Hello everyone,
I've just purchased, in an auction in Germany, a nice, almost new, in the way that it was part of a collection and fired only a few rounds, Smith & Wesson 25-3.
I won't receive it before a month, time for me to prepare transborder documents.
It is a dash 3 therefore it should be chambered for the .45LC but the gunshop tender says it can fire either .45ACP and .45LC with only one cylinder....I thought mechanically impossible because of the moon clips....
The serial is 1612, if anyone can put a date on it.
Many thanks for your advice/remarks/info
Greetings from France.
Jacques

I had one of those years back and foolishly sold it.

The only way that one cylinder will work with both well is if the center portion of a colt cylinder is relieved for the moon clips. You can also use a 45acp that has had the chambers reamed deeper so the front of colts brass is is held by the step in chamber, a poor method IMHO 45acp will slide way forward in a regular 45 colt cylinder.

Here is the recessed center method. The acps use full moon clips and the colts head space by the outside edge of the rim held on the outside ring on rear of cylinder



But, the 25-3 was the first regular production S&W 45 colt and they used the short cylinder. You could get a 45acp cylinder and have it fitted to your gun. Then just remove yoke screw from side plate remove yoke and cylinder. Slide cylinder complete with ejector rod off yoke tube, slide other cylinder on and reinstall in frame. The 45acp cylinder will have some additional back and forth slop when open because the guns frame lug is set about .040 longer for the difference in rear of cylinders. It would still be fine closed up if set up right. Have done this conversion myself in the past.

Many thanks Steelslaver,
I would be happy if I can shoot .45LC with it because I've got another revolver chambered for that cartridge. I got rid of everything of .45ACP when I sold my Colt Combat Elite (reloading tools, brass....).
Cheers.
Jacques

Also when a 25-3 has its cylinder cut like shown above one can use .45 Colt full moon clips.

Or better 45 Winchester magnums brass

I have never tried 45 colt clips.

During hunting season I pack the 4" gun that cylinder is fitted to, loaded with warm 45 colt loads and a clip full of 45 acps. I hunt in "bear countrry"

We cannot hunt with handguns in Europe...it's linked to the size of the different countries as well, completely different from the US...
https://www.ebay.com/p/28011373788
Do these moonclips accept both 45 LC and 45ACP?
The serial number of the 25-3 is 1612, can anyone put a manufacture date on it?
Cheers.
Jacques

Understand and where I live is kind off different from most of the US.

Many US states have caliper restrictions for hunting. In Montana during rifle season you can use a sling shot, a BB gun, a 22 or a 50 caliber BMG.

Many states prohibit having loaded rifles in you truck during hunting season. Here that is not only legal, but common. You can drive around here anywhere you want with loaded hand guns, rifles and shotguns in your car or truck with no permit of any kind. We also have one of the lowest murder rates of any of the states and only 4 states have a lower robbery rate.

Thank you US 2nd amendment and Montana constitution. One liberal college city here in Montana tried to pass an more restrictive gun law than the state. Citizens initiative this election voted to reaffirm that is not allowed. We also have one of the lowest murder rates of any of the states and only 4 states have a lower robbery rate.

You would need different moon clips for 45 colt than 45acp as the 45colt does not have nearly as much of a rebate as the 45acp. I have several guns of each caliber. I have never seen a 45 colt moonclip myself

.45 Colt and ACP clips have different dimensions for the particular cartridge case dimensions. But will both work in the custom cut cylinder.

The only Model 25-3 revolvers were the .45 Colt 125th Anniversary Commemoratives made in 1977. The 25-4 was the more highly decorated version of the 125th Anniversary Commemorative. S&W misrepresented those as our once in a lifetime opportunity to buy a .45 Colt S&W then as soon as they sold out introduced standard production 25-5 .45 Colts with longer cylinders.

S&W .45 Colt cylinder throats were over size until the early 1980s. S&W replaced some of those cylinders with cylinders that had tighter throats under warranty but the customer had to ask. There was never a recall. My 25-3 had .458" throats and would only produce 3" groups at 25 yards with relatively light .45-70 rifle bullets. That gave it .44 Magnum recoil without the blast. It never did shoot great and was horribly inaccurate with pistol bullets. Maybe real black powder would bump up the diameter of soft lead pistol bullets so they would shoot well. I did not try that.

