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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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  #51  
Old 02-09-2021, 10:29 PM
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I would keep at it with the lag screw. Eventually you would not have much bullet left. You could get a big brass screw and braze it to a 5/16 brass rod to be near bore diameter with your puller, Use a die to tread the muzzle end of the rod, double nut the rod and thread it in to the squib well, remove double nut and then use a couple washers with grease between them on the muzzle and then use the a nut to pull on the rod. But your pounding on the bullet with its base against something probably swelled it up in the forcing cone. If you had to the barrel can be removed by cutting off the ejector rod and center pin at the yoke face. I would do that by placing the barrel in a milling machine and using a 1/8" end mill to first cut the pin then work back to real close to yoke. A pin and rod are not that spendy. Cutting through a lead bullet with a jewelers saw seems like a good way to damage your cylinder face or barrel extension. Plus lead will fill the teeth up fast. If I went that way I would drill out as much of the squib as possible first. a piece of something like a feeler gauge in between case head and recoil shied is a good idea. With that in place it wouldn't make me that nervous.

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  #52  
Old 02-09-2021, 10:30 PM
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I would try the .36 caliber puller from Buffalo Arms. Wouldn’t hurt now. Ultimately, you may end up destroying the rifling. But, if successful, you can replace the barrel. Just my 0.02.
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  #53  
Old 02-09-2021, 11:01 PM
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I would get a 5/32 drill from home depot
long enough to drill thru the squib and
the bullet in the chamber. Go real slow
like it's an auger. Once I drilled thru
the bullet in the chamber I would kill
the round with WD-40.

At that point you have a weapon you can work on.
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Old 02-09-2021, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick B View Post
This has to be the weirdest revolver jam Iíve ever heard of .
Not so fast. I worked in a gun shop in Colorado years ago and had a revolver come in with 3 wadcutters stacked in the barrel. Only reason the guy stopped pulling the trigger was because the fourth on jammed the cylinder like this one.
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Old 02-09-2021, 11:42 PM
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The jeweler's saw sounds to be worth a try, if it is not wider than the barrel/cylinder gap.

I would also contact factory customer service, describe your predicament (especially the loaded round thing) and see what they can offer. I bet after almost 170 years of business that they have seen and dealt with this problem before.
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  #56  
Old 02-10-2021, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serger View Post
I would get a 5/32 drill from home depot
long enough to drill thru the squib and
the bullet in the chamber. Go real slow
like it's an auger. Once I drilled thru
the bullet in the chamber I would kill
the round with WD-40.

At that point you have a weapon you can work on.
I thought about that but my hands and face are exposed in the meantime to a live round.

I just thought of something: a solvent. I have a bunch of Sweets 7.62. That stuff is toxic as hell and eats copper for breakfeast. I may fill the barrel up with it, since it is stainless, and let it just sit and eat the bullet out. Not so sure how it works on lead but considering how aggressive it is, it may work.

What about hydrogen peroxide? Google says it eats lead quickly.
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  #57  
Old 02-10-2021, 12:48 AM
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I'd avoid the H2O2 - probably not good for the steel - even stainless can be made to rust.
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Old 02-10-2021, 12:52 AM
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Thank you for the pictures, it definitely helps me understand your situation. With that picture in mind I'll have to re-read the thread but I can't imagine how there could be a loaded round lined up with the barrel--a squib, yes, but a squib is usually caused by the primer detonation alone--no powder, hence not a live round.
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  #59  
Old 02-10-2021, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 460harry View Post
When I turned the cylinder by cocking it again from single action, I think the squid fell back into the cylinder on the next round. I felt like something was weird because I got such low velocity on the chronograph, so I lowered the hammer. I did not realize what had happened until I tried using a rubber mallet on the cylinder because I assumed the ejector pin had come loose again. By hitting it with the mallet I must have stuck the squib more firmly in place because for whatever reason the hammer will not cock again. I can however see the squib between the forcing cone and the cylinder, and of course looking down the barrel.
OK, let's see if I got this straight--you were shooting your revolver, presumably off a bench and chronographing your shots.

