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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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  #1  
Old 02-07-2021, 12:13 PM
460harry 460harry is offline
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Squib bullet is backing out of the forcing cone just enough to reach the cylinder hole. Can't remove cylinder because the squib is locking the cylinder from the forcing cone, and there is a loaded round in the same cylinder hole the squib is backing into.

Is the gun gone? I see no safe way of fixing this. My only though is to perhaps try to get some kroil penetrating oil into the loaded round's gun powder to neutralize the gun powder and then mash the squib and the loaded bullet back into the case enough to open the cylinder.
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Old 02-07-2021, 12:19 PM
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how? The squip should block the cylinder with the empty shell behind it, how could the cylinder have turned to the next round when then squip had blocked the cylinder from turning?
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Old 02-07-2021, 12:23 PM
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Well, a gun smith might be able to set it up in a mill and D&T the stuck bullet. Then screw in a long rod, like a cleaning rod, and pull the bullet out the front.
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Old 02-07-2021, 12:24 PM
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I once had to use a jeweler's saw to cut a lead squib. It is a tiny cable with diamond teeth that fit in the cylinder gap behind the forcing cone. Then I could open the cylinder and drive the squib out
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Old 02-07-2021, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oysterer View Post
how? The squip should block the cylinder with the empty shell behind it, how could the cylinder have turned to the next round when then squip had blocked the cylinder from turning?

Was wondering that also. As a RO I have cleared a lot of slugs trapped by pushing back into chamber/ empty case.
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Old 02-07-2021, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by tominboise View Post
Well, a gun smith might be able to set it up in a mill and D&T the stuck bullet. Then screw in a long rod, like a cleaning rod, and pull the bullet out the front.
Or remove the barrel
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Old 02-07-2021, 12:26 PM
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Squirt Kroil down the barrel. Let sit for a day.
If the round is a hollow point, insert a plastic soda straw into the barrel to protect it, put a flat washer over the muzzle end of the barrel,, and screw a lag screw through the flat washer into the hollowpoint to extract it. Measure the lag screw first to make sure it isn't long enough to reach the live round.

If the bullet is solid nose, run an undersize drill bit into te bullet first -usinh a drill stop to make sure you can't reach the live round, the perform the extraction described for the hollow point.

You might want to use a thin brass tube instead of a soda straw to provide more barrel protection

Last edited by JimCunn; 02-07-2021 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 02-07-2021, 12:34 PM
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Maybe you should remove the firing pin. What bullets you using. If a lead bullet might try drilling a hole thru the one stuck in the forcing cone then run a small screw into it with a fine piece of wire to pull the bullet a bit more into the forcing cone. Maybe a fine piece of wire like a guitar string between the cylinder and barrel to possibly cut the bullet into two pieces.
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Old 02-07-2021, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug44 View Post
Maybe you should remove the firing pin. What bullets you using. If a lead bullet might try drilling a hole thru the one stuck in the forcing cone then run a small screw into it with a fine piece of wire to pull the bullet a bit more into the forcing cone. Maybe a fine piece of wire like a guitar string between the cylinder and barrel to possibly cut the bullet into two pieces.
I removed the spacer between the hammer and the firing pin but cannot remove the firing pin itself because the gun's mechanics are jammed.
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Old 02-07-2021, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oysterer View Post
how? The squip should block the cylinder with the empty shell behind it, how could the cylinder have turned to the next round when then squip had blocked the cylinder from turning?
When I turned the cylinder by cocking it again from single action, I think the squid fell back into the cylinder on the next round. I felt like something was weird because I got such low velocity on the chronograph, so I lowered the hammer. I did not realize what had happened until I tried using a rubber mallet on the cylinder because I assumed the ejector pin had come loose again. By hitting it with the mallet I must have stuck the squib more firmly in place because for whatever reason the hammer will not cock again. I can however see the squib between the forcing cone and the cylinder, and of course looking down the barrel.
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Old 02-07-2021, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimCunn View Post
Squirt Kroil down the barrel. Let sit for a day.
If the round is a hollow point, insert a plastic soda straw into the barrel to protect it, put a flat washer over the muzzle end of the barrel,, and screw a lag screw through the flat washer into the hollowpoint to extract it. Measure the lag screw first to make sure it isn't long enough to reach the live round.