A 25-3 that will fire .45 ACP has an altered cylinder.

Many thanks to all for these informations.
revolver Smith & Wesson Model 25-3 .45 Colt/45 Acp Sondermodell - eGun
On the picts it seems to have a pinned barrel therefore manufactured around the 80's. The s/n is 1512....any idea?
It is described as made in forged steel when the new ones are made of precision cast steel....any comments about that?
Greetings,
Jacques

As a rule all standard S&W revolvers have forged frames. I am not sure about the ****** Bodyguard series .38’s.

Looked at the sale pictures and that cylinder will not work on acps unless it has been modified like the one I showed earlier and that is unlikely.

This past Halloween day I was in a gun shop in Emmett, ID, to look at a 25-3 my buddy told me about. I got there 5 minutes too late, another gentleman was already fondling it. It was perfect and complete, including the hard bound book. Went for $1100.

__________________
213th FBINA

Any pinned barrel gun was made before 82. 1982 was when they dropped the pinned barrels, and the recesses cylinders on magnums.

The -3 was the 125th anniversary gun and made in 1977 as I think someone pointed out above. It will have be a forged steel gun, unlike a Ruger.

You can mitigate the large chamber throats somewhat by shooting oversized bullets in it.

Guns.com had several for sale recently.

I paid 1200 for one earlier this year. It was unfired in the box with everything, including the presentation case and shipping container. I will be shooting it.

Hello,
Thank you to everyone giving advice in here...
Many are talking about the cylinder throats being over sized? The bullets I settle on my Starline brass are .451.Are they too small ? It worries me...
Greetings,
Jacques

In a gun with smaller throats, they'd be just fine.
Some older Smiths in .45 Colt are notorious for large throats. I have had better results with .454 bullets in the past.

1st correcting myself.
SCSW 3rd ed., p. 193 writes in 1977 100 round butt 3" .45 ACP 25-3s were made for Lew Horton. A nice one would be a great find.

2nd, the serial number ranges Muley Gil gave were for general production revolvers.
SCSW 3rd ed. p.192 writes the 10,000 125th Anniversary Commemorative serial numbers were S&W00001 - S&W10000 with 500 numbers used on the more highly decorated 25-4s and the first and 125th numbers used for two super deluxe engraved versions.

I do not intend to criticize Muley Gil's knowledge which usually provides accurate information. I did not remember the special serial numbers and I shot a 25-3 for a few years.

Worrying does not help. Know what you are buying into and plan ahead.

I bought one in 1978. The hands down most beautiful firearm I have ever owned. Horribly inaccurate. No internet in those days and I didn’t know about oversized throats and such. I passed it on at a loss.

The OP is in France/Brittany so components may not be as easily come by as we expect. My advice would be to shoot it and see how it does before worrying about large throats.

If there is a lack of accuracy, then figure how to correct it.

Kevin

__________________
Unshared knowledge is wasted.

Bonjour Jacques,

je suis allemand et de temps en temps j'achète des armes en egun. Il y a souvent des descriptions fausses... En regard au longeur du cylindre, je m'en doute si le calibre est .45 Colt, mais plustot le .45 ACP. Le cylindre du .45 Colt apparrait plus long que celui du revolver que tu as acheté. regarde ici Smith & Wesson (S&W) 25-9 im Kaliber .45 Colt - eGun

To our american friends: I adressed Jacques in french, just to use french language again. IMHO the cylinder of his revolver looks shorter than those of a .45 Colt, so I guess it is a .45 ACP. German gun sellers often do not know much about their guns, German problem especially with this particular seller. I frequently buy guns on egun, so I quite often come across some strange descriptions.

regards from Germany
Ulrich

__________________
Life is too short to own a bad gun

Despite being cambered for .45 Colt, 25-3 and -4 cylinders were more or less .44 Special cylinder length. 25-5 cylinders were more or less .44 Magnum cylinder length, just a little shorter on the rear end because non-magnums were not recessed.

Some 25-2 users have reported good results from their guns with oversized throats when using jacketed bullets. Wonder if that might help the 25-3 as well?

