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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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  #51  
Old 05-11-2021, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by AJR337 View Post
I realize it's not ideal/what you were hoping for but an experienced torch welder or you could try JB Weld to build up the lug and then shape it with a file?
Umm not JB Weld, but building up and shaping a new stop lug has been done successfully.
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Old 05-11-2021, 08:44 PM
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"†and see quite a bit of wear into the frame where the cylinder closes"

What does that hurt?
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  #53  
Old 05-11-2021, 11:13 PM
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I realize it's not ideal/what you were hoping for but an experienced torch welder or you could try JB Weld to build up the lug and then shape it with a file?
Drilling the frame and pressing in a steel cylinder stop lug would be a better solution. The trouble with "welding" on the frame is that you have to know the exact alloy of aluminum first and when you're done any heat treatment will be destroyed.
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Old 05-11-2021, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s&wchad View Post

The issue your having is referred to ďcylinder jumping lugĒ. That problem happens when fired cases stick in the cylinder and and you apply a lot of force on the ejector rod, without supporting the cylinder. When S&W made the change from the pressed in steel frame lug to the integral frame lug, they didnít make the ledge that limits rearward movement of the cylinder tall enough. Thatís my opinion, anyway. Itís worse on alloy frame guns, where the harder steel or titanium cylinder contacts the aluminum alloy lug..
Could it be repaired, substituting a SS lug from, say, a 65 or 686?

Edit: just saw Steelslaver posted this approach earlier, in another
scandium revolver thread.

Last edited by Steve912; 05-12-2021 at 01:21 PM.
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  #55  
Old 05-12-2021, 12:09 AM
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Well over 1000 rounds through my 340PD, 327 PC snub, 340 M&P. Probably 25% 357, the rest .38 special with more than half of those plus P.

They all are still tight, accurate, and get carried regularly. No cylinder erosion, no top strap erosion, just great, easy to carry guns with plenty of power. The 340PD is in my pocket or ankle holster 99% 9f the time I carry.

I don't care about the finish wear. My guns are for carrying and shooting.
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Old 05-12-2021, 12:26 AM
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I'll toss this in, not a fan of my scandium experience.

The end of my 340SC saga, AKA my last modern S&W

May try and drill the frame for a stud but who knows.
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  #57  
Old 05-12-2021, 10:42 AM
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Thanks for the suggestions guys, I appreciate the advice. I am going to try and install a new stop. I am considering a low heat solder designed for aluminum to build up a bit of material and then final shape with files. I will then duracoat the gun to hide the repair. Any thought or suggestions on this option would be appreciated.

Another thought I had was to perhaps replace the yoke. I would think that this is the part that has worn over time and allowed the cylinder enough play to jump over the lug in the first place. Do you guys think this would help?

Last edited by ShooterMcgavin18; 05-12-2021 at 10:50 AM.
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  #58  
Old 05-12-2021, 11:25 AM
ShooterMcgavin18 ShooterMcgavin18 is offline
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Default Wear

Upon closer inspection, it appears that the wear is most definitely in the yoke. As you will see in the attached photos, the yoke appears to be wearing on the front edge at the very bottom of yoke when the cylinder is closed.

Do you guys know if it is safe to replace this yoke with a steel part? I can purchase a yoke from Numrich for $12.
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  #59  
Old 05-12-2021, 05:58 PM
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No confusion here. I was speaking to durability. To me, the lack of "hardness" you refer to, would indicate a less durable frame. Regards 18DAI.
A file is really hard. Give one a solid tap with its flat on on the corner of a piece of heavy steel and think about how durable it was as you pick up the pieces.You can do that all day with a piece off aluminum. It will mar but not fail catastrophically


A piece of machinery chain that slaps against a piece of hardened steel plate will quickly wear both the plate and the chain. Place a piece of "soft" UHMW where the hardened wear plate was and the chain will last way way longer and hey so will the UHMW. Durable has nothing to do with hard.

Durability is all about application of materials
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Old 05-12-2021, 05:58 PM
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It should probably be noted that most will likely never SPEND the amount of money on ammo these days to "wear out a gun".

Look at Caj's matrix, in terms of rounds, compared to current market prices of ammo.

