Do We Need an Unofficial S&W 544 Thread?

[biku324]

Just won a replacement for a S&W 544 I sold several years ago; it's about the 7th or 8th time I've tried over the past year.

I'm dusting off my 44-40 dies now...can't wait for the revolver's arrival at my FFL. Before I started overseas contracting (I'm retired just now) I had a great time with a 544 and one of the few Marlin 1894Ss in 44-40. I really like the cartridge, and who DOESN'T like a 5" N-frame??

Do we need an unofficial 544 thread, and does anyone need a pristine TWT Sesquicentennial box?

[charlie sherrill]

I had one for a short period of time but somebody agreed to a stupid "I don't want to sell it price" I threw out and I let it go. Now it's worth a lot more than what I sold it for.

[biku324]

Mine was an excellent shooter; and how else do you find an unfired 5" N-frame from 34 years ago?

[cowboy4evr]

I agree with you biku324 , I have the " 94 " marlin in 44-40 . Mine has a low 3 digit serial # so must of been made around 93-94 . The groove diameter is .426 so I size my cast bullets .427 . It is in great condition and a real shooter . I have wanted a revolver in same caliber and have looked at the S&W 544 numerous times . The search continues . Regards Paul

[biku324]

Just picked up my 544 at my FFL, really a LGS. It's perfect, the blue shipping box and wooden box unscratched, and all S&W warranty, instructions, tools (in the plastic bag) perfect.

I kinda feel bad about getting ready to shoot it, but not really all THAT bad! A new, old stock 5" N-frame...it doesn't get much better!

[Breakaway500]

Ive got two of those "undesireabe" 544 Texas Wagon Train Commemoratives and enjoy shooting them immensely.It's a great caliber and the 544 is the ideal modern pistol to shoot them out of. So glad commemoratives are such red-headded stepchilds that nobody wants...

[cowboy4evr]

There's just one on GB right now and it's priced at over $1800 . I will have to keep looking . Regards Paul

[cowboy4evr]

I have had a troubling thought ? My Marlin rifle likes bullets sized .427 . The S&W 544 , supposedly has a barrel groove diameter of .429 with cylinder throats sized .428 from what I have been able to read . I would have to make my reloads in 2 different sizes , one for the Marlin and the other for the 544 . The Marlin will not accept bullets any fatter than .427. Actually they come out of the sizing / lube die .4265 . I cast fairly soft so they pretty much remain that size with no spring back . Regards Paul

[Miami_JBT]

I have one and wrote a article about it over at my gun blog.

[Waldo]

I have one. I generally take it to the range with my 44-40 Colt New Frontier. I have not yet decided which one I like better. Maybe after 30 or 40 years I will decide.

[biku324]

Originally Posted by cowboy4evr

There's just one on GB right now and it's priced at over $1800 . I will have to keep looking . Regards Paul

Fugate Firearms has one for $1200, but that's too much. Guncrack auctions usually end between $850 and $975.

[biku324]

Originally Posted by cowboy4evr

I have had a troubling thought ? My Marlin rifle likes bullets sized .427 . The S&W 544 , supposedly has a barrel groove diameter of .429 with cylinder throats sized .428 from what I have been able to read . I would have to make my reloads in 2 different sizes , one for the Marlin and the other for the 544 . The Marlin will not accept bullets any fatter than .427. Actually they come out of the sizing / lube die .4265 . I cast fairly soft so they pretty much remain that size with no spring back . Regards Paul

I had a pair like that (1894S and 544) a few years ago and had very good accuracy from both with Nosler and Sierra 200 grain JHPs, which are .4295". Neither liked the .430" 200 grain JHP Hornadys as well.

[cowboy4evr]

biku324 , thx for the info . Regards Paul

[biku324]

Paul, here's my load data from a few years ago.


Marlin 1894S, 20" MG barrel; S&W 544, 5" barrel:

44-40 200 grain Nosler JHP, Starline cases, CCI 300 caps, and

-18.0 grains 2400 (it shoots very well in the 1894S)
Rifle - 1389 fps, ev 1351-1453
Revolver - 1139 fps, ev 1128-1158

- 8.5 grains Unique, a great revolver load
Rifle - 1095 fps, ev 1050-1145
Revolver - 897 fps, ev 841-971

-16.0 grains AA#9
Rifle - 1183 fps, ev 1120-1301
Revolver - 833 fps, ev 807-857.

I finished up my search for the upper end of Longshot 44-40 data; at 12.0 grains, extreme spreads grew quickly. There was still no primer flattening nor unusual case expansion, but if I want a magnum, I'll buy one.

