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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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  #1  
Old 01-06-2022, 11:51 PM
procurement92 procurement92 is offline
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Default MODEL 25 QUESTION

Hi All,




I am looking at getting a model 25 so I can shoot .45 colt


I was wondering is there any dash series that was better or worse?
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Old 01-07-2022, 12:04 AM
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25-3 and 25-4 have short cylinders, so if you want to use standard factory 45 Colt, you don't want these.

I have a 25-5, and it's a great shooter.

The 625 series are good shooters also.
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Old 01-07-2022, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoot View Post
25-3 and 25-4 have short cylinders, so if you want to use standard factory 45 Colt, you don't want these.

I have a 25-5, and it's a great shooter.


The 625 series are good shooters also.
The M25-5 sometimes have issues with oversized throats on the cylinder, which can affect accuracy, and sometimes needs a careful bullet selection for it to shoot well.

I just purchased a 4" M25-5 that has oversized throats. I took it to the range for the first time and shot 20 rounds of factory Hornady FTX loads and they did very well, so I'm hopeful my gun will be a good shooter. I shot a standard IDPA target and put 10 rounds all in the chest circle at 15 yards, and kept 10 in the chest area at 25 yards. Once I find a source of brass and some lead bullets in the 210-240 grain range, I'll play with some hand loads, which is what I shoot exclusively in my other revolvers.
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Old 01-07-2022, 01:25 AM
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The 25-7 was the best of the pre lock 45s

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Old 01-07-2022, 01:28 AM
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I shot my 25-7, 5 inch today! It is a great gun!! Perfect action, correct cylinder throats. I like the slick finish too. Great fun! There is a 25-9 in 5 inch too, but I have never seen one.
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Old 01-07-2022, 06:39 AM
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While I am not a 45 long Colt aficionado, I do like the Model 25 revolver. I believe the oversized throat condition was cured at the same time the pin in the barrel was discontinued, so you are looking for a non-pinned, non-recessed model.

Having said that, if you handload, .454 diameter bullets from my Model 25-5 are wonderfully accurate.

Kevin
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Old 01-07-2022, 09:09 AM
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When you get bullets sized for the throats of your gun the 25's
pretty much all shoot very well.

In my case I got lucky with the first one I bought at a pawn shop.
It was a 25-7 that shoots much better than I can. I found another
one at a later date. It also makes me look like I know what I'm
doing.
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Old 01-07-2022, 09:34 AM
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One more vote for a Model 25-7. They are just amazing to shoot.
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Old 01-07-2022, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serger View Post
When you get bullets sized for the throats of your gun the 25's
pretty much all shoot very well.

In my case I got lucky with the first one I bought at a pawn shop.
It was a 25-7 that shoots much better than I can. I found another
one at a later date. It also makes me look like I know what I'm
doing.
Fantastic! I don't remember ever seeing 1 in in person! There is just something about the looks that really appeals to me. Probably the unfluted cylinder.
I have a 25-15 in Colt, a Blackhawk, 45 convertible, and a 625 JM in45 ACP.
Enjoy your 25's ! Bob
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Old 01-07-2022, 09:51 AM
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I recently scored a 25-9, but haven't shot it yet. The weather has been crazy in my AO, plus I need to belly up to the bench and load some ammo!

WYT-P
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Old 01-09-2022, 02:54 AM
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My M25-13 is an awesome shooting 45 Colt with it's .4518" throats.

.



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Old 01-09-2022, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 29aholic View Post
The 25-7 was the best of the pre lock 45s

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Almost. The 25-9 is the same gun as the -7, but has the endurance package. They made about 2000 of the -7 and -9, but the -9 was at the end of the run and are MUCH rarer. Both share the same product code.

The 625-6 is the 45 Colt version of the Mountain Gun, which has all the upgrades, but no lock, MIM hammer or trigger.
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Old 01-09-2022, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUEDOT37 View Post
My M25-13 is an awesome shooting 45 Colt with it's .4518" throats.

.






.
.



