As long as I've got my cookie blocks off I'll ask another question. Since I usually had a .45 under my arm, I carried my .38 with one or two snake shot rounds. You know the CCI shotshells with #9 shot. I've never had to fire one, and haven't been to a range since I got 'em. Anyone have anything good or bad to say about 'em. Effective range, pattern spread, barrel leading, anything at all. Forgot to mention, out of a 2 1/2" J frame mod 36.
Thanks.

As long as I've got my cookie blocks off I'll ask another question. Since I usually had a .45 under my arm, I carried my .38 with one or two snake shot rounds. You know the CCI shotshells with #9 shot. I've never had to fire one, and haven't been to a range since I got 'em. Anyone have anything good or bad to say about 'em. Effective range, pattern spread, barrel leading, anything at all. Forgot to mention, out of a 2 1/2" J frame mod 36.
Thanks.

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Pete.

I wish you good luck with them. I'd suggest if you want to feel confident, test fire a fair number at cardboard or butcher paper at the ranges you expect to get a pattern.

They used to even market just the shot cups, which you could fill with shot of your choice and then load into your own cases. I used #9 shot (because I could just rob it from 12 ga shells.) Wow was it bad. OK, terrible is a better term.

I loaded up a full 50 of them and took them to a gravel pit owned by a club I belong to. It was spring of 1986, and I can date it because a very good friend had a heart attack in the fall of 1985. He wasn't allowed to do any constructive work, but had to be with the guys. I gave him my trusty M60 and the full box of them. He was instructed to shoot the blackbirds trying to roost above our covered patio (they crapped on the picnic table.)

We were out in the back 40, putting up a fence. Every so often we'd hear the M60 speak, and we knew Grady was OK. After a few hours in the sun we retreated to the patio to check on him and maybe have a cold drink (soda, I'm sure.) By then, he'd fired all 50. We were interested in his shooting skill, and more specifically, how the shot loads had faired.

His answer was not good. He had been trying them at 20 and 30 feet without much luck. The gunshots did manage to keep the birdies flying, but they all seemed to fly off, none the worse.
Finally, on his last shot be decided to stalk. He got under a near by tree and had one land on a limb over his head. At 6' he shot it. It fell to the ground, but was trying to get up, so he stepped on it.

Maybe it was my loading skill that failed me. Maybe not, I did use the recommended load.

I have used Speer loaded 9mm shot shells and they're both hot and kind of effective on the behinds of raccoons and 'possum. Also on my downspout on the covered part of my deck.

Like with most loads, check how they work to satisfy yourself first.

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Dick Burg

I use # 7 1/2 with pretty good results at 15 feet or less. If birds were involved I'd use .45 LC which really increases the amount of shot and extends the effective range.

There was a really good review in one of the shooting magazines recently but I can't remember which one. Do some Googles...

Also, I too cut open 12 guage shells to get the shot and with the increase of shot prices I'm not sure which way is cheaper.

A number of years ago, I killed a pretty good-sized rattler outside my front door with a .38 shotshell (Speer, CCI, same thing? - I don't recall offhand), fired from a 2.5" Model 66. The distance was about 3-5 feet. Not only did it blow that snake's head off, it apparently vaporized it, as I was never able to find the head (or any part of it). I'd have to say that the factory snake/shot loads are pretty effective at close range for their intended purpose. Never tried using the shot cups and reloading, only the factory-made stuff.

I have shot them out of my 442 and they patterned ok on cans and paper out to about 12 feet. After that it was pretty opened up. It is fun to hit a few hand thrown clays with though.

Rifle or Handloader from several years back did a thorough article on handgun snake loads.

With the Speer, about 6 feet is the max for snakes, the pattern with #9's is not very dense. Load up the shot capsules with #12's and it's a different story, very dense patterns out to 8 feet.

Best factory shot load I've used is the (discontinued) crimped Remington (#12 shot) for the .45 ACP, it's a snake killer. Feeds and ejects from a 1911, not for revolvers though.

The CCI .22 shot load kills as well as anything.

They can incapacitate a snake at up to 10 ft or so, a double tap may be nec. Then you often have to finish the job for a mercy kill.

Nearly 30 years ago I bought several boxes of the Speer .38 shot shell and tested them in a 4" Model 64. The patterns pretty consistently opened up about one inch for every foot of range. Pattern density fell off rapidly, of course. I figured they'd be okay on snakes at five feet or less but beyond that I'd probably be better off with wadcutters.