I understand where you are coming from, but seriously, I think some of the folks offering this free advice at ranges and the like need to keep perspective.
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  #61  
Old 05-12-2021, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShooterMcgavin18 View Post
Upon closer inspection, it appears that the wear is most definitely in the yoke. As you will see in the attached photos, the yoke appears to be wearing on the front edge at the very bottom of yoke when the cylinder is closed.

Do you guys know if it is safe to replace this yoke with a steel part? I can purchase a yoke from Numrich for $12.
It's difficult to see from those pictures but the wear doesn't look that bad. How's the lockup/ alignment?

Do you have access to a yoke alignment tool to check/confirm that the yoke is not bent since that could cause/contribute to the issue?

If not, they're good to have (especially if you own several revolvers)...or I'd be willing to lend you mine to test it?
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  #62  
Old 05-12-2021, 06:16 PM
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To illustrate, let's say a magical number of 17,500 round will wear out the gun.

17,500 rounds, divided by 50 (standard box), at $ 1.00 per round (current market price?) = $ 17,500.00 (easy math).

Folks can draw their own conclusions from this; which are multiple.
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Old 05-12-2021, 10:01 PM
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Default Air Weight or AirLite?

I was just on the S&W website checking on the latest MSRP of my 351C. I couldnít help but notice that they removed the Air Light from the right side of the gun and they are calling it a Air Weight in the add. Did I miss something or have they just got invaded by a snow storm?
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  #64  
Old 05-12-2021, 11:01 PM
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You are not going to weld that with a torch unless maybe a tig torch and those alloys are NOT considered weldable by any process. You can weld them but you get a weak weld affected zone with embitterment. I would mill off the alloy lug and install a steel lug just like those used on the older models.
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  #65  
Old 05-12-2021, 11:54 PM
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I was just on the S&W website checking on the latest MSRP of my 351C. I couldnít help but notice that they removed the Air Light from the right side of the gun and they are calling it a Air Weight in the add. Did I miss something or have they just got invaded by a snow storm?

Interesting. Like to hear S&W's story on this. If for nothing else than the history.

If I had one (of either) I'd call them.
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  #66  
Old 05-13-2021, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by TheHobbyist View Post
To illustrate, let's say a magical number of 17,500 round will wear out the gun.

17,500 rounds, divided by 50 (standard box), at $ 1.00 per round (current market price?) = $ 17,500.00 (easy math).

Folks can draw their own conclusions from this; which are multiple.
Even at the pre-panic price of 30 cents a round you'd still spend over 5 grand on enough ammo to wear out a $350 gun.
Hell, even reloading at normal prices of 15 cents a round its over $2500 in ammo to wear one out.
I for one wouldn't worry about it.
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  #67  
Old 05-13-2021, 02:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s&wchad View Post
ďcylinder jumping lugĒ:
When S&W made the change from the pressed in steel frame lug to the integral frame lug, they didnít make the ledge that limits rearward movement of the cylinder tall enough.
Thatís my opinion, anyway.
Itís worse on alloy frame guns, where the harder steel or titanium cylinder contacts the aluminum alloy lug.
I don't know how mine compare with others but my Sc/Al J-frames (340 & 360) have the least amount of overlap between the cylinder face & the frame lug.

My aluminum J-frame M638 seems a tad more generous in it's overlap. (All are new revolvers with little use/firing.)

Neither compare to the steel frame 66-8's overlap & solid contact between the two pieces though.

Going forward, as s&wchad suggested, I think if owners of theses revolvers would take a bit of care when ejecting spent cases, & limit pounding on the ejector rod when doing combat drills, damage to the frame lug can be lessened/eliminated by contact with the cylinder.

That's what I plan on trying to do anyway.

.
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Old 05-13-2021, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by No Quarter View Post
Well over 1000 rounds through my 340PD, 327 PC snub, 340 M&P. Probably 25% 357, the rest .38 special with more than half of those plus P.

They all are still tight, accurate, and get carried regularly. No cylinder erosion, no top strap erosion, just great, easy to carry guns with plenty of power. The 340PD is in my pocket or ankle holster 99% 9f the time I carry.

I don't care about the finish wear. My guns are for carrying and shooting.