.
Those wood stocks on your 25-13 are beautiful. Tell me about them.
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Old 01-09-2022, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CH4 View Post
Almost. The 25-9 is the same gun as the -7, but has the endurance package. They made about 2000 of the -7 and -9, but the -9 was at the end of the run and are MUCH rarer. Both share the same product code.
This is spot on...the 25-9 seems like a contender for the best of the engineering changes. I have a 25-9 in both 4" and 6", the fluted variety. They are both fine examples of S&W revolvers. I also have a Mountain Gun which gets carried even more than the other two.

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Old 01-09-2022, 05:37 PM
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I have a 25-9. Can someone elaborate on the “endurance package” as mentioned above by CH4 ? Thanks.
Forgot to mention when I bought it around 25 or so years ago it came with these beautiful Bear Hug grips.
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Old 01-09-2022, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
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I have a 25-9. Cam someone elaborate on the “endurance package” as mentioned above by CH4 ? Thanks.
It has the longer stop-notches in the cylinder, not the full-blown endurance package as started in the Model 29-3E.

Quote:
Among the endurance upgrades were a deeper cut bolt notch on the cylinder, new style cylinder bolt, and a radius(flare) was put at the bottom of the internal pins so the were bigger/thicker where they attached to the frame, instead of being the same skinny size throughout its length.
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Old 01-13-2022, 12:42 PM
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How did I miss this thread earlier?

I'm a huge fan of S&Ws in .45 Colt.
As mentioned, the cylinder throat problem disappeared about the same time as the barrel pin was discontinued. Generally, non pinned barrels have correct throats. But with all things S&W, don't expect that to be written in stone.

I also agree that the 25-7 is without a doubt the finest .45 Colt revolvers S&W ever made. Mine ain't going nowhere!

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Old 01-13-2022, 08:10 PM
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I have so many N frames in 45 ACP, I didn't need another gun. So I picked up a Mod 25 ACP cylinder and yoke assembly. I was amazed that it just dropped into my Pre Model 26. And of course I didn't have to alter the frame window lug in the lower right corner of the window because the cyls are the exact same length.

Then I extended the shoulders in the chambers, but not far enough for the 45 Colt cartridges to seat on the rim. I let them stick out .030", the difference between 45 ACP headspace and the normal 45 Colt headspace.

No less safe than shooting 45 ACP since its case head sticks out of the chamber the exact same amount.

Plus it added back the .030" to make the chamber length the same as the S&W short 45 Colt cylinders that handle standard 45 Colt bullets. I never had any trouble finding off the shelf 45 ammo that would fit the cylinder, (when you could buy ammo!) The reamer I used put a nice rounded shoulder (like S&W 45 Colt cyls) for my rd crimped 45 Colt cases.

But mostly I handload, especially for the extra long nose 45 bullets, like the 250 gr Keith bullets. I just deep seat them enough to be flush with the front face of the cyl. I don't 'hotrod' my loads that much and with the right powders, never had a problem with compressed loads. In fact the fuller the load, the better volumetric burning efficiency I get and therefore more consistent groups on target.

I found myself not even changing back to the original ACP cyl to shoot ACP rounds, (just use 1/2 moon and full moon clips, or 45 AR cases.
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  #19  
Old 01-13-2022, 08:52 PM
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Hondo, another thing a guy could do is get a 45acp cylinder, lengthen the chambers then fit a 45 colt extractor to the cylinder. With a stainless gun and the new style extractor star it would be easy

I have ended up having a bunch of 45 colts and only 4 revolvers that fire acps, 2 of those use 45 colt cylinders recessed for clipped acps
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Old 01-13-2022, 09:35 PM
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My 25-5 (pinned) 4" shoots 250 gr RNFPs sized .452 just fine. I use the same load in a 5.5 inch Ruger Vaquero and a Winchester 94.
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Old 01-13-2022, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 29aholic View Post
The 25-7 was the best of the pre lock 45s

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An example.
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Old 01-13-2022, 09:56 PM
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I have both a Model 25-2 with both cylinders and a Model 25-3 in 45 Colt. I think you would have to reload some really long rounds to have a round that was too long. It's another exaggerated story similar to the internet myth that Model 25-5's have larger throats and are therefore inaccurate.

