Brownell’s Smyth Busters talks about old vs MIM.

Smyth Busters: Are Old Smith & Wessons Better Than New Ones? - YouTube

If i found 1000 dollars on the ground and had to choose between buying a new s&w or turning the money in..... The money gets turned in ,

If you do find $1,000 on the ground, it's mine.
Thank you very much.

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Ubi Est Mea

The new guns are better overall, and more consistent. My only problem with S&W as it operates today is that they no longer do QC. Every revolver should be checked for timing and B/C gap before it leaves the factory. Any idiot can be trained to do those checks.

Have both. Love both. Fully expect to buy more of both in the future. Each has it’s place. All of my blued guns are pre-lock. They are beautiful! The new guns shoot very well and I shoot them without as much concern for wear and tear as the old ones. Buy what makes you happy!
Hugh


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Spot on! I have some modern S&Ws that are amazing shooters.

Yeah, I know the newer guns are stronger, most are reliable and probably safer.

BUT the old production guns were made differently. No MIM parts. Hand fitted. Smooth in operation. Meticulously made to lock up perfectly. Finely finished, either blued or nickeled. A joy to see and handle. Old-time craftsmanship was evident from stocks to muzzle. Careful quality control, also.

Here are two examples from the past. An M&P blued example from 1923, and a nickeled M&P from 1939. Feast your eyes, because you will not find sucn beautiful and smooth-operating guns made today. The current guns seem to be slap-dash "just put-the-parts-together and get 'em out the door" sloppy QC firearms.

John

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Mythbuster
The new S&W Model 19 Classic ~ A S&W Armorer's Review - YouTube
Fast forward to 6:00 but the whole 50 minutes is worth watching.

The "new" ultra-light revolvers are a joy to own. I have a 43C that is now the wifes. I let her shoot it once...mistake..

Personally, I reject all post-1997 S&W revolvers. If you like them, that's your choice. A large segment of my collection is postwar, pre-1957 guns, and in comparing the fit, finish and mechanics to new guns, the new stuff leaves me cold. Here are a couple of my favorites. The one on the left is a Model of 1950 (45acp) and a first year Highway Patrolman.

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I expect my kids or grand kids, to get a better return on my 'pre' revolvers when I'm gone.
The only ones I own are pre-lock. They have a better trade/sale value in my neighborhood. That's important to a small time collector like myself.
Not saying I will never own one with a hole in it, but I have no plans to.

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Someone needs to tell the youngster that pomade and long sideburns went out a long time ago

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Along with hand-fitted firearm parts.

PALADINsaid:

[QUOTE][/The current guns seem to be slap-dash "just put-the-parts-together and get 'em out the door" sloppy QC firearms.QUOTE]

Might as well buy a Charter Arms gun.

The newer Smiths are functional guns, they just don’t have the aesthetic appeal of the older Smiths. The newer guns lack the elegance of the older Smiths.

A Mossberg pump shotgun functions fine as does a Ruger red label shotgun, but no one would mistake them for older M12’s or Parkers in terms of fit, finish, function or elegance.

[quote=message_board_expert;140978148]PALADINsaid:

Nope. Not even close. I’ve found Charter Arms’ current offerings to be mediocre. S&W at its worst is a hundred times better.

If it weren't for the lock and the recontouring of some frames to accommodate it, all of the money I've spent tracking down older S&Ws would've happily been put toward purchasing new models. I don't mind the MIM parts, CNC machining, or two-piece barrels. They probably help quite a bit as far as consistency and ease of installation and overall repairability are concerned.

Fact, my two new s&w m58 and m57 had two different feeling triggers. One was smoother than the other, even the let off was different. I opened up the rougher one and lubed it with moly. Now both revolvers actions are pretty much the same now. I like my revolvers to have the same feel trigger wise. I have both new and old revolvers. Enjoy them.

Hint, most manufacturers don’t have a QC department. It’s up to the machine operator to check his first part then run them. Colt made this change in the late 70’s to early 80’s. That’s when they were lacking in quality control.

Two piece barrels? No talent is needed in fitting a two piece barrel, the one piece barrel takes a craftsman. Cost reduction savings.done in Less time.

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Plant garlic in the fall

The mullet is dead,,,,,lol,,,,Elvis has left the building.