Iíve had my 340PD as an EDC for a few years (replaced the Model 38) and while I donít shoot it as much as you, itís held up just fine. Mine is carried in a pocket holster and I donít worry about surface wear either.
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Old 05-14-2021, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShooterMcgavin18 View Post
Upon closer inspection, it appears that the wear is most definitely in the yoke. As you will see in the attached photos, the yoke appears to be wearing on the front edge at the very bottom of yoke when the cylinder is closed.

Do you guys know if it is safe to replace this yoke with a steel part? I can purchase a yoke from Numrich for $12.
I know that for $12 I would certainly try it. Looking at your yoke picture I suspect you yoke is bend out of alignment and the shaft to arm is wrong and that causes it to rub there and causes the cylinder to slide by lug. I have an older I frame 32 that had a messed up yoke that allowed cylinder to clear lug and a replacement yoke cured it. Some times the length of the tube need adjusted when fitting a cylinder to a yoke and getting them to headspace.

They do make a solder for aluminum. I have no real idea how it would work on an alloy frame. I also have no idea how much heat the hardening of the frame could actually take or the finish coat..

BUT Aluminum alloys are heat treated in a much different manner than steel. (Types of Aluminum Heat Treatments - L&L Special Furnace Co, Inc.) The working heat needed for most "low" temp aluminum solders is 730f which may well be enough to totally wreck your frame. Aluminum is heated and held at temp in an inert atmosphere oven for a lengthy period of time then quenched. In some of the treatments the oven temp is relatively low, sometimes as low as 360F. In other words, although not positive, I myself, don't think any type soldering would be any good on an alloy gun frame. I may be wrong, but I myself would not risk it.

If I had such a gun and I knew the problem was not the yoke alignment, but actual lug wear, I would mill off the new style lug and then drill the frame and install an old style steel lug. On the older guns the lug is simply inserted in a hole in frame and staked inside the action cut out. They did it for the older airweights and I see no reason it would not work on a scandium frame.

Last edited by steelslaver; 05-14-2021 at 12:59 PM.
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  #70  
Old 05-14-2021, 12:50 PM
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^^^ That would be the most expeditious fix.
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Old 05-14-2021, 01:05 PM
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PS if I ever get a chance at a new style frame with this problem that the factory will not repair for price that is worth the risk. I will try to remove the new style lug and replace with an old style pin and staked type.

No, I will not try it on someone else's frame. I do not have an FFL of any type. Receiving a frame, working on it and shipping it back would be both a hassle and illegal. I can only receive a frame with the intent of keeping it.
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Old 05-14-2021, 10:42 PM
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Just as an aside on this:

I have seen the "stressfire" smash-the-ejector-rod reload, that many teach. It's easy to find if you want to watch.

It seems like it would be especially hard on the cylinder stops of these revolvers, and the ejector rods on all of them.

I was taught a little differently, four decades (but not forty years! ) ago:

To unlock the cylinder using my right (shooting) hand with the cylinder release.

To grip and open the cylinder with my left (non-shooting) hand and point the gun vertically muzzle up.

To press and release the ejector rod with my left (non-shooting) thumb while VIOLENTLY plunging the gun downward and pulling it back up. Like your life depends on it. Like you're in a gunfight.

The ejector rod press doesn't require as much finesse to perform as it does to type. If you shake the gun hard enough, you'll release the rod naturally in the process.

This will clear the spent cases in almost every instance; especially in .38 Special. If you have to clear hangers, you do so. It's pretty rare.

There is almost no extra stress placed on the cylinder stop using this technique because you have a crush grip on the cylinder. The whole time your head is up, looking at the adversary, so you should be pretty motivated with clearing the empties.

This had nothing to do with cylinder stops. No one cared at the time. All the guns we used were steel. All the cylinder stops were press-in... (-at least I think that's how they did it) ...the round ones.

But, there you are. I still do it that way. Every time.

I still have the steel guns. But I prefer to carry the light ones, and they don't suffer at all.

Last edited by transit; 05-14-2021 at 11:49 PM.
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317, 327, 329pd, 340pd, 637, 642, airlite, airweight, colt, extractor, j frame, military, model 37, model 625, s&w, scandium, shroud, smith and wesson, taurus

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