I have killed a lot of snakes with CCI shotshells, I load them with #8, shot from a 4" .38 or .357, they work great for me out to about 10 or 15 feet. the closer you are, the more hits of course & them being coiled up helps too. if the snake is streched out, you need to be close. at close range they will shread a coiled snake !

years ago, I was probably around 16 at the time, we had some rats move into a bank in our yard, my Dad and I used a water hose to flush them from their holes, between me with my Smith and Wesson M15, four inch shooting the shot shells and my dalmation we got them all. The shot shells did great work on the rats, and since then I have always kept a six pack of them around.

They're intended for snakes, not birds.

I have had great luck with the factory loads in larger, 44. and 45. , on snakes at closer range which is why we carry them. Mostly I have been semi-airborn when I fired .

Several of the posters have it right.

# 12 shot makes the loads MUCH more effective than the #9 shot.

I chose #11, because I wanted to go for a little more shot weight, while improving the pattern density. Works great.

My .45 Colt shot loads (#11 shot) have a bunch more shot, but don't pattern as tightly, maybe due to the 5 1/2" barrel on the .45 revolver, vs 2 1/2" for the .38's.

Ballistic Products is a company that supplies the tiny #12, and #11 shot. It is almost unobtainable elsewhere.

Inside ten feet, a snake is toast, they're dead right there,go completely limp; no writhing around, and chomping on your dog.

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NRA Instructor

I had an old TC Contender with a 10" barrel .410/.45LC, and it did great with 3" shells on flying birds, clay pigeons, or running rabbits at short range. The revolver shotshells always seem to have such a short range, you might as well use a stick. I can't believe I sold that old TC Contender, it was a lot of fun and the newer Contenders are much longer and bulkier.

JohnK gave you the answer. #12 or #11 shot. Pattern density is considerably better. I load in 44 Special for when I am Prairie Dog shooting in SD. I had one experience with the CCI .45 ACP shot loads, after I fired two rounds the third lost it's little plastic cover and the shot all leaked out into my 1911 and effectively locked it up. I also obtained my #12 from Ballistic Products. It's pricey, but a 10 lb bag lasts about forever.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

We get a fair number of moccasins. The .38 shot shells from 2.5" and 4" guns work very well out to 15' or so. I've heard folks say the .22s aren't effective, but that's not my experience. They;ve been completely effective up to 10' from handguns. Normally takes more than one to kill, but they do work.

The advantage of the .22 is that it rarely damages anything other than the snake - I've shot them off of the house, and PVC and copper pipe without any damage.

Thanks for all the responses. As I said, I only wanted them around to deal with snakes. I kept the .38 loaded with 2 shotshells and 3 hardball. I figured that could take care of any 'snakes' crawlies or on 2 feet.
While I reload hardball, I've never looked at the shotshells for reloading. Didn't seem like I'd ever use enough to make it worth the bother. Are you using standard hardball dies, or something specially made for shotshells?
Thanks,

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Pete.

I have loaded a "peck" shotloads using the various caliber Speer shot capsules. #12 is FAR superior for pattern density (as several here have stated). At the distances that they are effective (max 15 feet) the light weight of the #12 shot is not germain. Penetration is more than adequate for snakes and rats at 15 feet. They are not very good for small game. It is too difficult to get to within their effective range.

.22 magnum factory shot cartridges do a good job, also.

Snakes are not dangerous when they are fifteen feet away, so the short range capability is not a problem (15 feet and closer they are toast!).

You can easily shoot a snakes head off with a good pistol or revolver loaded with conventional ammo. However, on rocky ground, where you might get a ricochet back in your teeth (not good!),the shot much reduces the danger where the rattlers lurk...

Dale53

How would these shells work in a 642 with a 1 7/8" barrel?
There are two nice lakes in the community where we live, and we also have our share of the nasty snake breeds.
Got a new Loomis rod and Shimano reel I'm getting ready to try out, and would like to keep the nasties at bay if need be.

My experience has been that most shot loads work better from a short barrel. I'll try to find that article....

jacksmyname;
The 642 is a good platform for snake loads. It also is an "easy carry" on the stream.

Dale53

Thanks Dale. Have two 642's here; one for me and one for my wife, for warm weather cc.
Ordered a box of the shells last night.

I went with shot loads (instead of ball/solid ammo)for snakes, after blasting a copperhead into the air. It nearly draped around my neck.

Kinda like making a tin can dance, it'll sometimes do the same with a snake. Not good. at all.

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NRA Instructor

I tried some CCI out of my S&W 340SC and like the pistol's barrel says -- "No less than 120 gr bullet." With each shot the capsules jumped their crimp and stuck out the front of the cylinder and I had to push them back in before rotating for another shot. I, too, have found that short barrels work better and I did a comparison between a 3" and a 6" Judge to verify that. I think the .22 loads are way too light to be effective and I have had bad luck with them on snakes except at ranges of only two or three feet. Here in Alabama we're crawling with snakes, some good, some bad, and I carry an ultralight Judge loaded with #9 to make quick work of things.