Today snap them together like legos and hope we get a good one so far I’m at 4 for 4 good ones that’s 100% so far. Do I feel lucky?

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Plant garlic in the fall

I have just one MIM revolver, a 627PC 2.625" 8-shot. The MIM stuff does show, however, one can always buff it out. But then one would complain, "...it dun't match!..."

Pick your poison...

Chrysler K cars were hand fitted.

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Sure you did

Me...I've not got a problem with MIM parts, but I cannot tolerate the unnecessary lock on the S&W's. It's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist and IMO it's a political move that S&W made that is no longer relevant. I don't own and will not own a S&W with the current lock system.

Don

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Laus Deo! <><

After watching all 50 minutes I find it hard to argue with this guy-I really do. As far as comparing a Parker to a Red Label, I've shot both and quite frankly would take the Red Label over the Parker purely for durability concerns.
I will probably take a second look a the new 66 over the new Kimber as a result of this video. May even rethink the 69 , Just because something can now be built faster, easier and better over a craftsman working by candlelight with a couple of files doesn't mean it is bad. Hell remember the reason why guns were blued in the first place because it was the only way to prevent rust at the time. Today we can bypass that step by using stainless. It ain't your darry's han dgun but then again would you rather use your daddy's slide rule or the new calculator app on your I phone
Hell even though I still like using a sextant, I'm not going back to the printed tables but use a navigation calculator to plug in the figures. ANd GPS is STILL more accurate.

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When tomorrow gets here it’ll be today. The new guns must be affordable and durable. If this younger crowd doesn’t fire the guns then our future as collectors will be in question. You can continue to question management’s decisions over the last 30 years but remember the company sold many times and you could have bought it . Step up a new owner could drop mim parts and key locks .

This makes me laugh for two reasons. First, because my fellow counselor is right; just ask him the difference between wading through a massive law library versus modern computerized searching for legal references and precedents.

Second, keep your maps handy. If we ever have a real war the first thing the enemy will do is go after the GPS satellites - that's why they formed a Space Command! It's not a Star Wars problem, it's a right here in River City problem.

That amusement behind me, I still have my precious, 40 year old, clean as a whistle 2" Model 10:



And it has friends equally aged and even worn they are top notch revolvers.

M10 .357 Magnum



M649



I just dropped those in here because they're old and there are not enough pictures in this thread. I have several much more recent S&W revolvers that I am very fond of and I have no issues with their ILs or anything else.

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Come and take it!!

The difference in new versus old is that I am willing to own and use the old ones.

The new ones are for someone else who believes in them.

It must be remembered that those
who out of hand reject the newer
S&W revolvers have delicate hammer
noses which can easily be bent out
of shape. Or broken off!

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Ubi Est Mea

I just got back from a LGS where I had to use for FFL for a present to daughter. While there, I saw a hand cannon S&W 629, .44 Magnum. It had the lock, in the used gun cabinet. It just got there yesterday they said. I got to play with it. One of the employees wanted it bad, but that's not their policy. It was marked $750. The action was better than any revolver I ever held. Double action was comparable to any of my revolvers' single action. I was really tempted to put 25% down with 90 days to pay it off. I just can't believe I walked away! Three of the employees were going over it, as the shop was pretty empty by this time. The one guy said there were no "bad" marks in the usual places. I just don't NEED the gun at this time. I am really thinking about taking my GP100s (.327 FedMagnums), just bought new within this past 10 months and see if they want to make a trade for one. It will be gone soon, I'm sure. There was a .357 magnum S&W beside it, a 7-shot I believe, maybe 8; can't remember, but its action didn't compare to the 629. It's probably the most popular shop in Pittsburgh, known for the gunsmith that owns the store. Beretta guys know this man. I'm going down to the South Hills again tomorrow to see my daughter, but I think there will be 2 GP100s in my car, just in case!

Ho-hum. Pass the popcorn. Yada yada yada. If you like new S&W revolers with locks and MIM parts, more power to you. The old geezer in the video is probably more right than wrong, and probably made some valid points, but I have never had a hammer nose break, nor have I ever replaced anything more than old springs for preventive maintenance. Many of my guns are post-war, pre-1957 and made REALLY well. I love having to look hard for the sideplate seam or where the yoke meets the frame. I like the smooth actions that are not duplicated in the new ones, IMO. And yes, I shoot them all. Almost all of the problematic guns I (we) read about are new ones. Shoot what you like and like what you shoot. By the way, I like old DA Colts, too. Everyone be safe and well.