If the bullet is solid nose, run an undersize drill bit into te bullet first -usinh a drill stop to make sure you can't reach the live round, the perform the extraction described for the hollow point.

You might want to use a thin brass tube instead of a soda straw to provide more barrel protection
I saw a gunsmith do this on youtube just now. I believe I will try it.
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Old 02-07-2021, 12:48 PM
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Don't put any part of your body (including your eye ) in front of the barrel.
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Old 02-07-2021, 01:22 PM
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Isn't there a black-powder tool for removing balls? Has a threaded cone on the end?
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Old 02-07-2021, 01:49 PM
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Is there a factory round in there? 38 is a long round, if handloaded light maybe enough space to push the squib bullet and next bullet far enough back. I do. not believe there is a tool capable of pulling the bullet all the way through. Pushing back will be the only way with a strong sold brass rod and a 357 brass jag, cut the head pin off and hammer the squib back.
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Old 02-07-2021, 02:11 PM
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Put piece of cloth over the muzzle and firmly tap it against a bench to see if you can move the squib down bore enough to clear the forcing cone. If that fails you are into a bullet extractor from the muzzle. If that fails I guess you’re removing the barrel.
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Old 02-07-2021, 02:16 PM
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Default OOPS!

Have you tried bouncing the gun, muzzle first on a wooden block to see if the bullet will move away from the cylinder?

Sometimes the simplest way turns out to work just fine! But not usually for me!

(Looks like I was typing the same as the above post!)

Last edited by jjfitch; 02-07-2021 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 02-07-2021, 02:18 PM
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This has to be the weirdest revolver jam Iíve ever heard of .
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Old 02-07-2021, 02:26 PM
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I'm a revolver newbie with less experience than the op, but the main lesson I take from this is that taking a mallet to a revolver, especially a loaded one, is something I will avoid. If I'm ever tempted to do so, I'm heading to a gunsmith instead.

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Old 02-07-2021, 02:46 PM
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When all else fails ... remove the barrel ...
You need to know how to remove and reinstall a barrel and have the right tools to do it ... I would have my local gunsmith do the job ... but that's just me ... all I have is a pipe wrench and a metal vice and no skill.
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Old 02-07-2021, 02:56 PM
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Stick this down the barrel, then drill out the round through the tube with a long bit. Unsure of your barrel length but you'll need the length they use to drill through top plates in homes.

Then use a bigger bit and reverse run it until it backs out enough that you can remove the live round.

Remove the live round then continue with extraction.

Order 0.3125" OD x 0.049" Wall x 0.2145" ID Aluminum Round Tube 6061-T6-Drawn Online, Outer Diameter: 5/16", Wall: 0.049", Inner Diameter: 0.2145"
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Last edited by GaryHK; 02-07-2021 at 03:00 PM.
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Old 02-07-2021, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 460harry View Post
I felt like something was weird because I got such low velocity on the chronograph ...
I wonder that you got anything at all on the chronograph. It'll be interesting to see what comes out of that revolver. Some part of something must have left the barrel.
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Old 02-07-2021, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by GaryHK View Post
Stick this down the barrel, then drill out the round through the tube with a long bit. Unsure of your barrel length but you'll need the length they use to drill through top plates in homes.

Then use a bigger bit and reverse run it until it backs out enough that you can remove the live round.

Remove the live round then continue with extraction.

