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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 08-16-2021, 11:20 AM
pacecars pacecars is offline
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Default 625-3 for Rowland conversion

I have regretted selling my Model 25 that was converted to shoot .460 Rowland along with .45 ACP and .45 Colt so I thought it might be time to get a replacement. Since 5” barrels are my favorite and I hate the lock I thought the -3 might be the perfect candidate to send to Clark’s for rechambering. Since it will still be able to shoot the ACP and Auto-rim rounds is there really any downside?
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Old 08-18-2021, 11:12 PM
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Old 10-02-2021, 07:44 AM
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Wow, 6 weeks and no reply?

I know nothing about the 460 Rowland. Does it offer significant advantage over the 45 Super? Your revolver can handle the Super with no alteration except maybe sight adjustment.

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Old 10-02-2021, 08:04 AM
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Why stop 1/2 way? Just rent a 45 Winchester mag reamer and get more case capacity. If you are going to go over the cylinders rated chamber pressure why stop with just 1/16 extra case length. Guys have fired 45 Winchesters in them. I use use 45 Winchester brass in my 45 colt cylinders that have been cut for moon clips, but not at full power. A 45 colt cylinder cut for moon clips can fire 45 colt, 45acp, 45 Rowland and 45 win mags.
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Old 10-03-2021, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by pacecars View Post
...my Model 25 that was converted to shoot .460 Rowland along with .45 ACP and .45 Colt...
Was this in a 45ACP M25 or a 45 Colt M25?

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Old 10-03-2021, 05:17 AM
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Default 45 Super -vs- 460 Roland -vs- 45WSM

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Originally Posted by StrawHat View Post
I know nothing about the 460 Rowland.
Does it offer significant advantage over the 45 Super?
The 460 Rowland has a slightly longer case (.062") than the 45ACP & 45 Super (so it won't chamber the a 45ACP) but their max loaded COALs are all held to the same length (1.275").

The 45ACP (+P) has a SAAMI max of 23K PSI.

Both the 45 Super & 460 Roland are wildcat cartridges & have no formal SAAMI specs.

The 45 Super is generally considered a 25K-28K PSI cartridge.

The 460 Roland is generally stated to be a 40K CUP cartridge.

The cylinder notch depths on my 45ACP M325s & 625 leave between .026"-.030" of metal to contain the chamber pressures at this minimum thickness point.

The cylinder notch on my 45 Colt M25-13 is .026" thick also.

My M29s & M629s have metal .039" thick in this same spot to contain the 44 Magnum's 36K PSI / 40K CUP SAAMI spec pressures.

Each to his own but I'm not shooting 460 Roland in my S&W 45ACP revolvers with that much of a pressure difference & that little metal.

S&W 45ACP cylinders are not long enough to handle 45 Colt rounds loaded to their 1.600" max COAL".

The OP's pictured M625 in post #2 looks to be 45ACP model?

Assuming the OP is asking about use in a 45ACP revolver (which has a [0.13"] shorter cylinder than a 45 Colt model) a 45 Winchester Magnum (1.575" max COAL) will barely fit in it but it's SAAMI max pressure is 41.5K PSI / 40K CUP, basically the same as the 460 Roland.

If you have a 45ACP revolver & you want more case capacity than the 45ACP offers but accept the 45 Super's higher pressure as your maximum then maybe the 45WSM is what you want, if you handload.

Its a 45 Winchester Magnum case cut down to the 45 S&W Schofield's case length of 1.100" (1.475" COAL) but loaded to 45 Super pressures.

Read more about it in my thread in the Gunsmithing forum here : 45WSM

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Old 10-03-2021, 10:54 AM
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As I said why stop at the Roland if your want to run over pressure. A 44 mag runs at 36,000psi. There is a reason they dis not make a 45 magnum N frame,

I run my 45 colts over the old 14,000 psi but above 25,000psi is getting into the just when will it blow up range. IMHO

45acp, super, Roland Winchester or colt

Plus, big heavy bullets do NOT need speed to be deadly

Last edited by steelslaver; 10-03-2021 at 10:57 AM.
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Old 10-03-2021, 11:23 AM
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Just something to consider - Sierra lists many .45 ACP "revolver" loads (not suitable for semi-autos) with bullet weights up to 240 grains (I think). These loads may not be .460 Rowland level, but they're loaded much hotter than regular .45 ACP loads.

Less wear and tear on a gun than Supers and Rowlands, no gun modifications, yet still quite impressive ballistics.
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Old 10-16-2021, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUEDOT37 View Post
Was this in a 45ACP M25 or a 45 Colt M25?

.

A .45 ACP cylinder is too short for the .45 Colt and is already designed for moon clips. TK Custom and Clark will cut the .45 Long Colt chambered cylinder to use moon clips
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Old 10-16-2021, 01:06 AM
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Just because S&W doesn’t chamber a revolver for a certain cartridge has a lot more to do with money. The Rowland is a niche cartridge and probably not very profitable for the expense to S&W. That is why we have custom gunsmiths and gun makers. They do the dirty work and experimenting. No one is advocating putting the .45 Win Mag in a Model 625
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Old 10-16-2021, 01:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUEDOT37 View Post
The 460 Rowland has a slightly longer case (.062") than the 45ACP & 45 Super (so it won't chamber the a 45ACP) but their max loaded COALs are all held to the same length (1.275").

