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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 10-03-2022, 06:08 PM
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I watched or read some DA carry revolver comparison recently (can't find it now) in which someone referred to a bad DA trigger causing the gun to "prairie dog". I've searched online but only burrowing rodents come up.

My hunch is it means a heavy DA trigger break (and overtravel?) encourages the barrel to snap toward the ground, flinging shots low randomly. (This describes pretty well my dad's '90s 3" Taurus 85 in DA mode, unfortunately.)

Did I guess right?
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Old 10-03-2022, 06:17 PM
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You might want to check the Urban Dictionary.
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Old 10-03-2022, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by brians356 View Post
I watched or read some DA carry revolver comparison recently (can't find it now) in which someone referred to a bad DA trigger causing the gun to "prairie dog". I've searched online but only burrowing rodents come up.

My hunch is it means a heavy DA trigger break (and overtravel?) encourages the barrel to snap toward the ground, flinging shots low randomly. (This describes pretty well my dad's '90s 3" Taurus 85 in DA mode, unfortunatelyu.)

Did I guess right?
-
Just because someone uses a term doesn’t mean it means anything.

Until of course it catches on and we are all dumber for it.

For example several years ago I started hearing “bullets” or “ projectiles” being referred to as “tips” and “heads” mostly by new and uninformed shooters. After awhile I saw a web site selling handloading components with a disclaimer that the add and price were for the “heads” only, and was not loaded ammo.

Once that happens people see the term on the site and think it actually has meaning when in fact it was just an effort by the website to address ignorant shooters who didn’t understand the differences between “cartridges” or “ammunition”, and “bullets” or “projectiles” and then whined when a box of bullets showed up rather than loaded ammo.

In general I try to discourage non standard terms, especially when they are confusing or not accurately descriptive.
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Old 10-03-2022, 06:43 PM
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Found it. I'd thought I'd heard it in a Massad Ayoob video, but couldn't find it. Now I find this text online, Ayoob in his book Gun Digest Book of Concealed Carry:

"In a snubby, I prefer the [Speer 135-gr "NYPD" load] Gold Dot for two reasons. First, the lighter recoil is helpful in fast, accurate shooting. Second, the all-lead FBI load is more lightly crimped than the Gold Dot, and when fired in a super-light snubby in the ten or eleven ounce weight range, such as the Titanium or Scandium S&W AirLites, recoil is so severe that after a shot or two, the projectiles can start pulling loose from the case mouths. They 'prairie dog' up out of the chamber at the front of the cylinder and lock the gun up solid. While this can happen with any make of the all-lead +P FBI load, it does not occur with the Speer NYPD load."

So it wasn't about DA triggers at all.
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Old 10-03-2022, 06:48 PM
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You might want to check the Urban Dictionary.
Thanks anyway.
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Old 10-03-2022, 07:06 PM
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Just because someone uses a term doesn’t mean it means anything.

Until of course it catches on and we are all dumber for it.

For example several years ago I started hearing “bullets” or “ projectiles” being referred to as “tips” and “heads” mostly by new and uninformed shooters. After awhile I saw a web site selling handloading components with a disclaimer that the add and price were for the “heads” only, and was not loaded ammo.

Once that happens people see the term on the site and think it actually has meaning when in fact it was just an effort by the website to address ignorant shooters who didn’t understand the differences between “cartridges” or “ammunition”, and “bullets” or “projectiles” and then whined when a box of bullets showed up rather than loaded ammo.

In general I try to discourage non standard terms, especially when they are confusing or not accurately descriptive.
Your certainly right in discouraging the non standard, truly worthless terms, but all that is very ingrained among many today. They tend to seek out words that are confusing or not accurately descriptive because such words are new and fresh; it doesn't matter to them that these words are third-rate and will soon be replaced by something equally of little value.
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Old 10-03-2022, 07:25 PM
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I hereby declare my question self-answered, and this thread therefore moot. There's always The Lounge.
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Old 10-04-2022, 07:51 AM
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So does that mean that when I push the bullet back into the case from which it "prairie dogged" that it has now been "wack-a-moled"?
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Old 10-04-2022, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brians356 View Post
Found it. I'd thought I'd heard it in a Massad Ayoob video, but couldn't find it. Now I find this text online, Ayoob in his book Gun Digest Book of Concealed Carry:

"In a snubby, I prefer the [Speer 135-gr "NYPD" load] Gold Dot for two reasons. First, the lighter recoil is helpful in fast, accurate shooting. Second, the all-lead FBI load is more lightly crimped than the Gold Dot, and when fired in a super-light snubby in the ten or eleven ounce weight range, such as the Titanium or Scandium S&W AirLites, recoil is so severe that after a shot or two, the projectiles can start pulling loose from the case mouths. They 'prairie dog' up out of the chamber at the front of the cylinder and lock the gun up solid. While this can happen with any make of the all-lead +P FBI load, it does not occur with the Speer NYPD load."

