My grail gun was a 3" 686+ which I found a couple of weeks ago and purchased. When dry firing, the action is fine, and so were the first couple of cylinders shot out of it. After that, the trigger got progressively harder to shoot. By the time I finished a box of fifty rounds, I was practically crushing the gun to shoot a complete cylinder. Dry firing was still easy. Any ideas of what would cause this? I haven't had time to take it back to the LGS which has a S & W armorer to look at it. Could it be grit in the action, or the strain screw coming loose, or tightening? I also can't think of a reason an empty cylinder would be fine, but loaded would have an effect on the trigger????
I'm not a new gun owner and have several Smith revolvers both new and older.

Does it still function fine dry firing? Check to see if the cylinder is hard to rotate when the gun is open. I had one with the same type of symptoms, where powder and crud built up around the ejector rod causing the cylinder to rotate hard. If the cylinder is hard to rotate, it just follows the hand back into the frame and trigger, etc. The 'ol leg bone is connected to the knee bone thing..

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Todd

First thing I would do is clean under the extractor star with a toothbrush and solvent. I've had a piece of grit get stuck before under there and it causes hard rotation. If you are comfortable with removing the cylinder, go ahead and clean it and lube it too. If not you might be good with just a quick cleaning under the star.

Reloaded ammo or factory?

If you dry fire with 6 empty cases in the cylinder that have already been fired in the gun does it function without issue?

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

I had a new 66-8 that was doing the same thing. On the second trip back, S&W replaced the gun.

StakeOut might be onto something. If the ammo has high primers, overly thick rims, or possibly a bullet not fully seated and pushing into the forcing cone can create drag between the base of the cartridge and the recoil shield / breach face. Can happen with factory ammo, though most likely with reloads. Were there "swipe" marks on the fired primers?

That it got worse as you kept shooting is also an indicator of increasing fouling build up, though it shouldn't get that dirty with one box of shells thru it.

Then of course it could be mechanical, like tight headspace, or an oversized firing pin hole allowing a primer to flow.

If it were mine, I would give the gun a good scrubbing, lube, and inspection / dry fire test both DA and SA. I would then take it to the range with a different brand of factory ammo, and try it again, both SA and DA Try to note if shells seem to be dragging on the recoil shield, take a good look at your primers. Go from there.

Larry

I will check all those things. I did keep the cases, so I can look at those as well. Because of the difficulty, I only shot 50 rounds. I always check primer strikes on new guns, and the ones I did looked fine. I will update when I can check all.
By the way it was a new gun if I did not mention it.
Thanks!

Not a S&W but a Manurhin Inox88, gave me exactly that problem. I was using my own lead cast bullet lubed with Lee Liquid alox. I changed to a copper wash bullet and the problem was gone. The thing is, I suspected that it was a build up of crud, somewhere, but the gun appeared clean.

In the future, when it gets hard to pull the trigger, stop shooting. Excessive force is likely to damage something.

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protocalldesign.com

When it gets hard to pull the trigger unload the gun and with the cylinder open examine the face of the cylinder liking for scratches or rub marks in the carbon where the forcing cone could be rubbing against it. I have had this issue on more than one S&W with a tight barrel/cylinder gap. I solve the issue by opening the gap by .002” and the problem goes away.

Too tight of a barrel-cylinder gap can cause increased binding the more the revolver is fired. Not just from the build up of fouling, but also as the revolver gets hotter, the metal expands, closing the gap even more. The same goes for insufficient headspacing, as the cylinder gets hot and expands, it is possible that the case heads will be pushed against and drag on the breech face.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

That's interesting. Lots of well thought out reasons posted above. Keep us posted on the solution.

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Keep your powder dry.

While this is a great long(er) term fix (at least til it gets dirty again), when it happens just take a rag and push the extractor out and wipe any crud on the underside and the cylinder as well. See if this fixes or alleviates the problem at that time/moment.

As mentioned elsewhere, dirty ammo can cause this issue, and a simple wipe "may" fix it at the time.

This has happened an unknown number of times in the past when shooting "suspect" ammo (likely my reloads) - dirt/unburnt powder happens - and clearing it with a rag at the moment will allow one to continue shooting, saving the ultimate clean for later when done.

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.............SmithNut

Often the cause of this is too much endshake, allowing the cylinder to move forward on the crane. Fixing the endshake (if any) will move the cylinder back and create more gap. Check for endshake before cutting the barrel.