The 45ACP (+P) has a SAAMI max of 23K PSI.

Both the 45 Super & 460 Roland are wildcat cartridges & have no formal SAAMI specs.

The 45 Super is generally considered a 25K-28K PSI cartridge.

The 460 Roland is generally stated to be a 40K CUP cartridge.

The cylinder notch depths on my 45ACP M325s & 625 leave between .026"-.030" of metal to contain the chamber pressures at this minimum thickness point.

The cylinder notch on my 45 Colt M25-13 is .026" thick also.

My M29s & M629s have metal .039" thick in this same spot to contain the 44 Magnum's 36K PSI / 40K CUP SAAMI spec pressures.

Each to his own but I'm not shooting 460 Roland in my S&W 45ACP revolvers with that much of a pressure difference & that little metal.

S&W 45ACP cylinders are not long enough to handle 45 Colt rounds loaded to their 1.600" max COAL".

The OP's pictured M625 in post #2 looks to be 45ACP model?

Assuming the OP is asking about use in a 45ACP revolver (which has a [0.13"] shorter cylinder than a 45 Colt model) a 45 Winchester Magnum (1.575" max COAL) will barely fit in it but it's SAAMI max pressure is 41.5K PSI / 40K CUP, basically the same as the 460 Roland.

If you have a 45ACP revolver & you want more case capacity than the 45ACP offers but accept the 45 Super's higher pressure as your maximum then maybe the 45WSM is what you want, if you handload.

Its a 45 Winchester Magnum case cut down to the 45 S&W Schofield's case length of 1.100" (1.475" COAL) but loaded to 45 Super pressures.

Read more about in my thread on this forum: 45WSM

.



.
Maybe I wasn’t clear about the 625 rechambering. The 625 will be reamed to handle the .460 Rowland along with the original .45 ACP and .45 Auto Rim. The Model 25 I sold was a .45 Long Colt and was cut for moon clips and could shoot the .45 Colt, .460 Rowland, .45 ACP and .45 Auto Rim. No where did I mention the .45 Winchester Magnum or trying to chamber a 625 in .45 ACP for .45 Long Colt. I am only talking about the 625-4 .45 ACP being converted to shoot the Rowland as has been done to lots of guns by several reputable custom gunsmiths that have access to testing equipment and the knowledge and experience to know what they are doing
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Old 10-16-2021, 05:32 PM
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There is a reason besides money that N frames are not made for a 40,000psi round in 45 caliber.

Like I said a 44 mag runs at 36,000, it has more cylinder wall thickness than any of the 45s (They all have the same case OD)

The length of the case has nothing to do with now much pressure a round or cylinder will handle. Yes most of the higher pressure rounds are a bit longer. THAT is to keep nimrods from firing them in guns that will not handle it. The could have made 36,000psi 357s and 44 mags the same length as 38 spec and 44 special. They did not because many of the guns chambered for those would not handle it.

Like I said. I have about 10 N frames in 45acp and 45 colt and a couple of those have colt cylinders have been recessed to fire both 45acp and colt, they would chamber a Roland sure, they also chamber a 45 Winchester. But, I am not sticking no 40,000psi round in any of them. I do use 45 Winchester brass in my 45 colts recessed for ACP, BUT only at about 25,000psi. NOT at 40,000psi.

But, here is another point a 250 gr slug moving at 1100fps will go through a horse and out the other side. Why pray tell, do I need more power? If my 45 colt is zeroed at 50 yds and the drop at 100yds is about 8"

Now a 44 mag zeroed at 50 yds and the drop at a 100yds is about 5"

3 inches of drop. whoopppee do. If I can't do a bit more hold over, I should not be shooting stuff at that range.

Anything I shoot with either with the same bullet placement will be just as dead as the other.

Shooting big fat bullets at 150 yard,s another 300 or 400fps will get about 8 more inches. 16" vs 24" Once again knowing your gun and hold over. Or you can do the old bars on the front sight deal. Past that it doesn't matter as your really lobbing them in with any hand gun, except for things like my XP100s in 6mm Remington and 221 Fireball and those are really just short rifles.

You want an N frame 460 Roland you could ream a 45 acp a bit deeper in less than an hour with hand tools and a 460 Roland reamer. 4D Reamer Rentals will rent you one for $42. Make sure you have good medical insurance.

Last edited by steelslaver; 10-16-2021 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 10-19-2021, 02:18 AM
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Quote:
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Maybe I wasn’t clear about the 625 rechambering. The 625 will be reamed to handle the .460 Rowland along with the original .45 ACP and .45 Auto Rim. The Model 25 I sold was a .45 Long Colt and was cut for moon clips and could shoot the .45 Colt, .460 Rowland, .45 ACP and .45 Auto Rim. No where did I mention the .45 Winchester Magnum or trying to chamber a 625 in .45 ACP for .45 Long Colt. I am only talking about the 625-4 .45 ACP being converted to shoot the Rowland as has been done to lots of guns by several reputable custom gunsmiths that have access to testing equipment and the knowledge and experience to know what they are doing
Well thanks for getting back to us (2 months).

I'm pretty sure none of those reputable custom gunsmiths, nor S&W, will be stepping up to pay your medical bills if that M25 cylinder gives up the ghost while shooting 40K CUP loads in it.

460 Roland & 45 Winchester Magnum's have essentially the same max pressure.

PS: My reply that you quoted was to StrawHat's question, not yours.

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