I am a returning shooter from 20 years ago and am trying to get back into the game.
I am shooting 22s quite well at 50' on the range.

So, I got a new, (this spring) 686.
I have put approx 1000 rounds of various 38s, 38 specials and 357s through it.

It may be only me, but I have had several more experienced shooters try to get a group with this gun and it seems to shoot all over the paper at 50' even from a sandbag rest.
It is possible to completely miss the target from a rest at 50'.

It doesn't seem possible to sight it in because it won't group well even from the bench.

Has anybody else experienced any accuracy problem with a newer 686?

I really would rather not send it back to S&W if the problem is me.. but others at the range don't seem to be able to get a good group with it either... sooo what to do besides
more practice??

Shooting a couple of times a week now and putting 100 through this gun every time but don't seem to be getting any improvement.

Any tips???

Bob Flumere
[email protected]

First welcome to the forum, How often do you clean it and are you shooting lead?

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As the King said, I'd start by being sure ALL the lead and copper are cleaned out of the barrel. Badly fouled barrels shoot all over the place.

Then I'd shoot a good load, like a factory Remington jacketed 158gr.
If you have someone there who shoots revolver in competition, ask them to shoot it and see what they think.

My 686s group well with most loads, and very well with their favorites. I shot one at IDPA yesterday that will put all its shots into the 8" center of the target at 35 yrds with ordinary plated bullet reloads.

A couple of years back my brand new Model 629 just barely kept its shots on a 2ft by 2ft target at 25 yards from a solid rest. Turned out the muzzle crown had a defect that destabilized the bullets. After a quick trip to a gunsmith the gun now shoots 1"-2" groups at 25 yards.

Most 686's are very accurate revolvers. However it is possible that you have a lemon so you should check the Barrel/Cylinder gap with a feeler gage. If it's over 0.009 inch, I would have a gunsmith, or S&W correct it. However, S&W will probably tell you that 0.012 inch is acceptable. The second thing you should check is the forcing cone after a range session, if it looks like the bullet is striking uneven, or shaving lead or jacketing, it's a sign the gun should be sent in to S&W for correction. If you can't find anything visible, odds are good that it's not the gun. It's not that easy to shoot a Double Action revolver well, which is one reason why I like shooting them, I like the challenge. Following is what I have learned about this skill.

First, when you are trying to sight it in, are you shooting in Single or Double Action? If your shooting Double Action, even shooting off a sandbag rest can produce poor results if your trigger control isn't up to snuff. I do all my sighting in by using Single Action to eliminate issues with pulling against a heavy trigger.

Second, when you are trying to sight it in, are you shooting groups or single shots and making an adjustment after each shot? If your not shooting groups, it's very easy to end up chasing flyers. At a minimum shoot a 3 shot group before any adjustment and 6 is much better.

Third, you have to know where you are hitting relative to your point of aim. That means that you'll have to move the target in close enough to hit the target and see where you are grouping.

Fourth, it's easy to get crossed up on which way to turn the adjustment screws. If you thought you adjusted the sight to shift the POI to the right and it actually moved left, LISTEN to what the gun is telling you. For some reason I almost ALWAYS turn the elevation screw in the wrong direction and I have had to learn to listen to what the gun is telling me the hard way, by burning up ammo.

Fifth, the standard Hogue Combat grip on the 686 is too small for the average male. I have found the X Frame grip for the 500 Magnum is much better for my hand size because it increases the trigger reach enough that I can't "second joint" the trigger. In addition the larger grip also provides a vast improvment in recoil control and comfort when shooting full power Magnum loads.

Finally, try and avoid shooting 357 Magnums too much until your completely comfortable with that level of recoil, otherwise you will most likely end up fighting a flinch. Nearly everyone who shoots a high power handgun will end up having to correct a flinch at some point. If you start too soon with the high power stuff, a flinch can become ingrained and much more difficult to correct. One easy way to identify this problem is to either load 1 or 2 snap caps in the cylinder or leave a spent case in a couple of chambers. Then spin the cylinder with your eyes closed and close the cylinder. Once you hit that dead chamber, you'll see quite quickly if your flinching. If that is your problem, then purchase 200 or 300 rounds of low power target loads in 38 spl. and practice with that until you stop flinching and are prefectlly comfortable. I have also found it helpful to warm up by just dry firing the gun at the start of each session.

My 686 no dash with 6 inch barrel will cut one hole at 15 yards off a rest. it's way more accurate then I am.

This may be your problem. My 686 is very accurate, but it is very sensitive also to any changes in ammo. Any time I change powder/bullet/charge rate, I must resight the gun. I suggest cleaning you gun well, both cylinders and barrel. Get some good factory ammo......mine liked remmie 125 SJHPs( I shoot very little factory ammo anymore). Shoot off a solid rest or bags single action @ 15 yards. If you get good groups the answer is obvious, if not, I'd have someone knowledgeable look at it.

My 15 year old 6" 686 can hold a 2" group at 25 yards with full power handloads. This assumes using a sandbag rest.

My 686-6, with MIM parts and lock, is among my most accurate handguns. At 10 yards I'm disappointed if I don't put six rounds in an overlapping group, shooting offhand. At 25 yards, 2 - 3 inch groups are my norm, but I suspect the gun is capable of shooting much more accurately than I can, so I'm guessing that someone else would do better with the same gun.

I have noticed that the POI changes markedly depending on what ammo I fire. I've got the sights adjusted on my for .38 special semi wadcutters. At 10 yards, it shoots exactly to POA with this ammo. 148 gr. 38 special wadcutter also will hit just at POA using the sights at this adjustment. However, shooting 125 gr. .357 magnums at the same distance with the sights set exactly the same will consistently give me groups that are 3" lower.

But, that's clearly not the gun, it's the ammunition. Using the same ammunition in my model 27 gives me similar results, i.e., higher velocity rounds shoot consistently lower than slower rounds.

I have shot several S&W revolvers that clover leaf all shots at 15 yards. Your 686 should touch all 6 shots at 15 yards with ease and group under 2 inches at 25 yards. Of course there are factors such as loads, shooting ability, etc.

When in doubt have an experienced shooter shoot your gun and see what it does in their hands.

If it seems like a big gun to you it may be flinching. If the other shooters are 22 fans they could be doing it too. The simple way to check I know is to load it with only 4 or 5 rounds and have someone watch you shoot. When you pull the trigger on the empty chamber (this should be a suprise to you) the gun should remain still. If you find yourself cheating have your friend load it with some spent and loaded brass and try again. 357's have a lot of bark so wearing hearing protection, maybe both plugs and muffs helps a lot. Try to separate blast from recoil in your mind and you will find it's not nearly as big as it sounds.

If that is not it, as others have said get a box of a major brand 38 special ammo and shoot slow off a bag or other rest in single action. Don't correct, just keep shooting at the bullseye. What you discribe is not even close to what a 686 will do.

Kind of what I was thinking. To miss the paper entirely at 50 ft with a 686 from a rest should not happen.

I've owned 4 of the 686s and all have been very accurate. My 686-4 is my most accurate 357 revolver of all those I have owned.

My 686 will shoot into 1.5" at 25 yards from a sandbag rest. This is with .38's loaded with 158 gr. RNFP over 4.9 gr. 231. Have this gun looked over by a gunsmith or S&W as there must be something wrong with it. My guess is crown, forcing cone, chamber throats, alignment. Or, some combination of those.

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H Richard
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