Order 0.3125" OD x 0.049" Wall x 0.2145" ID Aluminum Round Tube 6061-T6-Drawn Online, Outer Diameter: 5/16", Wall: 0.049", Inner Diameter: 0.2145"
How would this work? He'd have to drill through the squib to get to the live round. Even if he drilled into the live round, he still couldn't remove it with the squibbed round in place.

What am I not understanding?
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Old 02-07-2021, 03:21 PM
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You are essentially drilling a pilot hole in the squib, then using a larger bit to cut into the squib then reverse the drill. Lead is so soft that this should work.

My guess is that we are talking about no more than 1/4" to 3/8" of protrusion.

Your first priority is NOT removing the squib, it's removing the live round.

Need to give yourself room to unload the weapon FIRST, then continue getting rid of the squib.
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Last edited by GaryHK; 02-07-2021 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 02-07-2021, 03:37 PM
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I would add to buy a cheap feeler gauge set if you don't have one already and put the correct thickness feeler gauge between the cartridge and the firing pin and then try the suggestions mentioned above.

Good luck and may the force be with you.

Jayman
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Old 02-07-2021, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGNewell View Post
Or remove the barrel
How are you going to remove the barrel with the cylinder still in the gun??????
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Old 02-07-2021, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryHK View Post
You are essentially drilling a pilot hole in the squib, then using a larger bit to cut into the squib then reverse the drill. Lead is so soft that this should work.

My guess is that we are talking about no more than 1/4" to 3/8" of protrusion.

Your first priority is NOT removing the squib, it's removing the live round.

Need to give yourself room to unload the weapon FIRST, then continue getting rid of the squib.
Got it - you're wanting to back the squib out just enough to open the cylinder. After that it's hammer and dowel time.
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Old 02-07-2021, 03:45 PM
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Whatever you choose, remember that oil does NOT reliably kill primers. I know this from personal experience.
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Old 02-07-2021, 03:49 PM
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pictures are worth a thousand words, especially in this situation
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Old 02-07-2021, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikerjf View Post
Isn't there a black-powder tool for removing balls? Has a threaded cone on the end?
It's called a ball puller. It is basically a wood screw and collar that threads onto the end of the ramrod. You jam it into the stuck ball and screw it into place and then pull the ball out of the barrel.

I would fill the gap between the case head and the recoil shield with feeler gauges to keep the firing pin/hammer nose away from the live round.
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Old 02-07-2021, 03:53 PM
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Got it - you're wanting to back the squib out just enough to open the cylinder. After that it's hammer and dowel time.
Yep. The closest route is through the forcing cone anyway.
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Old 02-07-2021, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peak53 View Post
I once had to use a jeweler's saw to cut a lead squib. It is a tiny cable with diamond teeth that fit in the cylinder gap behind the forcing cone. Then I could open the cylinder and drive the squib out
What Peak said.
East peasy.
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Old 02-07-2021, 04:32 PM
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Stick a rod down the barrel until it meets the obstruction and mark it for depth and check it against the outside of the barrell to see how far the bullet is in the barrel. Might give you a better idea on how to proceed. But, the safest bet is it to take it to the gunsmith.
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Old 02-07-2021, 05:13 PM
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Why do you think there is a live round in the charge hole that the stuck bullet just left?
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Old 02-07-2021, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLT223 View Post
Put piece of cloth over the muzzle and firmly tap it against a bench to see if you can move the squib down bore enough to clear the forcing cone. If that fails you are into a bullet extractor from the muzzle. If that fails I guess youíre removing the barrel.
I did the barrel tap and it did not work. I am going to do the lag screw trick, pull the bullet slightly into the barrel, just far enough so that I can clear the cylinder, remove the cylinder and then push the squib back out the forcing cone.
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Old 02-07-2021, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muley Gil View Post
How are you going to remove the barrel with the cylinder still in the gun??????
My thoughts exactly.

