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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 03-17-2009, 09:39 AM
marine2541 marine2541 is offline
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http://www.mouseguns.com/ammoart.htm

Scroll down to .38 caliber ammunition recommendation, particularly the "Standard pressure (none +P) paragraph, just above discussion of the 9 mm ammunition. Will 642 and 442 J frames be ruined by firing over 100 +p rounds because of their aluminum frames? Is this true? If so, why is the barrel stamped with a +P?
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Old 03-17-2009, 09:39 AM
marine2541 marine2541 is offline
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http://www.mouseguns.com/ammoart.htm

Scroll down to .38 caliber ammunition recommendation, particularly the "Standard pressure (none +P) paragraph, just above discussion of the 9 mm ammunition. Will 642 and 442 J frames be ruined by firing over 100 +p rounds because of their aluminum frames? Is this true? If so, why is the barrel stamped with a +P?
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Old 03-17-2009, 09:46 AM
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are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength?  
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I believe S&W stamps the barrel 38+P because they intended you to use +P ammunition in them.
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Old 03-17-2009, 09:53 AM
marine2541 marine2541 is offline
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Yes, and thank you for replying, but will 100 +P rounds ruin the gun?
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Old 03-17-2009, 09:59 AM
dlstewart01 dlstewart01 is offline
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are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength?  
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I wouldn't think so. There are a lot of people who have fired many more than that with no issues.
S&W did not stamp +P with 100 round limit.

Just my opinion,

Don
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Old 03-17-2009, 10:15 AM
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are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength?  
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100 rounds of SAAMI +P rated ammo is not going to do any damage to the airweight Jframes.
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Old 03-17-2009, 10:29 AM
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are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength?  
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I had two old boxes of 110gr +P HP's, the hot W-W "treasury" stuff, that I picked up at a gun show. To burn it up, I used it to qualify with a 642 a few years ago, 50 rd course of fire, you go through twice, back to back. I'm very recoil tolerant but this stuff was pretty brutal. In spite of the recoil and muzzle blast the gun was fine after the 100 rounds, I didn't fare so well and ended the session with a sore wrist and two bruised up fingers. It was at least as bad as my friend's M&P340 with 125gr magnums. Anyway, your gun is plenty tough and will handle whatever you can.
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Old 03-17-2009, 11:29 AM
460v LAC du FLAMBEAU 460v LAC du FLAMBEAU is offline
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No problem with my 642 with C/T grips with the +P's. I have shot atleast 1000 rounds of Speer Gold Dots+P over the past 3 years.
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Old 03-17-2009, 11:30 AM
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I certainly hope my 642 can handle more than that, I would not be very happy with S&W if the gun blew itself up after 100 rounds.

I suspect its more speculation than anything, the frame is made from an alloy which should be tough enough to handle +P loads if your hands can handle it.
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Old 03-17-2009, 01:00 PM
GatorFarmer GatorFarmer is offline
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are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength?  
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It's a poorly written article, apparently based on old gun magazine and internet hearsay. A clue to this would come not only from the ill founded statement about a 100rd limit of +P ammunition, but also from describing the 89-90 FBI tests as "silly" and then going on to suggest that one follow the advice of Sanow and use Glasers. Mein Gott in Himmel/oy ve.

Older Airweight revolvers were no officially +P rated. However a great many users have fired a great many rounds out of them over the years without harm. There was a test carried out by a forum member (Osprey) where he fired 1000rds of +P through his 12-2 without harm.

