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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 05-05-2009, 03:28 PM
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I spent the last two days doing weapon qualifications and training (on & off duty pistol, BUG, patrol rifle, shotgun). Here in Maine the qualification standards are set by the Maine Criminal Justice Academy, so everybody shoots the same courses of fire regardless of agency. Recently they added a new category called "Plain Clothes Pistol" to accomodate officers carrying off-duty guns and BUGs, as well retired officers qualifying under LEOSA/HR218. It is very similar to the normal duty weapon course of fire except there is no prone shooting and you shoot from a maximum of 18yds instead of 25yds. Oh, and we have to shoot each course of fire twice, back to back, for each weapon. Here's the course of fire from their website -

******************************
Maine Criminal Justice Academy
Plain Clothes Course of Fire
50 Rounds

Shooter Proficiency = 40 hits total (80%) back to back.


Total
Distance Activity Time Rounds

3 Yard 6 Rounds total - from holster

1 round standing 2 second
2 rounds standing 3 seconds
3 rounds standing 3 seconds 6 rounds

5 Yard 9 Rounds Total from Holster
Failure Drill = (2 to the chest and 1 to the head)

2 rounds standing, pulse fire, center mass 3 seconds
2 rounds standing, pulse fire, center mass 3 seconds
2 rounds standing, pulse fire, center mass 3 seconds
3 rounds, failure drill, pulse fire 3 seconds 9 rounds

7 Yard 9 Rounds Total from Holster
On the whistle, take one lateral side step and fire

2 rounds standing, pulse fire, center mass 4 Seconds
2 rounds standing, pulse fire, center mass 4 Seconds
2 rounds standing, pulse fire, center mass 4 Seconds
3 rounds, failure drill, pulse fire 3 seconds 9 rounds

10 yard 6 Rounds Total - Ready Gun

3 rounds, standing, pulse fire, center mass 3 Seconds
3 rounds, kneeling, failure drill 4 seconds 6 rounds

12 yard 4 Rounds Total - Ready Gun

2 rounds, standing, pulse fire, center mass 3 Seconds
2 rounds, standing, pulse fire, center mass 3 Seconds 4 rounds

15 yard 4 Rounds Total Ready Gun Barricade

2 rounds standing, over barricade
2 rounds kneeling, strong side barricade 10 seconds 4 rounds


18 yard 6 Rounds Total Ready Gun - Barricade
From the 25 yard line draw the weapon and safely
move to the barricade at the 18 yard line.

2 rounds standing, over barricade
2 rounds kneeling right side barricade
2 rounds kneeling left side barricade 15 seconds 6 rounds

18 yard 6 Rounds Total Center Mass - Ready Gun Move and Shoot
All weapons should have at least 6 rounds for this drill

Approach Target on Command Low Ready

Threat Command - High Ready and Verbalize ID and Command.

Fire Command 3 shots center mass

Stop, Dress Line and Command to Back-Up Low Ready

Threat Command High Ready and Verbalize

Fire Command 3 shots center mass (No Time) 6 rounds

Dress Line and Command to Back-Up Ready Gun

Shooters should be empty. Make line safe. 50 Rounds
*************************

Anyway, this was the first time I've been able to qualify with my 9mm S&W 360 that you've all seen numerous times. I had my concerns because I haven't shot it further than 12-15yds and it has been mostly plinking, making sure I was shooting "minute of ***", and general relaxed practice. Also, there have been a lot of questions about accuracy shooting .355" bullets out of a .357" barrel. Well, I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised by the gun's performance. Our targets are the narrow, coke bottle shaped "Q" targets so we score hits, not points, and I had no trouble with the course of fire shooting DAO. The first time through I scored 49 (I threw a head shot and knew it as soon as the hammer fell) and the second run was a perfect 50. The gun shot a little high using Magtech 115gr FMJ but windage was right on. I was able to use the laser at closer ranges but the sights were fine for beyond 10yds. I shot better with this gun than I did my off-duty gun, a Kahr CW9, on the same course of fire, and my duty gun, a Beretta 8000D, on the regular course. I've qualified in the past with a 642 and did not shoot this well, but, in it's defense (and mine) that was on the 25yd regular course, also.

BTW, moonclips are the way to go. I threw 10 loaded ones in my cargo pocket each time I shot and they all held together except one, which broke when I was loading it but I still got 4 rounds in. They are superfast going in and coming out with the short 9mm rounds. MUCH easier and faster than either speed strips or speed loaders.

Here is a pic of my second target, the 50/50 -



So, based on my shooting and that of the range master, who just HAD to try it out (for about 30rds), there is no appreciable loss of accuracy at combat ranges with this conversion. The gun was 100% reliable, shooting 100rds in about 35 minutes with zero issues, very controllable, and very accurate (IMO). It was also nice to be reassured that my money was well spent and this certainly bolstered my confidence in the gun.
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Old 05-05-2009, 03:47 PM
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Congrats on a great qualification! I too have been pleasantly surprised by the accuracy of a converted .38 Special J frame, in my case a 637, to 9mm. I agree that there's no appreciable difference in combat accuracy and feel very comfortable carrying my 9mm 637.
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Old 05-05-2009, 05:13 PM
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I have been wondering about the accuracy
changes.
Great report,I am glad that the conversion proved out.