And if the squib is blocking the cylinder so you canít swing it out, how on earth could you turn the cylinder so there is a live round behind the squib??
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Old 02-07-2021, 05:34 PM
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hi folks, does this revolver not have a hammer block?
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Old 02-07-2021, 05:44 PM
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hi folks, does this revolver not have a hammer block?
It should. However, I have opened up a few S&Ws over the years and found that someone had removed the hammer block. Some folks ain't got no sense.
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Old 02-07-2021, 06:26 PM
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Agreed on dousing everything the thinnest penetrating oil you have and let sit for a few hours.
Then popping off the sideplate and firing pin. Leave out the hammer and hammer spring.
get an x-acto blade and push the projectile into the forcing cone.
Using a rubber mallet, gently tap the cylinder open. Hopefully everything is lubed up and slides open quickly.
On second thought. Just pay a gunsmith for the headaches.

Remember to ask if your smith replaced the hammer block
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Old 02-07-2021, 06:48 PM
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For this "Safety Thing":
Perhaps just loosen/ remove the straincrew (+ mainspring) ?

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Old 02-07-2021, 07:14 PM
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I wonder if anyone makes a long skinny ez out? Looking at my tools as we speak I have a very skinny, approx 1/8" ez out but, of course, it's way too short.
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Old 02-07-2021, 07:22 PM
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"I wonder if anyone makes a long skinny ez out?"

Yes, muzzle loading bullet puller.
Try a .36 caliber puller from Buffalo Arms.
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Old 02-07-2021, 08:04 PM
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Or find one of your friends who shoot muzzleloaders
"first the powder then the ball" is a rule we sometimes forget.
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  #43  
Old 02-07-2021, 08:45 PM
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Until the live rounds are removed, this might be a good use of the IL.
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  #44  
Old 02-07-2021, 09:25 PM
JimCunn JimCunn is offline
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The puller only costs about $3.
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Old 02-09-2021, 01:12 PM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is offline
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Well 460harry, did you get the squib out???
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  #46  
Old 02-09-2021, 09:16 PM
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Dentists have a floss that is abrasive. They use it for insuring a space between teeth for flossing after a filling is installed. Maybe some if that will saw through the squibb? Hope it is lead
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  #47  
Old 02-09-2021, 09:31 PM
460harry 460harry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muley Gil View Post
Well 460harry, did you get the squib out???
Negative. I tried using a 6" lag screw, but it ripped out the lead (hollow point). Could not get a good grip, and honestly I was scared ****less having my hands that close to a loaded gun. I certainly do not recommend that you try, ever.

Next I tried to tap the bullet back into the cylinder with a screwdriver taped up in electric tape to protect the barrel, and then theoretically wanted to smush the loaded bullet deep enough into the casing so that the squib would ride right in behind it, freeing up the cylinder, but it would not budge. MF'er is jammed in there good. I was hiding behind a quarter inch slab of metal plate with layers of welding equipment on and a face shield.

I think the gun is gone. I am sick to my ******n stomach. About the only thing that would work at this point is removing the barrel I think, but will gunsmiths touch a loaded weapon?

edit: I did remove the hammer and the firing pin before trying any of this, in case you were wondering. Also the bullet is a soft point, hollow point Speer 158 grain .357.

Last edited by 460harry; 02-09-2021 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 02-09-2021, 09:39 PM
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PICTURES! We need to see what is going on with your gun--it might not be ruined.
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Old 02-09-2021, 09:56 PM
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You could try cutting through the squib using a jeweler's saw blade. They are very thin. If you don't want to order a whole set, perhaps a local shop would sell you two or three. (See post #4)



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Old 02-09-2021, 10:24 PM
460harry 460harry is offline
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Quote:
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PICTURES! We need to see what is going on with your gun--it might not be ruined.
Here you can see the copper shining back at the camera from the gap between the forcing cone and the cylinder. I won't show the bullet in the barrel so as to not indirectly encourage anyone to look into loaded gun barrels generally, needless to say. This 4" lag screw shows you about where the bullet is.

I hope there are smiths out there who will work on loaded guns.
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