The 'sweet spot' for consistent velocities with this caliber/powder/bullet combination lies between 10.5 and 11.5 grains, with the very lowest extreme spread (ES) at 11.0 grains, which provides 976 fps mean velocity in the Smith and 1344 fps in the Marlin. I think I'll edge upward at 0.1 grain increments to find the best accuracy between 10.5 and 11.5 grains.

The weather was 70 degrees with about 10-15 mph winds. The data is also for 5-shot groups.

Charge Weight     S&W Mean Velocity   Extreme Spread     Marlin Mean Vel   Extreme Spread

11.0 grains               976 fps                     63 fps                   1344 fps            48 fps
11.5 grains             1,018 fps                    72 fps                   1414 fps           121 fps
12.0 grains             1101 fps                   298 fps                   1499 fps           290 fps

I've found 'the' load. It's 11.2 grains of Longshot behind the 200 grain Nosler. It gives me 1005 fps mean velocity with the Smith, 1421 fps with the Marlin; ES is 68 fps revolver, 81 fps rifle, and the groups reflect the consistency. I tried 10.8 to 11.8 grains in .2 grain increments; 11.2 was the 2nd best for ES, but far and away the most accurate. Groups were round, symmetric with no stringing; at 25 yards I chewed the center out of my homemade targets with 20 rounds from the Smith after sight adjustment, and the nearly same at 75 yards with the Marlin, which also required sight adjustment (no fun with the Williams 5D, by the way). Second best was 11.4 grains with slightly larger groups and an extra 23 fps revolver and 34 fps rifle, but I'll stick with best groups and lower pressures.

[glenncal1]

Some people seem to look at the commemorative guns with some disfavor. I think they often overlook the underlying basic gun. IMHO any 5" N-Frame is a great gun, having one in 44-40 is icing on the cake. I wonder if there would be more interest in these guns if they were just plain jane N-frames.

p.s. the finish on the commemorative guns is usually extremely nice.

[STCM(SW)]

I gave my M544 to my SIL who lives in Houston, TX

[biku324]

The grips with cutouts on both sides I've never seen on other Smiths.

[Smith61]

This and the 5" M27 are grail guns for me

[biku324]

For shooting or collecting?

[colt_saa]

All of the S&W enthusiasts here in this thread are probably familiar with the revolver that is most often called the Model 544 Texas Wagon Train Commemorative.

However most of the S&W community is only familiar with the standard edition. This is a 5" blue steel N-frame chambered in 44-40 and housed in a basswood presentation case. This was S&W product code 103195

While the revolver depicts the Texas Wagon Train, it was built to commemorate the Texas Sesquicentennial (150th birthday). The Sesquicentennial Commission had reserved a serial number block to produce 7800 revolvers. However, this commemorative was a failure and only 4782 were manufactured.

The first 150 revolvers were Deluxe editions, product code 103196. These had engraving and gold wire line work along with hand scrimshawed, coke shaped, Elephant Ivory target stocks. The hammer, trigger, cylinder release and ejector rod are all gold plated. The Sesquicentennial Commission also had a bronze Texas Longhorn produced for the Deluxe version of the model 544. These bronzes are signed and numbered to match the Deluxe revolvers. There is also a large medallion that was produced and included.

All of this fits into a large presentation case with glass on 5 sides. The lid that opens up on a set of hinges. This huge case is mounted on a lazy-susan so that it can be rotated and viewed from any angle.

My family has owned one of each variation for a while. The deluxe is presently in the library at the family house. I acquired a second Model 544 Texas Wagon Train Deluxe Commemorative about 5 years ago. One of the various reasons behind the second purchase is that I like serial numbers. This new acquisition is serial number 44 of the Model 544 chambered in 44-40.

I have often referred to the Model 544 Texas Wagon Train as one of Smith and Wesson's finest presentations of one of their worst selling Commemeratives.

YouTube

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[biku324]

Sir, that is truly a museum piece - I am in awe!!! Just amazing!

[Smith61]

Originally Posted by biku324

For shooting or collecting?

Both! Either makes me happy

[biku324]

Happiness is indeed a 5" N-frame!

[biku324]

For those in need, Buffalo Bore now has their heavy 44-40 185 grain copper rounds in stock. Advertised at 1,042 fps from a 544.

[dsf]

Alot of the Smith commemoratives are listed as Curio & Relic which means those of us with Type 03 FFLs can buy across state lines and through the mail. And in CA they are "roster exempt" so can be readily brought into the state via FFL Dealer.

I don't know how the heck I stumbled across mine am happy as heck with it. I kind of bounce back & forth between the issue target grips and factory service with BK adapter. I should bite the bullet and get older diamond types or coke copies from Eagle.

I'm surprised this gun doesn't get more attention. That it's not the typical Smith commemorative covered with "engraving" and gold - makes me like it more.