Whoever tells you either of these things never owned one and doesn't know what they are talking about.
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Old 01-13-2022, 10:20 PM
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Don’t rule out the 25-13 Mountain Gun. They are gorgeous, have correct throats, and demonstrate laser accuracy. They also balance very nicely in the hand.
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Old 01-13-2022, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrawHat View Post
While I am not a 45 long Colt aficionado, I do like the Model 25 revolver. I believe the oversized throat condition was cured at the same time the pin in the barrel was discontinued, so you are looking for a non-pinned, non-recessed model

Kevin
Only 1982 and earlier magnum calibers, and .22 rimfire have recessed cylinders. .45Auto and .45 Colt don't have them in any series.

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I have both a Model 25-2 with both cylinders and a Model 25-3 in 45 Colt. I think you would have to reload some really long rounds to have a round that was too long. It's another exaggerated story similar to the internet myth that Model 25-5's have larger throats and are therefore inaccurate.
Is it the fact that some .45 Colts had oversized throats, or that they are inaccurate guns, that is internet myth? The throat should be .450-.451 at most. Mine is .453, and a .45Colt bullet (.452) will drop straight through it. However, from my first range results, it doesn't appear to affect the accuracy at all.
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Old 01-13-2022, 11:24 PM
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The SAAMI Spec for 45 Colt used to be .454" and that is what the 25-2, 25-3 and 25-5 were made to accept. They are fantastic and extremely accurate if you know this. The current SAAMI spec is not what was used then.

Load the right thing - it pays to be knowledgeable.


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Originally Posted by Hair Trigger View Post
Only 1982 and earlier magnum calibers, and .22 rimfire have recessed cylinders. .45Auto and .45 Colt don't have them in any series.


Is it the fact that some .45 Colts had oversized throats, or that they are inaccurate guns, that is internet myth? The throat should be .450-.451 at most. Mine is .453, and a .45Colt bullet (.452) will drop straight through it. However, from my first range results, it doesn't appear to affect the accuracy at all.
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Old 01-14-2022, 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Thunderbolt84 View Post
Those wood stocks on your 25-13 are beautiful. Tell me about them.
Thanks.

Those are the factory grips that it came with.

I found out that they were Ahrends Cocobolo S&W Tactical Grips, Square Butt Finger Groove model grips.
http://ahrendsgripsusa.com/images/re...%20Pix%206.jpg

Looks like Ahrends went out of business in 2020 & Cocobola wood is on the restricted list as an endangered species.

.



.
.
.

My M329PD came with similar style grips but they weren't pretty.
.


.
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Old 01-14-2022, 04:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Model19man View Post
The SAAMI Spec for 45 Colt used to be .454" and that is what the 25-2, 25-3 and 25-5 were made to accept.
They are fantastic and extremely accurate if you know this.
The current SAAMI spec is not what was used then.
I don't know when, or if, 45 Colt specs changed but the current SAAMI specs are:

.4520" + .0075" (.4520" to .4595") for their cylinder throats,

.450" to .454" for the groove diameter, &

.4560" - .0060" (.4500" to .4560") for bullet diameter.

Likely a carryover from way back when that finally got changed to match the tighter diameters that the 45ACP revolvers always carried.

And don't forget that S&W had similarly loose specs for their 44 Magnums throats at .432" & later standardized them to .429" too.

.
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Old 01-14-2022, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Model19man View Post
I have both a Model 25-2 with both cylinders and a Model 25-3 in 45 Colt. I think you would have to reload some really long rounds to have a round that was too long. It's another exaggerated story similar to the internet myth that Model 25-5's have larger throats and are therefore inaccurate.

Whoever tells you either of these things never owned one and doesn't know what they are talking about.
I have had a bunch of 45 colts and still do. I do know what I am talking about

I had a 25-3 and a 25-2 that had a 357 cylinder reamed to 45 colt. Neither could use my Keith 255 gr bullets when seated so the crimp was in crimp groove. The 25-3 is gone. The 25-2 now has a 44 mag cylinder reamed to 45 colt. I also had a pinned 25-5 that had .456 throats. (I have a set of pin gauges). I replaced it with a 44 mag cylinder I reamed out. When I make up my own cylinders a .453 gauge will not go in throats. Accuracy improved considerably.