One shot recorded a low velocity, but you had already cocked the gun for the next shot, so you lowered the hammer on a live round and that's when the bullet (presumably stuck in the bore/forcing cone) "fell back" into the chamber mouth and got wedged in tight when you tried to open the cylinder with a mallet--right?

If your chronograph recorded a velocity for the last shot fired, something had to have exited the barrel, no? Perhaps because of the low velocity loading the bullet got stuck in the barrel, the lead core separated from the jacket and went out the barrel, thus giving you a velocity reading. The jacket would be pretty well lodged in the bore, so how could it "fall back" into the chamber on the next shot?

When you tried the lag screw did you get pieces of lead out of the stuck bullet? In other words, do you know if the lead core separated from the jacket?

If the jacket got stuck in the bore I don't see how it could shrink enough to fall free of the rifling and drop back into the chamber in the short period of time between firing the shot and cocking, then lowering the hammer (unless maybe it was very cold at your shooting point? Could cold weather have caused a jacket to "shrink up?" IDK nothing about cold weather--I'm in Honolulu.)

Was your bullet a Speer half-jacket by chance? I've read warnings about not using those particular bullets with reduced loads specifically because of the risk of core separation. For that matter, were you even shooting reloads or were they factory?
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  #60  
Old 02-10-2021, 02:16 AM
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Try the dental floss, it may take a while to get through but it will cut. I've seen where steel bars have been cut with it. Adding a bit of ajax or similar abrasive may speed things up. If this sounds like it won't work, just ask any Correctional Officer.
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Old 02-10-2021, 04:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 460harry View Post
I thought about that but my hands and face are exposed in the meantime to a live round.

I just thought of something: a solvent. I have a bunch of Sweets 7.62. That stuff is toxic as hell and eats copper for breakfeast. I may fill the barrel up with it, since it is stainless, and let it just sit and eat the bullet out. Not so sure how it works on lead but considering how aggressive it is, it may work.

What about hydrogen peroxide? Google says it eats lead quickly.
I use what they call the dip to clean my all stainless 22 silencer. It's a 50/50 mix of peroxide and white vinegar.

I put it in a old glass planters peanut jar and let it sit out in the garage over night. Put some heavy duty rubber gloves on, remove the silencer tube and mono core, and rinse with water. I've had it for 8 or 9 years and it looks as clean as the day I bought it.

The dip will not hurt glass, stainless or titanium. It will pretty much destroy anything else. A lot of people have ruined aluminum silencers with it.

*edit*

This person used it on non stainless. It did remove the lead thou. Still safe to use on stainless.

Warning Ė Using Hydrogen Peroxide & Vinegar to Remove Lead Will Etch Firearm Bores

Last edited by wood714; 02-10-2021 at 05:03 AM.
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  #62  
Old 02-10-2021, 05:58 AM
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In my old kit of small files, there is one that is not cut on the broad flat sides. It's only got teeth on the narrow edges. I'm not sure how wide the flash-gap is on your gun, but perhaps one of those special jeweler's files another member posted about would do the trick. It would be slow-going, but at least you'd work from the side/s of the gun, and not the muzzle.
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  #63  
Old 02-10-2021, 07:45 AM
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The gap should only be in the .006 range and I have some tiny files, have never seen one that thin. In fact I doubt you can find a jeweler saw blade that thin. MY research shows the smallest as a 0/6 at .007 with 76 teeth per inch. That means one stroke and you will probably have all the teeth full of lead as jacket bullets use real soft gummy lead. You could do it with a whole lot of patience
There is no reason you could not drill the center out of that bullet and for that matter the bullet in the live round. The live round might start turning but it is probably jammed tight by previous attempts to drive the squib into it. If you do end up cutting the squib with a real thin blade just cutting the jacket and a bit of lead would beat cutting every bit,

A long 5/16 (.3125 )drill with heat shrink tubing on it. In fact I would cut the actual drill part to about 3/8" long and resharpen it so that very little actual drill was in the barrel.

I would make every effort to pull the bullet first though. Although I would use caution and keep from in front of the bore, if I had the gun in a padded vise I would have little concern about it just firing. Unless something slams into the primer or gets it way hot it will not just decide to go bang.