[biku324]

I suspect it's the caliber. I'd never owned a 44-40 and just had no clue how good it is. I'm not parting with my 2nd 544!

I've often wondered how demand would be if the commemorative had been issued in 45 Colt.

[Breakaway500]

The other day I popped into my local guns shop, and just about the only ammo on the shelf...waaay in the back..was 44-40. Still priced at pre-panic levels. I took all that was left. I'm SO greedy...

I've often wondered if a 544 could be fitted with a .44 Magnum cylinder and you could then shoot 44 special or magnum?

[biku324]

I've seen one 544 for sale that had a 44 mag cylinder fitted aftermarket. Seems like a waste of money. Likewise, my 544 in 44-40 will handle 240-250 grain bullets to 850 fps with no trouble, so 44 Special conversion seems pointless.

[Dave.357]

I bought a 544 a couple years ago,
bought new Starline brass and
Picked up a set of RCBS dies.
I have never had time to cast
bullets for it so it just lays in
safe. I have read where you
can't hit barn door with them
And you can shoot wings off
Of fly in flight. I think truth
lies some where In between.
Like every thing else they are
not getting cheaper, so if you
want a .44-.40 now would be
the time.

[cowboy4evr]

I would love to have a 544 , but not at the current prices . I'm a patient sort . It would compliment my Marlin 1894 in 44-40 , one of the first made . So , in the mean time I load rounds in 44 magnum cases equivalent to the 44 special / 44-40 and shoot them in my 4 " 29 using a 225 gr cast swc . Sometimes " reason and common sense " has to prevail , depending on your circumstances . Regards Paul

[colt_saa]

Originally Posted by dsf

Alot of the Smith commemoratives are listed as Curio & Relic which means those of us with Type 03 FFLs can buy across state lines and through the mail. And in CA they are "roster exempt" so can be readily brought into the state via FFL Dealer.

Smith & Wesson submits ALL of the Commemoratives to the C&R list as Curios

[biku324]

Originally Posted by Dave.357

I bought a 544 a couple years ago,
bought new Starline brass and
Picked up a set of RCBS dies.
I have never had time to cast
bullets for it so it just lays in
safe. I have read where you
can't hit barn door with them
And you can shoot wings off
Of fly in flight. I think truth
lies some where In between.
Like every thing else they are
not getting cheaper, so if you
want a .44-.40 now would be
the time.

Both of mine have shot as well as any other of my big bore Smith's.

[HappyJack]

From what I understand is that the original 44WCF did use the .427 bullet. And bores and cylinder throats to match. But depending on manufacturer and date they can vary with more modern chamberings. As some start out with original specs and then move to the current slightly larger ones. As with my Uberti 1866. Reloading can be an issue if your dies are made for the .427 bullet and you try to stuff a .429 or .430 bullet in the thin wall case. Or the other way around. I read some where the 35 gr.s of 2f black powder under a 200 gr. lead bullet made the good numbers posted above of just over 1000 fps. That is to hot for my 66 and rings the side plates. But BP cleans up really well for me. Albeit messy to shoot. And if you are close enough you will set the bad guy on fire. And have a smoke screen to get away. I have Longshot so if I can find bullets I will most likely try that. But you never know. Might make it a smoke wagon.

[biku324]

Both of mine have (and had) .428" throats and .429" barrels.

[HappyJack]

Originally Posted by biku324

Both of mine have (and had) .428" throats and .429" barrels.

Yes I believe this to be true for the 544. Just saying that the reloading dies can be made for the original .427 WCF and prep the cases for that size bullet. And if you do have another firearm that was patterned for the original WCF you can have dies that are made to prep the case for a .429 bullet.

[Nightowl]

I bought a 544 a month or so ago with the intention of shooting it. I'm glad I bought with that intention, even at that, it was hard to do at first. It looked and felt like it just left the factory. The barrel accepts the same size pin gauge as my other .44s, so it must be a Magnum barrel. The throats are .427, and I am shooting .428 lead Missouri Bullet co .44-40 bullets through it. It shoots as good as I can at 7 yards. I traded into some old jacketed Winchester .44-40 ammo, and that stull shoots very good too. So far, I have loaded 7.0 and 7.5 grains of Unique behind the 200 grain MBC bullet. I have had all the cases stick a little at the back, MagTech seems the worst, but the Winchester and Starline do too. Just a little tap and they break free. It is just a nuisance, but I would like to get it corrected. That was the reason that I went from my original load of 7.5 gr. Unique down to 7.0, but it made little difference. I think I will go back to 7.5. It is still over a grain below Max in the Lyman manual.
The Lyman manual lists it sized the lead bullets to .429!
I have only smashed one case neck, which was entirely my fault, as I did not readjust the sizing die after cleaning.
Anyway, I really like the 5 inch N frame .44. It balances very nicely, shoots good and looks great.