Design changes to the current 442/642 allowed them to receive a blessing from the factory.
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Old 03-17-2009, 04:14 PM
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They may be made to handle +P ammo, but......... I had a frame crack on a new 642-2 about 2 weeks ago and it had less than 100 rounds of standard 38 ammo through it. Since that happened to me I have talked to 3 other people from the gun club that had the same thing happen to them. I have talked to S&W 3 times now in the last 2 weeks and was told the same reason as the others were. The barrels sometimes get over torqued during assembly. This process is done by machine not by hand. When talking to the factory rep about the problem, I was told that they would gladly upgrade my replacement to an all steel model if I wanted to. This tells me that there is more of a problem than maybe they are saying if they are offering to upgrade to all steel models when these models frames crack. I wonder how many are going back for problems. Seems these model also have been having trigger problems too, where the back of the trigger is cutting into the frame behind the trigger. From what I have read the trigger is nor stopping where it should and causing the problem. Seems the trigger only cuts in on one edge, maybe the over torquing of the frame has something to do with that also.
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Old 03-17-2009, 04:34 PM
dlstewart01 dlstewart01 is offline
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are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength?  
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Quote:
Originally posted by OSD:
They may be made to handle +P ammo, but......... I had a frame crack on a new 642-2 about 2 weeks ago and it had less than 100 rounds of standard 38 ammo through it. Since that happened to me I have talked to 3 other people from the gun club that had the same thing happen to them. I have talked to S&W 3 times now in the last 2 weeks and was told the same reason as the others were. The barrels sometimes get over torqued during assembly. This process is done by machine not by hand. When talking to the factory rep about the problem, I was told that they would gladly upgrade my replacement to an all steel model if I wanted to. This tells me that there is more of a problem than maybe they are saying if they are offering to upgrade to all steel models when these models frames crack. I wonder how many are going back for problems. Seems these model also have been having trigger problems too, where the back of the trigger is cutting into the frame behind the trigger. From what I have read the trigger is nor stopping where it should and causing the problem. Seems the trigger only cuts in on one edge, maybe the over torquing of the frame has something to do with that also.
I have a 642-1 at S&W right now getting the trigger problem fixed. Its no big deal. They will make an adjustment and all well be well.

I have three pistols I like enough that I will never sell any of them. One is my CS9, one is 640-1 and the last one is my 642-1. I'm sure there are others that fell the same as I do.

Just my opinion

Don

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Old 03-17-2009, 05:28 PM
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20,000 rds of +P then send it back for a tune -up.
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Old 03-17-2009, 05:46 PM
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Well more than 500 +P rounds have been rather happily (for the gun, not for me!) cycled though my 642. No worries.

This seems a bit like a thread I saw in another forum that asked why the manufacturer says only synthetic oil and warranties the engine for 100K miles. Some folks seem to know more than a manufacturer...I wonder why that is?

Be safe.
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  #15  
Old 03-17-2009, 07:16 PM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is offline
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are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength?  
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Quote:
Originally posted by marine2541:
http://www.mouseguns.com/ammoart.htm

Scroll down to .38 caliber ammunition recommendation, particularly the "Standard pressure (none +P) paragraph, just above discussion of the 9 mm ammunition. Will 642 and 442 J frames be ruined by firing over 100 +p rounds because of their aluminum frames?

NO.

Is this true?

NO.

If so, why is the barrel stamped with a +P?

Because S&W believes these revolvers are OK to shoot +P.
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  #16  
Old 03-17-2009, 07:21 PM
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are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength?  
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I've shot +P 125gr threw my 642 No Dash several Times but currently carry New Old Stock Non +P Nyclads in this perticular revolver..
I carry Spear Gold Dot 135Gr +P in my 342Ti as it's +P rated..
This will do untill something better comes along Or I'm Dead..
Gary
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Old 03-18-2009, 04:07 AM
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Obviously, a steady diet of the hottest loads could wear the gun faster, but they can shoot plenty of +p s with no problems, IME. If they went bad ater 100 rds, S&W would not stamp them +p.

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Old 03-18-2009, 07:52 AM
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are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength?  
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My 442-2 has never ate anything except +p's. I bought several boxes of Winchester 125gr +p's when I bought the gun and have not fired anything else in it. As of yet, no problems whatsoever to report. As long as I can keep hold of the little sucker, it does it's part.
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Old 03-18-2009, 10:00 AM
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Been firing +P stuff out of a 342PD for 8 or 9 years now. My hand hasn't held up as well as the gun. I figure if a Ti non-Scandium J can handle it, yours should be OK.
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  #20  
Old 03-19-2009, 10:26 AM
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are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength?  
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The article looks like an edited version of an Evan Marshall article. I can probably find the original if I look hard enough. That being said, I'm not going to pay much attention to anything written by "Anonymous." There's enough garbage floating around the internet, and if someone doesn't want to put their name on it, even if it's a "nom de plume," then I'm not going to give it much credibility.
I've carried a 642 as a issued back-up gun, a 442 as my personal BUG, and now I'll be carrying a 637 9mm conversion. I always carried +P in the 642/442 and never had a problem. I'll limit the 637 to standard pressure 9mm, as it's already appreciably higher the .38 Special +P. I've never worn out a J frame from shooting too much or shooting too powerful ammo; the limiting factor has always been what my hand could bear, not what the gun could take.
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Old 03-19-2009, 11:14 AM
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When I bought my 642 a little over two years ago they had Winchester 158gr LSWCHP +P on sale for $7.99 a box (of 50). I bought several boxes and have about half a box left. My 642 has shot a couple hundred of those and at least a hundred 158gr +P FMJ with absolutely no ill effects whatsoever.
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Old 03-19-2009, 12:48 PM
johngalt johngalt is offline
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are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength?  
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.38 is 17500 psi. .38+P is only 20,000 psi (or 18500 depending on who you read). +P isn't much over standard pressure.