Neither are myths. How much effect either has is not as great as some believe. With those long bullets, for awhile I just crimped in front of top band. Never found a factory load that did not fit, but did not use many either. The big throat deal and accuracy is very bullet dependent.

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Old 01-14-2022, 09:13 AM
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You’re all wrong . The 625-5 Classic rules the roost in .45 Colt . ��
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Old 01-14-2022, 03:35 PM
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No this 5" Pinned and recessed 25-5 is boss.

this converted to 45 colt 4"629 with cylinder recessed to fire 45acp in full moons is runner up and its 5" buddy that only fires 45 colt is third

Then there is the converted to 45 colt by reaming with partial recess 455 Triplelock

How about a 4 1/4" made from a Brazilian, achopped 1950 barrel and a reamed 44 mag cylinder?

I just finished making this cut to 3 1/2" 1950 barrel mounted on a cut down 1917 with a cut down grip frame and adj sights into a 45 colt using a reamed 44 mag cylinder.

The one on the left is a 1955 with a 6 1/2" barrel sporting a reamed to 45 colt 44n mag cylinder


Ya I like 45 colts

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  #31  
Old 01-14-2022, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Grayfox View Post
I also agree that the 25-7 is without a doubt the finest .45 Colt revolvers S&W ever made. Mine ain't going nowhere!
I'll throw some doubt for you...the 25-9 is an improved 25-7....it has the larger stop notches and different bolt. But 25-9s came in the 5" unfluted variety AND the fluted versions!


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Old 01-14-2022, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by StrawHat View Post
While I am not a 45 long Colt aficionado, I do like the Model 25 revolver. I believe the oversized throat condition was cured at the same time the pin in the barrel was discontinued, so you are looking for a non-pinned, non-recessed model.

Having said that, if you handload, .454 diameter bullets from my Model 25-5 are wonderfully accurate.

Kevin
Eons ago bought a Colt SAA in .45 Colt. I like the round so much as the years went by I added a Blackhawk, Redhawk and Vaquero to the collection. My last purchase was a 25-5.

I was a little disappointed with the Smith's accuracy. Then I learned about the over sized throats. I bought a small box of store bought 250 gr. 0.454's and it made the gun a tack driver.

The interesting thing was that those boolits even performed better in my other 4 revolvers as well.

Lastly, I bought a new mold and .454 sizer and that's my standard for ALL my Colts.

If I were to buy another model 25, I think I would actually WANT an early 25-5. There is just something about a pinned barrel, and IMHO the finish on the newer models simply does not compare.

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Old 01-14-2022, 10:39 PM
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Boy, I wish I lived in Central Montana!

Kevin
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Old 01-17-2022, 11:41 AM
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The recipe in my Lyman manual for the 250 grain lead bullets that I use calls for 1.570" OAL. There are no crimp grooves exposed if you follow the recipe. The bullet sits in my 25-2 or 25-3 (shown) cylinder with .125" to spare. These are .454" OD powder coated bullets that arrived last week. I am using a below maximum load of Unique powder over a W-W primer in fresh Starline brass. If you are making the round that long it's not going to fit, but my guess is that you have exceeded the specified OAL for the cartridge which is not desirable IMHO. It pays to look at a reloading manual and follow the directions.

I've been reloading 45 Colt for my 25-2 revolver since I bought it in the early 1980's. I have always followed the recipes in reloading manuals and have yet to experience anything like you are saying. It will tear the center out of a paper target if I do my job.


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Originally Posted by steelslaver View Post
I have had a bunch of 45 colts and still do. I do know what I am talking about

I had a 25-3 and a 25-2 that had a 357 cylinder reamed to 45 colt. Neither could use my Keith 255 gr bullets when seated so the crimp was in crimp groove. The 25-3 is gone. The 25-2 now has a 44 mag cylinder reamed to 45 colt. I also had a pinned 25-5 that had .456 throats. (I have a set of pin gauges). I replaced it with a 44 mag cylinder I reamed out. When I make up my own cylinders a .453 gauge will not go in throats. Accuracy improved considerably.