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protocalldesign.com

If it is crud under the extractor star, (I have had this problem), be sure to only eject your spent rounds with the barrel pointed straight up. If it is angled to the side that's what lets crud get under the star.

Did you also check the ejector rod for correct tightening?

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Sorry I did not get back sooner. I had a tree fall on my house in February and the roof repairs were finally getting done last week.
Meanwhile I checked all the things mentioned.
No end shake
All the primers looked normal on the spent shells
Since I only put 50 rounds through the new gun, there was no crud or fouling under the extractor star
Cylinder spins normally
Dry firing without shells is fine in both single and double action
I did find seven cases that duplicate the issue when dry fired in double action. I put them with the gun
I took the gun back to the lgs where I bought it to have the gunsmith take a look. He is a Smith armorer. Unfortunately he just returned to work after breaking his leg and has a backlog of work so it might be a while before he takes a look at it.
I will post again when I hear back. Thanks again for the suggestions and patience!

Unless LGS guy is a S&W armorer who has extensive experience with revolvers, I would ship it back to the mothership via warranty. The last thing you want is a guy who took an M&P course monkeying around with your 686.

That's the classic feel of said debris under the star....progressively harder to pull through the double-action.

Ditto. Bought a 686+ last year with a .003 barrel/cylinder gap. No problems so far with jacketed magnum ammo.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

He is or I would have done exactly that. He's worked on another 686 I own and does know what he's doing.

Unfortunately, I'm still waiting to hear back...

I should have noticed your screen name and figured you knew what you were doing…. best of luck for a timely and effective fix.

Did you personally measure the b/c gap with a good set of feelers? That stuff can build up pretty quick on the cylinder face and combined with a few unburnt granuals under the ejector star can cause what tou described. And, as ProtocallDesign pointed out smashing the trigger to cycle a revolver is never a good thing.

Brian686,
I am hoping you will post what your gunsmith finds.
I purchased a 3” 686+ in mid April and am having similar problems.
Today I shot seven cylinders full and this was my experience:
I load the cylinder and close it, thumb the hammer back slightly and rotate the cylinder by hand to make sure there are no high primers or hang-ups. All is good.
I start shooting, all shots double action. The first couple of shots are pretty smooth. Then as I continue to shoot, the cylinder rotates and locks into position, but the trigger starts getting grittier for the rest of the trigger pull. On the seventh shot the cylinder has rotated, locked into position, the hammer is back but it will not fall.
The gun is frozen up. I thumb the hammer back slightly and things free up and I control the hammer forward with my thumb until it is at rest.
I pull the hammer back slightly and spin the cylinder by hand. No hang-ups, No problems. I open the cylinder. No sign of any problems like high primers or a bullet that has jumped the crimp. I close the cylinder and fire that last round with no problem.
Like I said, I am hoping you post what your gunsmith finds. I am not aware of any S&W armorers in Montana. I will probably wind up sending it in for warranty repair.

Finally an update
I went to the LGS and gun still not examined. I took the gun back. I was patient as the gunsmith had returned to work after a long time off with a broken leg. I did something I should have done in the first place. Check it next to my 686 6 2.5”. They both felt the same. I took the side plate off and looked for any grit or anything that looked unusual and didn’t see anything out of the ordinary. So I shot the gun and it didn’t feel so bad this time. I’m concluding that maybe it was just me and there is nothing wrong. The gun is pretty accurate. If anything further occurs I will just deal directly with Smith and Wesson. Thanks again to all who made suggestions. Im going to try and include the photo I took of the internals I took today. Not getting the photo in.

All revolvers have a section of the recoil shield that snugs the cartridges up into the chamber. The rest of the shield is "rebated" and creates no drag on the revolving action. Generally when a revolver works perfectly empty but becomes difficult to impossible to hammer or trigger cock with ammo in place, the problem lies with the ammo.
If the primers were fine and not set back, the next place to look is the front end of each chamber where powder residue can lodge in the slight recess between the front of the case and the chamber's cut depth. Dirty ammo such as lead bullets and certain powders can produce significant fouling and buildup that limits the depth of subsequent case necks making the case head end stand proud and binding against the recoil shield.

Interesting... I did note that when I cleaned the gun after shooting the cylinder was pretty dirty for only fifty rounds through it. The box of ammo was an old box of lead round nose .357. I'll keep an eye on it. Thanks for the info. Learn something new...