[Nightowl]

I noticed that the hammer spur on the target hammer is much more curved than the hammer spurs on my other .44s. I have checked the photos and cannot really see that the other photos show this except the Deluxe version in post 20.

Anyone else have one like that?

[cowboy4evr]

I have begun thinking that instead of trying to find a 44-40 in a revolver , maybe it just makes more sense to sell my wonderful 1894 Marlin in 44-40 with just a 3 digit serial # 5XX . Instead of trying to find a revolver in caliber to match my rifle , just sell the rifle then won't need the revolver . Like I said , just thinking right now . Regards Paul

[HappyJack]

Originally Posted by Nightowl

I noticed that the hammer spur on the target hammer is much more curved than the hammer spurs on my other .44s. I have checked the photos and cannot really see that the other photos show this except the Deluxe version in post 20.

Anyone else have one like that?

I picked this one a week or so ago. Box has a few dings and nothing other than the box and revolver. Selller said it had never been fire but it had a little bit. Got it for about 1/2 what the looks to be safe queens on gunbroker are going for and wanted a shooter. Took the original grips off to get ready to take it to the range. Feels really nice and great trigger. Can't wait to shoot it. I never pay much attention to the hammer on a double action as I don't use them but is this what you are asking?

[Nightowl]

I don't believe I have ever noticed a target hammer with this much curve in it. Certainly, my other model 29s are not.

I checked a couple of the others for sale on that famous gun auction site, and some had curves and some not.

I think it has the best profile of any of the target hammers. Does anyone know if this is just a 544 profile?

[bgrafsr]

Here's mine. Had one years ago and sold it, and got the bug to get another one.

[biku324]

That sounds like a familiar story!

[HappyJack]

Originally Posted by Nightowl

I don't believe I have ever noticed a target hammer with this much curve in it. Certainly, my other model 29s are not.

I checked a couple of the others for sale on that famous gun auction site, and some had curves and some not.

I think it has the best profile of any of the target hammers. Does anyone know if this is just a 544 profile?

Seems to my eyes your hammer spur has the same curve but is longer than mine. IDK. Maybe they changed or used different ones for some reason.

[HappyJack]

What holsters are everyone using for this? I am looking for a right hand belt holster. Thumb break leather for a 5" barrel. Found a Galco but it has an exposed barrel. They have a maybe enclosed cross draw but I want strong hand. Desantis has 6.5" or 4". Or should I just do a custom order?

[cowboy4evr]

Contact Dave LeFleur @ " Cochise Leather Company " . He has made several holsters for me . He's a one man shop so don't take up a lot of his time on the phone , quick call or email . Regards Paul

[biku324]

Originally Posted by HappyJack

What holsters are everyone using for this? I am looking for a right hand belt holster. Thumb break leather for a 5" barrel. Found a Galco but it has an exposed barrel. They have a maybe enclosed cross draw but I want strong hand. Desantis has 6.5" or 4". Or should I just do a custom order?

I've used El Paso Saddlery leather on both I've owned. One is the #2 thumbreak, one their Double Agent, a concealment holster that has two belt positions. They fit these to the revolver, and both are absolutely perfect. They're about $100-$125.

[greenmachine]

Mine really likes the Tennessee Valley 200 grain .427 RN with 7.0 grains 231.

[HappyJack]

Originally Posted by biku324

I've used El Paso Saddlery leather on both I've owned. One is the #2 thumbreak, one their Double Agent, a concealment holster that has two belt positions. They fit these to the revolver, and both are absolutely perfect. They're about $100-$125.

I really like the Strongside Select but it is not listed for an N frame. I may give them a call and see if they can do one for me. If not the #2 Thumbreak will do. Thanks to all who replied for the help. Take care and stay safe.

[biku324]

Like everyone else, EPS is backed up a little right now - their products are worth the wait, IMO.

[Muley Gil]

Back about 2004, I found one for sale on the internet. I was in Afghanistan at the time and was able to talk with the seller via satellite phone. He described it as having very little finish, but the price was very low, so I bought it. When I went home on leave, I went by my LGS and there it was, all pitted to heck. However, it was still a 5" .44 N frame. The bore and chambers were spotless and when I got around to shooting it, it was very accurate. I had a M29-3 cylinder fitted, but I only shoot .44 Specials. I asked Roy Jinks about fitting the .44 cylinder and he told me that the M544 frames did NOT receive the same heat treatment as the M29 frames.

I need to get out and shoot it some more, though I'll probably not send too many rounds downrange until the ammo and reloading supply crisis eases some.