In NC Montana, we've had a Prairie Rattlesnake infestation in the last 10 years and I imagine I've killed 60-70 in that time. I've used handloaded 38 shot loads (CCI hulls) for maybe 25 of them. I use #8 shot 'cause that was the smallest I had in cheap shotgun shells. I had VERY poor patterns @ 10 feet until I slowed down the pellets by using a light powder charge. That helped a lot and they are very effective @ 8-10 feet. This is out of a 2" model 60 or a 2 1/2" model 19. The .22 shotshells also work fine for me - I liked Rem best (larger shot) but can't find them any more - the CCI .22 shotshell loads hold more shot than the others but Win and Federal also kill rattlers at 6 feet with no problem (in the late 80s I once killed 24 in one day with Win .22 shotshells out of a 4" model 34). At our farm I keep a single shot .410 behind the door so that my wife can kill rattlers when I'm not handy. 2 1/2" shells with #9 shot allow her to stay 15-20 feet away and still kill the snake easily.

Same here Doc. I shoot rats around the chicken house all the time. Flushing them out with a water hose makes great sport...if not for the rats, at least for me.

I used to buy the CCI ones but now I load my own. Speer still makes the shotcups for handloading. Short barrels work best for me regarding pattern. I've killed MANY BIG RATS with my 642 and this model 12.

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C & L

I haven't killed anything with them and doubt I would try unless I was REAL close. I tested the pattern at 10 feet out of my model 13 and was shocked at how wide the pattern was. This is a 4 inch barreled gun.

I have some for my .44 Special and haven't tried those yet. I hope they do a little (actually, a lot) better.

I happened to find this post looking for Model 34 posts. I have a four inch Model 34 which is usually used for killing dangerous tin cans. I use cheap .22 LR for this. But, around here in Florida we have poisonous Bufo toads which are very dangerous to dogs. I use .22 CB cartridges for the toads. I have also nailed one rat with the load.I am in sort of suburban setting and Long Rifle too loud and powerful for home use. I have never used a shot shell, but I think this probably too loud.

I have loaded LOTS of the shot loads using Speer capsules. Mine have mostly been the .38's although I have .38's, .44's, and .45's. The absolute key to success with these IS #12 shot, as we have mentioned above. Load five and pattern them. When you get an effective load, load the rest. Do NOT try to load to high velocity. What you want is a good pattern. The velocity will be enough for their maximum range (20 feet). As "Cocked & Locked" has pointed out, they CAN be effective.

My mother-in-law had a bunch of feral cats that took up residence in her barn and were beginning to be a problem. I armed my two sons with a Model 14 Smith with Speer shot capsules and in two sessions had the problem solved. They had instructions to NOT bother two cats who had the seal of approval but to remove the rest of them. This they did and the shot cartridges did perfectly well. NO collateral damage (this can be quite important around expensive farm machinery).

Dale53

From about 2 feet away, I shot an 8" diameter snapping turtle head on, while he had his head well out of the shell. Speer .38 shotshell fired from a 2" J-frame. It gave him an ugly case of acne but not of the pellets penetrated his skull, and boy was he pissed!
Next round was a JHP into his shell, that did the job.

Hi All,

Several years ago I loaded up a fair few Shot Loads, using .357 cases for extra length, I put a moderate charge of red dot powder, than seated a thick (0.060 or so) plastic wad, cut from an ice cream container lid using an old re-sized 38 case as a wad punch of sorts.

then fill the case with as much no.9 shot as would fit, then another card over the top, then a really heavy crimp, and I mean really heavy, the case mouth was crimped in as far as I could get it, without the heavy crimp, unburnt powder etc was the result, heavy crimp was good.

Shot at 7-8 yards, into a heavy piece of 1/2" builders ply that was 12" x 12", there was not a area any bigger than a 3/4" dia coin that didn't have a pellet in it, the pellets were going in to the board well over half way through.

I never got to hit a snake with one, but I have no doubt any snake would be toast if hit with one of these.

I was using my 6" 686 at the time and point of impact was perfect for my 125Gr hot hot HP load.

I now live well out of town in brown snake country, so a few more may have to be built before summer comes again.

PS: forgot to add, the recoil was simillar to a WW 125gr factory .38 spec load, not a +p, just the regular lead load.

For .41Mag fans: Since Speer doesn't make .41 shot capsules, I concocted the following after various tests.
7grs. Bullseye
Gas check facing up
140grs. #9 shot
Gas check facing down & then crimp.
I tested them on potatoes @ 10'. Tore chunks off the "snake's head". I'll have to order some #12 shot to see how it works.
Hang-Fire Hank
USAF Veteran
NRA Benefactor Life
NRA Pistol Instructor

Mike Ventrino
Did a piece on shotshells in pistols and he used #12 shot with good results so that is what I use and have the same good results. Nothing more needs to be said

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DAV

Are you sure?