But, I think the bullet is now swelled up from pounding on its nose, and stuck tight. If I had it in my hands and a couple attempts to pull the bullet failed. I would fixture the gun on my mill with open side of ejector shroud up, use a 1/8" carbide mill to cut the ejector rod off flush with front of yoke, then unscrew the barrel.

Your probably going to need a gun smith with a mill and a frame wrench.
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  #64  
Old 02-10-2021, 08:52 AM
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Are you sure there is a live round under the lodged bullet?

What loads are in the chamber? How much space between the end of the loaded cartridge and the front face of the cylinder?

If this revolver was brought to me when I was an armorer, I would be considering inserting a block between the firing pin and the primer of the round forward of the firing pin. I would then lock the revolver in a vise and use a range rod to tap the bullet back into the cylinder. Judging from the rod indicator in the OPís photograph, it does not have to be moved much to free the cylinder.

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Old 02-10-2021, 09:41 AM
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Count me among the perplexed that a squib can be sent with enough force to entirely enter the bore such that the cylinder can revolve to line up the next round, then same squib can "roll back" out of the bore with enough force to lodge across the bore, gap and charge hole divide and lock things up.

Curious physics, but it's a strange universe.

Anyway, the jewelers saw seems the best options if it clears gap, but in the absence of one, perhaps a narrow-enough feeler gauge can be used -- I assume with some determination and patience -- as a slicer.

Good luck, OP, and keep us posted.
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Old 02-10-2021, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldChief View Post
Try the dental floss, it may take a while to get through but it will cut. I've seen where steel bars have been cut with it. Adding a bit of ajax or similar abrasive may speed things up. If this sounds like it won't work, just ask any Correctional Officer.
this I want to see....
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Old 02-10-2021, 11:42 AM
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A bullet puller would probably have worked. The tread on a lag screw is way too coarse to get a purchase in the relatively short length of a pistol bullet
armorer951 has probably given you your best remaining option
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Old 02-10-2021, 11:55 AM
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Or steelslaver, I did not see his post while I was typing
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Old 02-10-2021, 12:07 PM
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Lead and copper melt at a lower temp than stainless.

Yeah, I know... just mentioning it because no one else has.


I'm in the "drill it out" camp... perhaps clamped on a lathe with the drill in the chuck.
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Old 02-10-2021, 12:14 PM
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And I thought MY 686 jam was weird.

I fired a jacketed round. A tiny sliver of jacket somehow got wedged in the cylinder gap and locked her up tight as a bank vault. If this had been an actual emergency, I would have been killed.

Don't let anybody tell you "Revolvers never / can't jam."
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Old 02-10-2021, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug44 View Post
Maybe you should remove the firing pin.
^I like the way this feller thinks!^
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Old 02-10-2021, 01:20 PM
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We're not even close to giving up.

The other "tool" that came to my mind is a dent puller slide hammer used by the auto body repair people. I'm wondering if you could use this tool, or as others have suggested, screw a threaded rod into the projectile, then use the puller (or a facsimile using a vise grip and hammer) to "pull" the projectile forward just enough to open and remove the cylinder.....and then simply tap out the stuck bullet.
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Old 02-10-2021, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wood714 View Post
I use what they call the dip to clean my all stainless 22 silencer. It's a 50/50 mix of peroxide and white vinegar.
Still safe to use on stainless.

Warning Ė Using Hydrogen Peroxide & Vinegar to Remove Lead Will Etch Firearm Bores
Need to mention that what is formed is lead acetate, a very toxic nasty.

"The Dip" - A Toxic Mixture Used To Clean Silencer Parts -The Firearm Blog
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Old 02-10-2021, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jc2721 View Post
For that matter, were you even shooting reloads or were they factory?
That's the question that's been nagging at me. Was this squib a factory load and, if so, was it of recent production and, more importantly, was it stored properly? I don't use factory ammo, but I hate to see reputable companies putting out potentially dangerous product. Squibs can be even more distatrous than ammo exceeding SAAMI pressure limits...if they go undetected during a shooting string.
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Old 02-10-2021, 07:53 PM
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If you plan to use a ďsawĒ of any type, you have a very good chance of scoring the barrel or cylinder face. Not something I would recommend.

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Old 02-10-2021, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikerjf View Post
Lead and copper melt at a lower temp than stainless.