"Originally Posted by Muley Gil View Post
A M25-3 should have a serial number that reads N2xxxxx, N3xxxxx or N4xxxxx. The serial number is located on the butt. You may have to remove the grips to read the number.
SCSW 3rd ed. p.192 writes the 10,000 125th Anniversary Commemorative serial numbers were S&W00001 - S&W10000 with 500 numbers used on the more highly decorated 25-4s and the first and 125th numbers used for two super deluxe engraved versions.

I do not intend to criticize Muley Gil's knowledge which usually provides accurate information. I did not remember the special serial numbers and I shot a 25-3 for a few years."


I stand corrected. I missed that when I checked the info. I have deleted my post. It has been many years since I looked at a M25-3 and probably didn't look at the SN back then.

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I understand the situation you mention. I’ve seen some of the descriptions on-line.

Unfortunately, you’re a bit guilty too, Ulrich. It’s a .45 Colt. That caliber was something of a concern back in the day. Nobody I knew could understand the mentality of selecting a Cxxx cartridge for S&W’s anniversary gun. WTH, as they say!

Hello chaps,
busy busy at that time!!
Confirmation of the gunshop tender that the serial number engraved is S&W1612 for that gun....
I'll come back later. Back after the soccer match Portugal vs France 0 to 1
Hi Ulrich, thank you to write to me in French. Herr Jochen Langguth of Kaiserslautern said the gun can shoot both calibers using moon clips. That puzzles me because 25-X, when X is odd number the caliber in .45LC and when X is even number the gun is chambered for the .45ACP. It is not very easy to communicate with him. He told me he's been doing his job for over 40 years and knows the guns. Obviously, if I had the possibility to visit the shop it would have been easier. I live completely at the opposite some 1200 kms away.
The gun available on Egun is rather nice....Am I gonna regret my purchase?
It's indicated "no international shipping" but I don't know exactly if it includes EU.....

Cheers,
Jacques

Hello to all,
At last, the new baby arrived this morning from Germany. Here are the picts. The gun shop tender didn't lie, it's really as new. Even the cylinder doesn't bear the usual scratch all around made by the lock....
I'll try it tomorrow at the range....
Good weekend

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Congratulations! You found a beauty.

I bought my 25-2 recently and believe it to be one of, if not the, sweetest(!) handling revolvers I've ever owned.

Scored a Pristine 25-2!

I hope yours shoots as well as it looks! (I believe mine does!)


-Bill

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Veteran Paratrooper, '86-'90

Very nice acquisition Jaques! Beautiful firearm. I hope it shoots well for you. I am very fond of the Model 25 in .45 Colt.

Here is a photo of a few of mine; two Model 25-9 and a Model 625-7 Mountain Gun, all .45 Colt.

__________________
No good deed goes unpunished.

Have we determined for what cartridge the Model 25-3 was chambered?
Specifically the OP’s revolver.

Kevin

__________________
Unshared knowledge is wasted.

The 25-3 was chambered in .45 Colt.

See the 2nd paragraph of the 2nd post.

astigmat2000,

If it's not too late you can prevent the normal turn line ever forming. Remove the cylinder stop then dull its top edges. I use a Case brand translucent natural knife sharpening stone. Its surface feels like smooth glass but it does remove some metal. Not long ago a hopeful seller handed me his 25-2 at the local range. Seeing no turn line I told onlookers that it had fired very few shots if any at all. The would be seller listened for a couple minutes then said he'd fired over 5,000 cartridges through it in bullseye competition. Oops! I felt its cylinder stop. It was smooth. I know better! Most of the S&W revolvers that I've bought new I did the same thing to. The last as new blued S&W revolver that I bought I took straight from the store to a bullseye league. I wish I'd acted more mature. Its sharp cylinder stop gave it a turn line in a few matches. Since your 25-3 is a fancy gun that came with no line I hope you can find enough patience to stone its stop.

Hello,
Saturday afternoon, I shot the new S&W at the range. It's pretty accurate and as smooth as expected. I confirm it's chambered for the .45 Colt and there is no room for a moonclip and .45 ACP cartridges. A friend came to the range with it's JM 625 and I tested.... No trouble, I wanted a 45 Colt not an ACP....
Cheers.
Jacques