Neither are myths. How much effect either has is not as great as some believe. With those long bullets, for awhile I just crimped in front of top band. Never found a factory load that did not fit, but did not use many either. The big throat deal and accuracy is very bullet dependent.
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File Type: jpg 45 colt b.jpg (111.1 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg 45 colt c.jpg (86.0 KB, 15 views)

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  #35  
Old 01-17-2022, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 29aholic View Post
The 25-7 was the best of the pre lock 45s

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk
I don't know, I'm pretty fond of the M25-9..



Enjoy
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Old 01-17-2022, 04:44 PM
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Some nice guns pictured. Love those 45 colts.
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Old 01-17-2022, 05:55 PM
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I have 25-2s, 25-3 and 25-5s. The 25-5s shoot outstanding. I do use cast bullets and shoot either a factory dupe with 250gr RnFp or mostly target loads 237gr BNWC at 750fps. The 25-3 is NIB and I’m not shooting it.
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  #38  
Old Yesterday, 02:17 PM
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Boy, I wish I lived in Central Montana!

Kevin
I see what you did there. Ditto that.
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  #39  
Old Today, 03:42 AM
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Default Bolt block mechanism in Endurance Package

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Originally Posted by Baxter6551 View Post
I have a 25-9. Can someone elaborate on the “endurance package” as mentioned above by CH4 ?
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Originally Posted by DR505 View Post
It has the longer stop-notches in the cylinder, not the full-blown endurance package as started in the Model 29-3E.
Two of the four Endurance Package features that I felt complimented each other are the longer cylinder stop notches & the cylinder bolt block mechanism.

While virtually all of the modern N-frame revolvers have the longer stop notches now they do not all have the bolt block feature too.

My 45 Colt M25-13 does not have the bolt block.

Standard 45 Colt loads do not warrant this feature be add.

Here's a view of the bolt block mechanism in my 329PD.

When the bolt block hand (lower arrow) is moved up by the trigger, to the engaged position during firing, it prevents the cylinder bolt (upper arrow) from moving forward & unlocking the cylinder during heavy recoil.

.

Bolt block not engaged
.


.
.

Bolt block engaged
.


.
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Old Today, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by BLUEDOT37 View Post
Two of the four Endurance Package features that I felt complimented each other are the longer cylinder stop notches & the cylinder bolt block mechanism.

While virtually all of the modern N-frame revolvers have the longer stop notches now they do not all have the bolt block feature too…

Here's a view of the bolt block mechanism in my 329PD.

When the bolt block hand (lower arrow) is moved up by the trigger, to the engaged position during firing, it prevents the cylinder bolt (upper arrow) from moving forward & unlocking the cylinder during heavy recoil.

.

Bolt block not engaged


Bolt block engaged
.

.

Thank you for that explanation.

Kevin
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  #41  
Old Today, 09:21 AM
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I have fired a lot of 255 gr slugs with 18.5 gr of 2400 and years ago when I had maximumidus, used to use 20 gr with the bullet crimped in front of the first band so it fit in a 25-3. Never had the cylinder come unlocked either to rotate or come open.

If you need the endurance package on a S&W 45 Colt you are pressing your gun and luck way to hard.

NOT saying the improvements are a bad thing. Just saying if your shooting loads in a 44 mag or 45 colt that they are actually needed to have the gun function correctly your might end up with issues other than the cylinder opening or rotating under recoil.

Last edited by steelslaver; Today at 09:28 AM.
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Old Today, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsmJim View Post
If I were to buy another model 25, I think I would actually WANT an early 25-5. There is just something about a pinned barrel, and IMHO the finish on the newer models simply does not compare.
They don't get much prettier than this. Mine is a mid-series M25-5, 1980 vintage.
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Old Today, 10:43 AM
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They don't get much prettier than this. Mine is a mid-series M25-5, 1980 vintage.
That’s a fact, Jack! Beautiful!
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