Yeah, I know... just mentioning it because no one else has.


I'm in the "drill it out" camp... perhaps clamped on a lathe with the drill in the chuck.
This thread is becoming interesting....I do not think the melt temperature of lead will be healthy for a barrel, tempering and such.

I do tend to like the idea of inserting a protective aluminum tube and a long drill bit if that exists and drilling it out. If pushing the bullet down with a brass rod and jag won't work. Pushing it down into the live round with precautions (firing pin etc).
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Old 02-10-2021, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telecaster View Post
Until the live rounds are removed, this might be a good use of the IL.
I'd rather take a live round to the hand than have an IL
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Old 02-10-2021, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 460harry View Post
Squib bullet is backing out of the forcing cone just enough to reach the cylinder hole. Can't remove cylinder because the squib is locking the cylinder from the forcing cone, and there is a loaded round in the same cylinder hole the squib is backing into.

Is the gun gone? I see no safe way of fixing this. My only though is to perhaps try to get some kroil penetrating oil into the loaded round's gun powder to neutralize the gun powder and then mash the squib and the loaded bullet back into the case enough to open the cylinder.
A Gunsmith should be able to remove the barrel out of the frame then remove the bullets from the barrel. If he can't save the barrel, you would just need a new barrel.
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Old 02-10-2021, 10:22 PM
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I'm not recommending this. But if the firing pin is disabled, the round is not going to randomly "go off". So ...

Were this my problem and the B/C gap is too narrow to use a jewelers saw, I'd go with the long drill in a protective tube and drill out the offending bullet.

BUT - I'd set the drill up in a vise and hold the gun while running it into the drill bit. If it "went off" somehow it'd still be a mess but at least it wouldn't be pointed at me.

I'm not recommending anyone actually try this. Just participating in the conversation.
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Old 02-10-2021, 11:02 PM
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Do the above with a threaded rod into the bullet. Put a flat washer and nut onto the threaded rod sticking out of the bbl. Holding the rod with vice grips, turn the nut and pull bullet back into forcing cone. Open cylinder. Done.
Should only take a few minutes once you get e threaded rod.

Last edited by saemetric; 02-11-2021 at 11:39 PM.
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Old 02-11-2021, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
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Need to mention that what is formed is lead acetate, a very toxic nasty.

"The Dip" - A Toxic Mixture Used To Clean Silencer Parts -The Firearm Blog
Yes it is. That's why I mentioned to wear heavy duty rubber gloves.

As dangerous as it is, were only talking maybe an ounce at most of it.
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Old 02-11-2021, 12:46 AM
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Late to the show, didn't read more than the first couple of posts. If the bullet is still in the forcing cone, but back enough to block the cylinder, try this. I had the same thing happen not too long ago with my M-19-3. Prevailing wisdom seems to be trying to drive it back into the cylinder, but IMO you run the risk of putting undue strain on the cylinder and center rod, possibly inducing end play. What I did, and it worked perfectly, was to hold the gun muzzle down by the grip, and smack the muzzle with a plastic mallet like mechanics use. The plastic won't damage the barrel; the inertial force will drive the bullet further into the barrel, enough so you can unlock and open the cylinder. Then you take a wooden dowel and drive the bullet backwards through the forcing cone. You hold the gun firmly enough you don't drop it, but loosely enough it can move backwards rapidly when you smack the muzzle. It might take two-three sharp blows to move the bullet enough, but it will move.
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Old 02-11-2021, 02:04 AM
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You ought to phone Frank Glenn for suggestions.
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Old 02-11-2021, 02:33 AM
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Wow. Iím trying to picture this ...
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Old 02-13-2021, 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Tytan01 View Post
A Gunsmith should be able to remove the barrel out of the frame then remove the bullets from the barrel. If he can't save the barrel, you would just need a new barrel.
You can't unscrew the barrel with the cylinder and ejector rod in place.
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Old 02-13-2021, 07:32 AM
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You can't unscrew the barrel with the cylinder and ejector rod in place.
Actually, you can! It just messes up a lot of other parts.