Looks like I went a different direction with the shotshells. I bought a box of caps to reload & tried 9 shot at 50ft out of a 6" barrel. They were terrible, couldn't break a clay pigion.
I loaded them up with 5 shot & it was game on. Used to use them on a skeet range. It got to where I could break 9 to 12 birds a round. Used to luv when hunters showed up that never shot skeet before. They'd look good out there with their camo 12ga's with shell holders on the stock. I'd take my 586 out & shoot a round with them, the look on their faces at the end of the round was priceless.

I carry my snubie 38 loaded with 3 shotshells and 2 wad cutters all through early bow season here in Mississippi for snakes.

The local Game Warden was talking with me and said. "You know a weapon with you while bow hunting is illegal ? But I don't blame you on the snake protection, no problem I didn't see anything"

I buy the .357's. They've done a good job on snakes for me out far enough the snake couldn't reach to strike My usual summer carry gun is a 2.5" Ruger SP101...

I sometimes pack my .45 Colt Mt. Gun with shotshells. Now those are snake killers...

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Gotta love N-frames...

Forrest r, did you try any other shot sizes? Say #6 or #4? I have sometimes wondered if larger shot sizes would be less scattered by the rifling, especially the shallow rifling used on modern S&W revolvers.

Thanks,
Niklas

NiklasP, all I had was 71/2's & 5's. I used the 71/2's for skeet & trap, the 5's for hunting. I tried the 71/2's first. I tested them by setting clay pigions in the bank of a 50' pistol range. I shot a couple of cylinders at different pigions. The 71/2's wouldn't break the pigions every time. The 5's broke every target with ease, so that's what I used.

Larger shot have more energy. However, when you actually pattern them, you'll find that coarse shot leaves great holes in the pattern. If you don't hit the snake, it doesn't matter WHAT you "don't hit it with".

#12 shot has plenty of energy at 10-15 feet and that is ALL you need as long as you have a decent pattern. #12 shot will give you that pattern. If the snake is further than 15 feet I leave it alone unless it needs to be removed because it is around inhabited dwellings, etc. Then, I just get close enough (but far enough away that it can't reach me) and "remove" it. #12 shot will shred a snake at the necessary range.

Dale53

Dale53,

Forrest r's report of #5 shot breaking clays easily at 50 feet indicates that those larger shot spread out lots less than smaller shot. I have seen this effect when developing scatter loads. A load of #5 shot that breaks clays at 50 feet is a load that is much denser closer.

Like others, if snake is not close enough to strike me, I leave it alone. However, there are other uses for revolver shot loads, for which an acceptable pattern of larger shot, #5s or #6s for instance, would be nice.

Niklas

"I shot an 8" diameter snapping turtle head on"

Shoot, a litte one like that should be in an aquarium. Most of the ones I saw while I was living in Alabama where closer to two feet across.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I've loaded and carried the Speer capsules for years in .38/.44 SPLs. Usually I loade #9 for .38 and #7.5 for the 44 (will have to try the #12) Found a few copperheads around the new house (NC coastline) after moving in and where dispatched with a 410. However, I usually throw on a pistol with afew shotshells loaded first when yard working. I do have an older TC Contender 10" .357 hotshot bbl. With the choke in (stops/slows down the spin of the shotshells from the rifled bore) and I get 3-4" patterns at 15 feet. Hank thanks for the .41 info as that is my favorite cartridge and I'll load some for my M58.

CD

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De Oppresso Liber

A few years ago I tried some of the CCIs out of a 2" Taurus 85 on a B27 around 20-30 feet away and the entire target was pelted with itty-bitty holes. I can't say it proved anything, but since I picked up eight packs at a local walmart for $2 each I wanted to see what they would do.

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I miss my 4546 the most.

I have used quite a few Speer shotshells over the years.
I first loaded them myself using the capsules from Speer.

In fact just a few days ago I found 75 rounds that I loaded 11/2/76 [thats right 1976!!] with #9 shot in 44 Special cases using 7.5gr of Unique.

After Speer started making the factory loads I just bought and used them.

I have used mostly 44 Mag, and 45 ACP. The wife and I have taken a lot of small game for the pot, squirrel, rabbits, quail, and grouse. We have also killed a lot of snakes with them. I even killed some dangerous snakes in Africa with them in a44 Mag.

I have also used them in 38 and 9mm with pretty good results, especially on snakes.

I never go into the field without several of them.