I like older guns of any type but will buy and did buy a new S&W as well. I recently bought a new 625 JM because I wanted a 45 acp revolver and I got it for a lot less than any of the older models I found. I was buying it to shoot not to collect and the lock does not bother me.

I expect that, at the time, there were torches and pitchforks out en mas when the pinned barrels and recessed cylinders went away as well.

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"You're messin' up my Zen"

You’re right! And the P&R guns are still more desirable than their replacements: compare prices on comparable used examples (eg a m29-2 vs a m29-3).

To whom would you be addressing that remark? Oh, I see. Smith & Wesson collectors. Got it. WE KNOW. Do you think it's common knowledge in the gun buying public of 2020?

The sellers know it, too.

But Joe Dokes, average gun buyer, just wants a gun. He ain't fussy about pinned, recessed, MIM, IL, whatever. "Does it shoot? Will it save my life? Here's my credit card."

Some of us are almost that casual about it as well but that's a horse of a different color because we KNOW the difference. Just don't care.

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Come and take it!!

Yes, much anguish and lamentations.

And before that a hot debate raged over
long actions vs. short actions.

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Ubi Est Mea

So, now I'm at a point after watching the 50 min. video, I just may go down to that gun shop and hope that revolver is still there in the AM. Looking at the NEW prices on the 629, I need to really check that gun out. I think I need it. I don't need two Ruger GP100s. Lifetime warranty on the S&Ws? $750 may be high, but...somebody talk me out of it. Please! I don't want to be a collector, just a shooter. I don't have a .44 Mag. Yet.

I used to play Sax and bought a couple of Selmer Mark VI horns in 1966. These were hand made in a small factory in Paris. They were and still are considered some of the best saxes ever produced. The downside was the inconsistency from one instrument to the other. When you bought one you found a dealer that had a good stock of them and played each one until you find the one you liked. They are truly beautiful instruments in appearance, tonality and craftsmanship. The downside was inconsistency and when you needed a repair you had to find a technician that could hand fit parts. Parts weren’t interchangeable in many cases from horn to horn. Cost of the instrument was high and repairs high.

Today instruments manufacturing is much more automated using modern production methods. The result has been much more consistent instruments and lower production cost. Repairs are easier and parts more interchangeable.

I think the same is true about firearms. Although I love the romance of vintage instruments and guns, new automated and mass produced products won’t keep me from buying them.

If Smith built revolvers the way they used to and charged for it, the "new" Smiths might look a lot better to prospective buyers.

I carry a 340SC daily. I do so because it weighs less than 12 ounces. It serves a purpose but it has no soul. It’s the only handgun I own that was made after 1970. My prewar guns move me, make my heart beat a bit faster. Later guns are merely tools.

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SWHF #691

The new guns are better overall, and more consistent. My only problem with S&W as it operates today is that they no longer do QC. Every revolver should be checked for timing and B/C gap before it leaves the factory. Any idiot can be trained to do those checks.
Oh hummmm..well ive seen that in the Aviation Industry, Beat it to fit paint it to match... the Mantra of the Major Airline I use to work for.

A bunch of you guys must have been really upset when cranks were no longer standard equipment and they put those unreliable electric self starters on cars.

Can I use the Grand to buy a M&P in 9mm, full size and extra magazines?

So?

John

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I love the old ones, but the new ones have their place in my collection. It's hard to beat 8 shots of .357 Magnum in an N- Frame revolver...

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

That's understandable. So do I! This one is from 1977.

John

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The Wisdom of Red Green - Resisting Change - YouTube

In a way, this sums up the whole new
vs. old debate.

It's comes down to old being art objects
with the new being "merely tools" which
make pro-revolvers people happy, happy
that wheel guns are still made.

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Ubi Est Mea

I think you nailed it Ed.

I see what you did there

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WHAAAAT ??????,,,,, Dylan used an electric guitar ??????

I wont buy one with a hole. It's kind of like seeing oil under a new Corvette. My wife bought a 637 and it leads the barrel really bad.