So it wasn't about DA triggers at all.
-

I have absolutely no issue with Ayoob using “prairie dogging” as a descriptive term to illustrate what is happening and how it can jam a revolver when a bullet backs out of a case under recoil.

The problem occurs when a much less skilled writer, who’s read something like the passage above, decides that “prairie dogging” is now the official universally understood term for this phenomenon and presents it without any context at all.
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Old 10-04-2022, 12:44 PM
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I have absolutely no issue with Ayoob using “prairie dogging” ... The problem occurs when a much less skilled writer, who’s read something like the passage above, decides that “prairie dogging” is now the official universally understood term for this phenomenon and presents it without any context at all.
Fair enough. But I've yet to encounter that term used by anyone besides Ayoob. It's likely a very rare phenomenon, as described, affecting only 158-gr soft lead SWCs inside a < 12 oz snubby. Not too many folks running around with that combo today.
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Old 10-04-2022, 12:52 PM
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Fair enough. But I've yet to encounter that term used by anyone besides Ayoob. It's likely a very rare phenomenon, as described, affecting only 158-gr soft lead SWCs inside a < 12 oz snubby. Not too many folks running around with that combo today.
-
I have seen it happen with my brother's Taurus model 450 in 45 colt. It is the alloy frame and very light. It will pull standard crimped 45 colt loads from the recoil and can cause it to jam up. Same rounds never do it with a heavier gun. Now I have a name for it.

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Old 10-04-2022, 12:59 PM
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I have seen it happen with my brother's Taurus model 450 in 45 colt. It is the alloy frame and very light. It will pull standard crimped 45 colt loads from the recoil and can cause it to jam up. Same rounds never do it with a heavier gun. Now I have a name for it.

Rosewood

I always thought it was called “bullet creep” or “bullet jump.” But what do I know? I was raised around a bunch of WWII veterans who called magazines “clips” and I still do to this day. And have unintentionally taught my 18 year old the same.
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Old 10-04-2022, 01:06 PM
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I have seen it happen with my brother's Taurus model 450 in 45 colt. It is the alloy frame and very light.
That's the Model 450T, titanium, 5-shot 45 LC, 1999-2002. I wonder how many of those are out there. ;-)
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Old 10-04-2022, 01:56 PM
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now now that I know what the heck we’re talking about, I’ve been warned about and perhaps experienced mild cases of this phenomenon with poorly crimped 44 magnum reloads. I didn’t hear that term used for the event then and would be unlikely to use it now, but the phenomenon does certainly occur in the right (or should I say “wrong”?) circumstances.
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Old 10-04-2022, 02:06 PM
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That's the Model 450T, titanium, 5-shot 45 LC, 1999-2002. I wonder how many of those are out there. ;-)
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His isn't the titanium. Pretty sure it is alloy frame with steel cylinder.

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Old 10-04-2022, 02:07 PM
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I always thought it was called “bullet creep” or “bullet jump.”
Yes, I think I have heard it called bullet jump or pull.
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Old 10-04-2022, 02:13 PM
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"Crimp jump" or "jumping crimp" is how I've heard it termed but most folks that either are not big bore types or handloaders still need context to understand what's being said.

The Urban Dictionary result for "prairie dogging" is long standing and absolutely sends the correct message. It's sometimes alternately referred to as "touching cotton." These are necessary and effective established terms.
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Old 10-04-2022, 03:17 PM
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Fair enough. But I've yet to encounter that term used by anyone besides Ayoob. It's likely a very rare phenomenon, as described, affecting only 158-gr soft lead SWCs inside a < 12 oz snubby. Not too many folks running around with that combo today.
-
That’s exactly the point. It’s not a thing. Ayoob only used “prairie digging” to give the reader a visual for what was happening in that very specific context and case. He was not attempting to coin a term for it or suggest a term for it.
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Old 10-04-2022, 03:40 PM
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His isn't the titanium. Pretty sure it is alloy frame with steel cylinder.
"Titanium" is an alloy in nearly every product (other than orthopedic/dental) , commonly with small amounts of aluminum or vanadium. "Alloy frame" usually means aluminum.

Anyway, in the Blue Book I only find Models 450 (SS) and 450T (titanium). However, under 450 it does say "also available in Ultra-Lite variation" which indicates an aluminum frame. So that's likely what your brother has. Cool! (Still not many out there.)
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Old 10-04-2022, 03:42 PM
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Yes, I think I have heard it called bullet jump ...
Rifle handloaders would never call it that.
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Old 10-04-2022, 03:43 PM
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Prairie dogging should only refer to a condition that sometimes occurs on long road trips.
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Old 10-04-2022, 04:05 PM
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I would use bullet pull.
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Old 10-04-2022, 06:11 PM
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I'm another one who has always heard it called crimp jump.
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Old 10-04-2022, 10:36 PM
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Prairie dogging should only refer to a condition that sometimes occurs on long road trips.
Like in Rat Race movie.
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