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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 02-08-2009, 01:59 PM
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The latest Smith revolvers that arrived at my range/gunshop had what looks like a stainless flame cutting guard installed where, well, where the flame cutting takes place. Does anyone know if these are retrofittable to an existing revolver?
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Old 02-08-2009, 04:45 PM
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I always wondered when they would add something like that. Sure would be cheap and easy, and you could even make them replaceable. I thought of putting a plate in there with Krazy Glue or something.
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Old 02-09-2009, 12:08 AM
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What I'm waiting for is development of a thin paste-like substance to apply to the face of Ti cylinders which would help stop premature erosion when using Mag ammo under 120 Grains in .357s.
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Old 02-09-2009, 06:32 PM
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It looks dreadfully easy and simple. Check out the latest offerings on the Smith webpage to see what I'm talking about. A folded piece of stainless, with I'm assuming the flat against the topstrap, and a small semi-circulare cutout where it fits against the forcing cone. The fold apparently provides enough tension to hold the thing in place.

I'm thinking of making one myself, but I'll wait to see if Smith answers my email about the piece.

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Old 02-09-2009, 08:38 PM
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It's not that easy, they are secured in place when the barrel and shroud are torqued. If one comes loose the gun has to go back.
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Old 02-10-2009, 07:49 AM
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On old fashiond revolvers with one piece barrels and stainless or regular steel metals you will get cutting to a point. Have never seen one cut to a danger point. Spare parts usually not necessary.
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Old 02-10-2009, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ENH:
It's not that easy, they are secured in place when the barrel and shroud are torqued. If one comes loose the gun has to go back.
I've had my 329PD back to the factory twice to have the shield replaced. When I inquired about replacement shields, I was told that the bbl has to come off to do it right. I'm not equipped to do this. So.....when it fails for the 3rd time, back it will go.I've tried keeping track of the number of rounds before failure, but, well, you know how that goes. I'd guess I got about 1000 rounds outta each one.
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Old 02-10-2009, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shuz:
Quote:
Originally posted by ENH:
It's not that easy, they are secured in place when the barrel and shroud are torqued. If one comes loose the gun has to go back.
I've had my 329PD back to the factory twice to have the shield replaced. When I inquired about replacement shields, I was told that the bbl has to come off to do it right. I'm not equipped to do this. So.....when it fails for the 3rd time, back it will go.I've tried keeping track of the number of rounds before failure, but, well, you know how that goes. I'd guess I got about 1000 rounds outta each one.
Twice?? Doesn't look like they can do it right, either.
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Old 02-10-2009, 08:32 PM
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You'll note that not all S&Ws use the flame cutting shield. It was considered and rejected for the .500 Mag according to a S&W engineer I know. Don't remember the reason for not incorporating it though. Even though the .500 Mag doesn't have a bad rep for flame cutting, I'd still have preferred to have one if it were feasible. Don
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Old 02-10-2009, 08:34 PM
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Does anyone have a pic they can post of one of these shields???

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Old 02-10-2009, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wayne M:
On old fashiond revolvers with one piece barrels and stainless or regular steel metals you will get cutting to a point. Have never seen one cut to a danger point. Spare parts usually not necessary.
One of the SW rental revos at the range here cut the top strap through and sent the barrel downrange one day. I think if was a model 66 or similar.
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Old 02-11-2009, 07:09 AM
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The first picture is the top strap of a S&W Model 329 PD (Scandium/Titanium .44 Mag). The shinny metal insert is a gas shield that supposedly ruduces/prevents top strap erosion/gas cutting. Picture taken after 1,900 rounds of .44 Mag Level loads

The second picture is of that same S&W 329 PD after the gas shield eroded in half and fell off -- bare metal under the gas shield. S&W replaced the frame on this gun under warranty. This happened after 2,780 rounds of .44 Mag level loads.

The third picture is of the gas shield that was shot in half and fell out of the gun at 2,780 rounds.
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:19 PM
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Very nice pictures Paul. Would you share the load(s) you use in your 329PD?
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Old 02-12-2009, 07:29 PM
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They were all factory loads

Just kidding. Mostly used 240 to 260gr Cast Bullets with 17.0 to 20.0gr of A2400. Depending upon powder lot and bullet, these loads actually chrononed at 1,100 to 1,200 fps. For reference, the Remington Factory 240gr JFP chronoed 1,240 fps.

I sent an email to S&W with the first picture (blast shield intact, but eroded) to see if this was normal. S&W emailed me back saying it was. Later when I sent the two guns in at the same time (see below) the Rep I talked with told be that shouldn't happen and querried me about the loads I was using. He was simultaneously entering guns serial number on his computer and quickly backtracked when he saw the gun's repair history.

I've had three 329s. The first one self destructed and was replaced under warranty. I ordered a second one so that I would always have one if anything happened to the replacement. These two revolvers have both been back to S&W twice for replacement of the blast shield. I shot approx 8,000+ thru the 329s. I say appox because I only started keeping track after the first one self destructed (I have over 6,500 rnds thru the remaining two guns).

I significantly reduced my shooting with these guns because they were starting to effect my shooting wrist and I got tired of sending them back for repairs.

I still carry one all day everyday and wouldn't be without it. It is loaded with 260gr WFNGC over a stiff dose of H110 for around 1,300 fps and is the perfec power to wight ratio for my purposes.

