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Old 02-04-2009, 09:06 PM
John Wist John Wist is offline
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I know that this was developed for J-Frames but would it be a good in a 4 inch m-19? I want to use it for home defense. My other choice is federal or remington 357s (125 grain SJHP) but I am worried about noise/muzzel blast indoors and at night. what does everyone think?
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:06 PM
John Wist John Wist is offline
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I know that this was developed for J-Frames but would it be a good in a 4 inch m-19? I want to use it for home defense. My other choice is federal or remington 357s (125 grain SJHP) but I am worried about noise/muzzel blast indoors and at night. what does everyone think?
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:14 PM
norfdet norfdet is offline
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I have been told by an inside source that this round while made at the request of the NYPD for their 2" revolvers still in service, it will also work in their 4" service weapons too. I also don't think that it will fragment as easily because of the increased pressure of the 4" barrel, so the short answer is yes. I use it in my 3" and 4" K frames and it is great.
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Old 02-05-2009, 12:35 AM
RON in PA RON in PA is offline
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My understanding is that while the Speer 135 grain GD SB was developed at the request of the NYPD for use in snubbies, it is also the official, issued round for the remaining grandfathered 4" revolvers.
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Old 02-05-2009, 05:43 PM
perpster perpster is offline
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Norfdet and Ron in PA are both correct. Use as desired; the 4" tube won't cause any squibs.
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Old 02-05-2009, 06:51 PM
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Wheelgunner840 Wheelgunner840 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by norfdet:
I also don't think that it will fragment as easily because of the increased pressure of the 4" barrel, .
What do you mean by "fragment"? This is not frangible ammo to the best of my knowledge.

WG840
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Old 02-06-2009, 12:44 AM
perpster perpster is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wheelgunner840:
Quote:
Originally posted by norfdet:
I also don't think that it will fragment as easily because of the increased pressure of the 4" barrel, .
What do you mean by "fragment"? This is not frangible ammo to the best of my knowledge.

WG840
I'm thinking that what norfdet is saying is that the short barrel ammo won't be prone to fragmenting even though fired from a 4" barrel. In other words, don't worry about fragmentation, as it isn't an issue.
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Old 02-07-2009, 12:37 AM
panamajack310 panamajack310 is offline
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John,
I use these rounds in my J frame and L frame revolvers with snubby barrels. Ilove them they are a reduced recoil and are very accurate. I have found the expansion of the round is also very good. I would say they will work fine in you 4"
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Old 02-08-2009, 01:49 PM
Texas Star Texas Star is offline
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You can call Speer/CCI, but I think they are good to go in a four-inch barrel.

You're probably adding about 100 FPS to snub velocities, but I think the bullet will stand that.

May have somewhat reduced penetration, due to the wider expansion, but it should suffice.
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Old 02-08-2009, 08:14 PM
OIF2 OIF2 is offline
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The LAPD has also adopted this round for use in 2" (still popular for back-up and off-duty use) and the remaining 4"and 6" revolvers still carried. It has worked very well in several shootings.
Bob
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Old 02-09-2009, 05:07 AM
norfdet norfdet is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wheelgunner840:
Quote:
Originally posted by norfdet:
I also don't think that it will fragment as easily because of the increased pressure of the 4" barrel, .
What do you mean by "fragment"? This is not frangible ammo to the best of my knowledge.

WG840
I have read about HP rounds breaking apart from too much pressure (meaning a longer barrel) instead of mushrooming as intended.
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Old 02-09-2009, 01:07 PM
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I believe core & jacket seperation is what he is talking about. Is the Gold Dot bullet bonded?
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Old 02-09-2009, 01:22 PM
38-44HD45 38-44HD45 is offline
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Some Gold Dot bullets, driven fast enough, can be made to fragment, even though they are bonded. For instance, some Double Tap 10mm loads will do it. Does one care? I think not. Criticism of fragmentation, in a self-defense context, is misplaced, as long as penetration is adequate. The wonderful Remington 125gr. semi-jacketed hollowpoint is one fragmenting ***, and is legendary for its stopping potential.

As for the 135gr. SB load, I don't think bullet integrity would be a problem from a 6" barrel, much less a 4". I've tested expension in water from a 4-incher, and weight retention was right at 100%. I keep the load in my 340PD, my 3" 65s, and one of my 4" 19s.
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Old 02-10-2009, 11:30 AM
marvin knox marvin knox is offline
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I'd read posts about the .357 version of the round. It travels around 1000ish. People have said that it sometimes looses its tip in newsprint testing at those speeds. I lost some confidence in the round because of this.

I switched to the DPX round for that reason and havn't looked back. People are right, though. It probably wouldn't matter much if it did loose it's tip if the penetration was OK anyway.

I wrote Speer about the question and received the following *(PARAPHRASED)* answer.

"The 135gr. bullet used in both the .38 and the .357 can be overdriven at .357 speeds. Being a bonded bullet - it will hold together nicely even if it does loose it's tip and give adequate penetration. It should be a good self defense round for your .357 snub."

I wasn't comfortable, as I said, with words like "overdriven" and "should be a good" etc. I switched. But that's just the way I roll. But in truth I doubt that the problem would cause any real difficulty. I may even cause some extra wound chanel damage as it comes apart - sort of like the old style 125gr. rounds that gave the .257 it's reputaion - only a lot less extra fragging than those old rounds had. I just liked the idea of a round (DPX) that couldn't loose it's tip or separate from it's jacket (because it has none).

I'm happy with my decision. But, as I said, it's probably not a big issue.

A longer .38 spl. barrel will drive the round up to .357 speeds (pretty low in the Speer .357). The situation from a longer barrel .38 spl. should be just about like the dilemma I had with my particular choice. It hasn't bothered NYPD to use it at greater speeds, it seems.

It's a lot cheaper than the DPX and even a lot cheaper than the .357 Speer for short barrels as well - especially if you buy it in 50's from Streicher Police Supply or some such.
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