that, 10 rounds through the gun would leave a blister on the joint of my thumb and 50 rounds would leave blood all over the gun.
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  #37  
Old 10-25-2020, 07:13 PM
wagsfn wagsfn is offline
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I'm very pleased with the 442 I purchased last year. I carry it in a Mika Pocket Holster year round when I'm in a hurry or if I just feel like carrying it. I kept the factory grips which doesn't bother my large hands with standard .38spl or +P loads.

The double action trigger pull is stiff which is why I installed a Apex J-Frame Trigger Kit. Brought down the trigger pull 2-3 lbs I'm guessing. The finish is holding up well. A great little lightweight sub $400 revolver. One of my better purchases for a on the go CCW tool.
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Old 10-25-2020, 07:21 PM
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I was impressed by the weight and feel of the no-lock 642 I bought early last year. It was horrendous to actually shoot though, and I ended up selling it soon thereafter. If S&W made a new variant of the 640 without the lock and with an exposed ejector rod I think I would've been happier with it. The weight differences in terms of actual carry were fairly negligible between the steel and aluminum frames in practice, but the steel was a lot more pleasant to shoot.

Last edited by NY-1; 10-25-2020 at 07:23 PM.
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  #39  
Old 10-27-2020, 12:45 PM
vintage40s vintage40s is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY-1 View Post
I was impressed by the weight and feel of the no-lock 642 I bought early last year. It was horrendous to actually shoot though, and I ended up selling it soon thereafter... The weight differences in terms of actual carry were fairly negligible between the steel and aluminum frames in practice, but the steel was a lot more pleasant to shoot.
I am also a little disappointed in the new alloy 642-2 I bought last summer. It looks and feels like a cheap toy, hurts to shoot, and it's hard to be accurate. At least the trigger became OK with an Apex kit. As my first gun, I was thinking to carry, but actual use is just for home and range. And for that, a steel 4" would have been better.

Last edited by vintage40s; 10-27-2020 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 10-27-2020, 01:57 PM
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I put 50 rounds, mixed standard pressure & 110 grain +P, through my 340PD last week, and found it pretty enjoyable to shoot w/ Pachmayer grips. I then swapped them for the factory magnas w/a T Grip, the way it’s carried, and not so much fun anymore. The important thing is my accuracy was good w/either (I don’t shoot past 7 yards) but my hand smarted w/each round of +P.
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  #41  
Old 10-27-2020, 04:58 PM
mikerjf mikerjf is offline
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The last couple weeks I’ve been pocket-carrying a steel 60 instead of the 637. Can’t say I notice much difference. AIWB seems pretty much the same too.

At the range, no contest - I’d much rather shoot the steel one.
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