Paul
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Old 02-12-2009, 07:40 PM
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Old 02-12-2009, 07:43 PM
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Ok,I've stayed with this so far. I have a 327PC snub nose, as far as I can see the shield is press fitted between the top strap and forcing cone. The side to side measurements look like they should fit my K&L frame pistols, the gap measurement is the unknown between the top strap and forcing cone. As a retired automotive machinist I do not see how the threaded in barrel could retain the shield. Please offer up a better explanation.
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Old 02-13-2009, 12:50 PM
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Paul 105--Thanks for sharing your load info. I started using 8.0g of Green Dot and 429421 sized .429 and they kept jumping crimp. In fact, nearly all cast boolits I tried jumped crimp unless they were less than 225g or so in weight. I then reduced the expander ball in my Dillon Square Deal B to .423 and that problem went away. I kinda attributed my gas shield cutting to a faster powder like the Green Dot, so I switched to 2400 or WC820 and I think that has helped. My current carry load is 18.0g of 2400 and a 225g 429244HP that has been scalped to achieve that weight. I haven't chronographed that combo yet, but, based on other 4" Smith 629's, I'd guess the velocity is somewhere between 1050 to 1150 fps.
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Old 12-18-2016, 08:31 PM
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sar4937, the shield is held in place by the cut in the top strap. That holds the piece, and tension from the bend on the forward end holds it in place. There is a small cutout on the shield above the forcing cone and the wider angled sides of the shield hold the part in place side-to-side. At first glance it appears the shield is sitting on the top strap. But if you look close, you will see the tiny cutout in the top strap.

My shield was loose without firing a shot, sliding sideways. I tapped it out, widened the angle a bit, and tapped it back in place making sure to keep the rear of the shield in the top strap's cutout. That's the secret!

Oh, this is an old post! sorry!!
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Old 12-19-2016, 12:49 AM
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I've only seen the blast shield used on scandium frame guns. The Sc alloy is mostly aluminum. And the guns are mostly magnums (but not always). Hence the need.
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Old 12-19-2016, 06:08 AM
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S&W used to cut a scoop in the topstrap area where flame cutting occurs. But it was in the "pre-magnum" days (not sure when they quit, WWI-ish?), so I guess it was more for fouling control with black powder loads. But it has always seemed to me a way to minimize damage from high pressure gasses as well.
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Old 12-19-2016, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illyia Kuryakin View Post
Does ANYBODY realize that for every micrometer of flame-cutting depth, ..!
Mostly true. But the combination of the .357 Magnum cartridge, and an othetwise unprotected aluminum frame, would bring to mind the phrase... "A hot knife thru butter."
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:59 AM
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Just an FYI - this is a Zombie thread from 2009.

I'm pretty sure the OP either got his answer from Smith or not.

----

As far as I can recall, flame cutting only proved to be a problem on a very small number of steel frame revolvers chambered in calibers like .357 Maximum.

Otherwise as noted above, in a steel frame revolver, flame cutting is a self limiting process that stops before it weakens the top strap to any significant degree.

Last edited by BB57; 12-19-2016 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 12-19-2016, 12:25 PM
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Many years ago the old timers at my range use to make their own out of soda cans while shooting hot magnums out of model 19's.Crude with a one range session use,but still effective.
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Old 12-19-2016, 04:12 PM
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I remember reading about someone who used "liquid steel" to try and glue a home made blast shield up in there above the barrel throat.
Blew right off the first shot
I have a 396. Aluminum alloy frame 44 special.
No flame shield. No apparent flame cut either.
Then again I don't shoot boxes of ammo thru it.
Only obvious flame cut I have is on my DW 7445 supermag.
I shot many hundreds of rounds some of which I am sure were in the 50 kpsi range.
We had no idea what we were doing at first with guys like Taffin egging us on.
The flame cut only got so deep and stopped as has been observed by many.
I am convinced by this that Ruger over-reacted to the flame cutting on their 357 Max.
The top straps on both of these are massive.
The barrel throat shows some erosion (a lot of W680 went up there) whereas the cylinder face shows none.
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File Type: jpg DanWessonBarrelErosion1.jpg (200.9 KB, 75 views)
File Type: jpg DanWessonChamferChamberThroats2.jpg (158.0 KB, 62 views)
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Old 12-19-2016, 04:31 PM
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Nemo, my 396 has the metal guard on it. Strange it does and yours does not.
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Old 12-19-2016, 04:55 PM
S&WIowegan S&WIowegan is offline
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I also have only seen the protective guards on my scandium revolvers. I have also seen flame cutting on both carbon and stainless steel revos but it always seems to be self limiting.

Nemo: You probably know Taffin destroyed his wrists and had surgery on them. He rarely shoots ultra-hot ammo anymore. I'm only a couple years younger than John so I limit the big boomers.
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Old 12-19-2016, 05:34 PM
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Well this 396 is actually a -1 with the lock.
Maybe they 'improved" it by eliminating the flame shield.
No sign one was ever installed (got the gun used).
The close up pic shows shooting residue, no major cutting I can detect, maybe the slightest trace.
Have not cleaned the gun after shooting it a few days ago.

Interesting about Taffin.
I did not know that but don't read a lot of gun rags anymore.
His 44 book (available online) is a classic
http://sixguns.com/BookOfThe44/
I protect my wrists by now shooting heavy boomers in full bull Encore barrels.
5+ pounds reduces recoil quite a bit!
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File Type: jpg 396-1BeforeLockRemoval.jpg (243.1 KB, 53 views)
File Type: jpg 396-1BarrelThroat.jpg (260.8 KB, 68 views)
File Type: jpg 12inEncoreBrake.jpg (236.7 KB, 46 views)
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Old 12-20-2016, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemo288 View Post
....I have a 396. Aluminum alloy frame 44 special.
No flame shield. No apparent flame cut either....
Note that it is NOT a magnum. SAAMI specs on the Special and Mag. are very different. Maybe that's why S&W deemed the .44 Special gun didn't need the shield. It's actually a pretty mild round. Half the max pressure of the .44 Mag.
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Old 12-20-2016, 08:42 AM
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The 315 Scandium Night Guards do not have a shield but the 327 NG does apparently only for magnum rounds.
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