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Old 02-13-2021, 07:54 AM
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Use a jewelers saw to slice it, and/or a long bit to progressively drill it out from the muzzle until the remaining shell is weak
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Old 02-13-2021, 10:21 AM
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YES Harry, there are smiths who will work on loaded guns....

J.
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Old 02-13-2021, 11:24 AM
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Maybe I'm missing something here, but it doesn't appear that the cylinder has rotated enough for the squib to be lodged into a chamber.

I would take out as much of the action out of the gun as possible, then without ruining the finish on the cylinder, rotate it backwards to an empty chamber then push the squib into it.

WR
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Old 02-13-2021, 12:23 PM
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You missing that the squib is stuck between the barrel and the cylinder. Even with no hand or cylinder stop the cylinder can't turn and the yoke will not swing out.

Here is another thought. take a coarse hack saw blade and grind it down to .006 thickness. It will work way better than a fine tooth jeweler saw

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Old 02-13-2021, 12:49 PM
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Where is the OP?
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Old 02-13-2021, 02:51 PM
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Where is the OP?
Last posting on 10 Feb.

Interesting, he had a similar prom with another revolver. That one was a 460.

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Old 02-13-2021, 02:55 PM
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I had something similar happen several years ago on a ruger. I took a wooden dowl piece and taped it to the hammer so it could not strike the firing pin. Put the gun in a vise and drilled all the way thru the squib. I then used a large screw (dont remember the size) wrapped in a couple layers of electrical tape. i threaded it down until it was snug. Then used a ratchet to slowly twist the peojectile backward. It took some effort and I stood off to the side during the process but it worked.
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Old 02-13-2021, 03:09 PM
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Nothing to say that hasnít been said but I wanted a post to make it easier to follow this to the end result! Seriously, take the sideplate off, remove all internals possible and work it from there. I will add that once the internals are removed, you have no cylinder stop or bolt to interfere with your cylinder possible allowing you to work this out easier.
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Old 02-13-2021, 03:35 PM
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I read this whole thread and feel like I missed the last 5 minutes of the movie. As for opinions, that projectile gotta go forward enough to open the cylinder then driven back and out. Not sure of the "best" way. Another opinion: this ain't happening with Speer premium factory ammo. Joe
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Old 02-13-2021, 06:52 PM
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Nothing to say that hasnít been said but I wanted a post to make it easier to follow this to the end result! Seriously, take the sideplate off, remove all internals possible and work it from there.
Once you removed the hand you should be able to remove just about everything. But why? With the side plate on the hammer block would remain in place and the hammer nose can't make it to the firing pin unless you went to banging on stuff with a sledge hammer. It would not hurt, but I don't see how it will help much. Neither the hand or the cylinder stop are what is stopping the cylinder from moving. The bullet stuck between barrel and cylinder is. Once it is removed, cut in half at gap or whatever the cylinder will open and the rest of bullet can be removed as can any live rounds.


NO OP for a while. Maybe we been had.

Last edited by steelslaver; 02-13-2021 at 06:53 PM.
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Old 02-13-2021, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
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Once you removed the hand you should be able to remove just about everything. But why? With the side plate on the hammer block would remain in place and the hammer nose can't make it to the firing pin unless you went to banging on stuff with a sledge hammer. It would not hurt, but I don't see how it will help much. Neither the hand or the cylinder stop are what is stopping the cylinder from moving. The bullet stuck between barrel and cylinder is. Once it is removed, cut in half at gap or whatever the cylinder will open and the rest of bullet can be removed as can any live rounds.


NO OP for a while. Maybe we been had.
Hopefully, not something worse working on a loaded revolver.
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Old 02-13-2021, 09:15 PM
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If you really want to render it safe use a long 1/4" drill and slowly work drill down trough the squib, then the live round under it and empty out the powder. as the barrel is plugged at the forcing cone once you got started you could keep the barrel full of light oil, keep the heat down and a soon are you went through the bullet on live round kill the powder.

But, then most of you have probably never welded on the side of a 12" pipe full of raw gasoline either.

Perfectly safe IF you know just what you are doing.
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Old 02-21-2021, 05:47 PM
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Did anyone ever hear what the outcome was with this?
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Old 02-22-2021, 11:18 PM
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edited

Got answered above while I was typing
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