642/442 are not even close to being on the ragged edge, and +P isn't going to push them over. If they couldn't survive much +P, they couldn't survive much standard pressure either.

I've shot plenty of both standard and +P through my 642, and there isn't much of a difference.
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  #23  
Old 03-19-2009, 01:51 PM
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are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength?  
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S&W puts that on the barrel to let you know that it is safe to shoot +P loads. Firearms are machines, and as such, subject to wear out faster with harder use. As with .357's it is a good idea to practice with .38 spl loads, but carry the hot stuff for self defense.
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Old 03-19-2009, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
S&W puts that on the barrel to let you know that it is safe to shoot +P loads. Firearms are machines, and as such, subject to wear out faster with harder use. As with .357's it is a good idea to practice with .38 spl loads, but carry the hot stuff for self defense.
I disagree. Practice with the same ammo (or at least equivalent) to what you use for duty/defense. If you shoot light target loads all the time, especially in these little guns) and then use hot ammo, you will not be accustomed to the recoil, poi etc. I shoot heavy +ps for practice and defense. Goes along the same lines as not policing your brass during defensive practice etc. You want to practice exactly how you intend to play, IMHO.

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Old 03-20-2009, 08:15 AM
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S&W is willing to Lifetime Warranty the new guns even with +P. When they put their money where their mouth is, that means they are confident it's ok. Sure, the gun will wear out a little sooner when using +P, but your hand will be worn out before that.
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Old 08-19-2014, 07:45 AM
baldboy baldboy is offline
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are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength?  
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No 100 rounds won't ruin the gun. I know shooters who have run more than that through their 642/442's without a hitch.
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Old 08-19-2014, 10:16 AM
HarrishMasher HarrishMasher is offline
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are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength?  
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Greg Bell over at M4Carbine.net has fired over 5,000 rounds through his 642. Many of the 5K rounds fired are +P. Every round fired is documented in the thread. The gun still looks and shoots like new. So the answer is no.

Project: Break my J frame.

Given the advancements in modern ammo, you don't need +P. The Buffalo Bore Standard Pressure Low Flash 38 loads expand down to low velocities and have excellent penetration. Speer and Hornady offer loads in standard pressure 38 that are comparable.

Last edited by HarrishMasher; 08-19-2014 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 08-19-2014, 10:18 AM
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are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength?  
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The data in the linked article appears to be a little dated and at times based on opinion.

Although there is some good info there, remember what they say about opinions.

Additionally, we J-frame owners shouldn't get so upset when someone picks on our little aluminum framed friends. We know what they are capable of and that's all that counts.

Be safe out there.

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Old 08-19-2014, 10:36 AM
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are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength?  
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Mine was $399 brand new. I don't need it to last 100 years to get my money's worth. I think it will rot away from being in a sweaty pocket long before it breaks.

I believe S&W the frame cracks are from a manufacturing flaw. It either happens or it doesn't. Ed
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Old 08-19-2014, 11:35 AM
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are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength?  
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Any S&W revolver labeled 'S&W .38 Spl +P' is meant to be carried and fired with said ammunition. My 642-2 has stood up to hundreds of rounds showing no real wear.

Taurus Ultra-Lite revolvers don't seem to like +P loads. My wife bought one and had it blow the threads off two screws within 200 rounds. Took nearly six months to get back from Taurus, then we traded.
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Old 08-19-2014, 12:03 PM
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are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength?  
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I have a M642 current production model (no lock). I bought it new, and I wouldn't hesitate to use +p -- that's what it's rated for, and if it loosens up I'll just send it back under warrantee.

I also have an old M37 (1970's) and I won't use +p in it. Too many posts about cracked frames on the Internet.

I think the tradeoff in favor of high quality standard pressure loads like Critical Defense or the standard pressure SWC hollow cavity Buffalo Bore make +p unnecessary for me.

Besides, I have my Ruger LCR 357 and my M60 if I want to use +P or magnum rounds.
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Old 08-20-2014, 07:08 AM
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are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength? are 442 and 642 J frames really +P strength?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmo View Post
The data in the linked article appears to be a little dated

It is, look at the original date this thread was posted.
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