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Old 05-05-2009, 06:05 PM
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Makes me wanna put a 940 cylinder in my 642-0..
Thanks for the Info..
Gary/Hk
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Old 05-05-2009, 06:32 PM
Bwilli88 Bwilli88 is offline
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That sound similar to my 9/642, and Headknocker a 642-0 really cannot handle a lot of +p 38 let alone standard 9mm. I have a 940 cylinder for my 642 and it is a real handful. I have taken to using my 940 cylinder in my S&W 60
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Old 05-05-2009, 07:31 PM
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Good to know Perfessr!!
I've got two 940s but one with a standard hammer like your Mod60 convertion would also be very cool..
Maybe I'll just stick to my 940s & 547..
Gary/Hk
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Old 05-05-2009, 08:02 PM
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Makes me want to convert my 637 powerport. I think the port would tame the recoil a little.
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Old 05-06-2009, 06:21 AM
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EV1L,
I have a standard 637, with the cylinder converted by TK Custom to 9mm. I don't have a problem with the recoil, but I have limited (so far) my ammo selection to standard pressure 9mm. I currently carry Fed 115 grain Nyclad JHP (I have 2 boxes hidden away) or Speer 124 grain GDHP (standard, not the Short Barrel). The Federal shoots POA, the Speer shoots a little lower; both are easy to manage and keep rounds on the target at the ranges I shoot. I frankly can't tell the difference in recoil between .38 Special +P and 9mm in a J frame.
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Old 05-06-2009, 06:51 AM
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I've said all along that I don't feel the 9mm recoil is bad at all. Certainly it's not like an all steel gun, but even at 13oz mine is controllable and not at all painful with standard loads. Like I said above, I went through 100rds in a little more than half an hour with no ill effects. I agree with safearm, standard loads feel like .38spl +P and they're no big deal, IMO anyway.

My carry load is Federal 9BPLE 115gr +P+ HP, it's pretty hot and you can definitely tell the difference but it's still nowhere near as bad as shooting .357mags through these light guns.

I've got that new 637 in the safe that I bought cheap from the local shop because of a couple of tiny scratches and I'll probably send the cylinder from that one off to be converted as well. I won't do all of the other stuff to it but I just don't have a need for a .38spl when all of my other carry guns are 9mm and the converted 360 has worked out so well. Plus, there's the versatility of being able to shoot a variety of calibers if need be. So far, I've only shot 9mm out of my gun but out of curiosity I think I may try it today ( weather permitting) with .38 Super and .38Spl, and maybe .380, just to see what happens. If I do I'll take some pics and post a report.
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Old 05-06-2009, 07:34 AM
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It's good to know that the recoil is manageable with the 9mm. I would use +P.

Anyone tried to chronograph the velocity of the 9mm out of a j frame with the longer converted cylinder?

Also, what about the 9mm higher pressure or that of +P, is it safe for a gun designed for less pressure ammo?
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by EV1L:
It's good to know that the recoil is manageable with the 9mm. I would use +P.

Anyone tried to chronograph the velocity of the 9mm out of a j frame with the longer converted cylinder?

Also, what about the 9mm higher pressure or that of +P, is it safe for a gun designed for less pressure ammo?
There are a number of converted guns out there and I haven't heard of any problems with 9mm pressures. The 'smith that did the work on mine hasn't had any trouble with any of the guns he's converted. My gun uses the same frame as the M&P360 so I'm not worried about it.

Here's the link to a thread I posted listing velocity info on 9mm out of a 940 compared to .357mag out of a 640. It's 6 years old but interesting none the less.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/e...?r=49810913#49810913
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:36 AM
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Good information. I'm impressed by the numbers.

Have you tried to measure it from your 360? I'm thinking the longer cylinder would drop the velocity of the 9x19, since it is chambered for 9x23? That's almost a half centimeter gap.
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:43 AM
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The cylinder length is the same for my gun as the 940. S&W didn't use short, 9mm length cyls, they just head spaced the longer .38/.357 cyl for the 9mm case, where mine is headspaced for 9x23. Same length cyl, just bored differently.
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:47 AM
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My 9mm revolver is a Ruger MNBH .357. With the 9mm cylinder, even with a pretty long jump from the case to the barrel, it shoots CCI Blazer nearly as well as it shoots .357. If your Smiths are about the same, that is very good indeed.
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Old 06-15-2018, 10:26 PM
JimCunn JimCunn is offline
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Safearm, I just had a 637-2 with titanium cylinder converted to 9mm by TK Customs. How well did yours hold up over time?
Thanks,
Jim
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Tags
380, 38spl, 547, 637, 640, 642, 940, beretta, chronograph, coke bottle grips, j frame, kahr, powerport, ruger

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