Convertible model 60, 38/9mm/38 super and 9x23

pred · #1 07-30-2009, 08:18 PM

I saw there was talk of this
New Bangers .38 Super 627

And I posted this model 60 several months back when I first made it,,, But didnt get the chance to try out the 38 super and the 9x23 at the range, So I figured it was about time.
So I dug out my Model 60-3 which was NIB a year ago, I was able to dig up a 940 (9mm) cylinder and send it out to be reamed out to 9x23, Which would allow shooting of 9mm/38 super and 9x23,,, In addition with a quick cylinder swap I can still shoot 38 special,
I lucked out that the 940 Cylinder fit without any smithing into the Model 60-3.
I personally feel that shooting 9mm is equal to shooting 38 special,
The 38 super has a tad more umph! And the 9x23 even more still, BUT I will say that none of them feels like 357 out of my 340sc.
Accuracy is about the same between all the rounds, 9mm being the least but not by much at all, Just seemed like I would get a flyer now and then, May have been the cheap reman 9mms I was shooting, BUT the 38 supers and 9x23 are equal to the 38 specials.
Just an interesting shooter which I shoot once in a while.

Moonclips in front of box from left to right
8mm/38 super/9x23
Cylinder to far right has 38 special (original cylinder)
Peter

snakeman32 · #2 07-30-2009, 08:42 PM

That is a pretty cool idea. How hard is it to swap the cylinder out?

snakeman

pred · #3 07-30-2009, 08:56 PM

Just 1 screw that retains the cylinder yolk, and that's about it.
Maybe 1 minute.
Peter

pawncop · #4 07-30-2009, 09:04 PM

Cool idea. What was it that got you thinking about this conversion?

Gutpile Charlie · #5 07-30-2009, 09:08 PM

I've got an M60 that looks just like it in my pocket right now. That is a sweet piece and a real nice conversion.

stiab · #6 07-30-2009, 09:30 PM

I bet you could have shot some 38 Super without the rework. Not all brands of ammo will fit, but Winchester and Magtech will chamber in most S&W 38 Specials and .357 mags made in the last 20 years or so. Remington, Federal, and other brands will not. Those two brands, including the Silvertips, will fit in my M66, M19, M28, newer M60 (but not my 1970 vinage M60), M64, Python, etc. I shot some out of the Model 28 last week, no moonclips requred because the 38 Super does have a rim.

I like the setup you have, but some folks may tell you the pressure is too great from some of those rounds.

WC145 · #7 07-30-2009, 10:07 PM

Pred-
Were you shooting 9x23 Winchester? I've tried several different 9mm loads in my converted 360J, including +P+, and a couple of .38 Super loads, all with good results. I'm picking up a few boxes of 9x23 Win 124gr JSP Saturday to try in my .38 Super 1911 and might try them in the 360 also. I'm just curious if that's what you were shooting so I can have an idea of what to expect.

Also, I just recently got a chronograph so as soon as time and weather allow I'm going to be clocking bunch of different ammo to see how they compare. I'll post the results.

pred · #8 07-30-2009, 10:38 PM

The 9x23s are Winchester. Well they feel a bit more stout than the 38 supers,,, But not unmanagable, I figure that 9mm is ok, 38 super bit more and the 9x23 even more but not up to 357 standards.
I know it's kind of silly to make this 60 to shoot so many calipers when I can get a J frame, Even a 357 model 60 and shoot 38s and 357s,,, But 9mm is still $8.97 at walmart and I can shoot a bit cheaper than 38 special,,, One day when I get a new job and start to reload, This may be a mute point... For now I shoot a 2" model 63 to imitate my J frame carry.

~ Seems like 38 supers wont fit in any of my other J frames~
~ What gave me the idea? This forum, And the fact I had a 940 and wanted to have a single action option~
Peter

HEADKNOCKER · #9 07-30-2009, 10:52 PM

Glad to see you got the "M960-3" up & running Peter..
I have a new unfired 940-1 cylinder assembly coming from a trade I made with another forum member that should be here next week, It's complete with all the parts waiting to be installed.. Found it in the classifieds Here on the forum too..
You didn't have to trim the center pin or ejector rod, file the ratchet or shim the cylinder?? Nothing!! I'm truly impressed..
Hope mine goes that Smooth!! Hopefully it will..
If everything turns out good for me I'm gonna leave this one as a 9mm because it's going into my Airweight 642ND & may also leave my 2nd 940 as a 9mm too..
You Had Dave Manson ream your cylinder Correct??
Just wanted to give Him a plug as He also did my 38 Super convertion & beveled the charge holes on my first 940.. He did a Great Ream Job for me. He makes many of the Reamers Brownells sells & is a great guy to deal with with quick turnaround & at a Great Price to boot..
Peter how much longer is the case of a 9x23 than the 38 Super?? That's a caliber I've never handled..
I note that Dave reamed my cylinder .054" deeper than the 38 Super rounds, I just measured this with my handy digi calipers
Makes me wonder?? Also my moon clips are .040" & most are .035".. These were what TK used to sell for the 9mm Ruger SP101s & 940s, They now only list .035"??
I believe they come from Ranch Products, I saw them at the last gunshow here in Louisville KY, should have asked them..
I also notice you didn't do the barrel swap, I remember you telling me you had a 2" & 3" 940 barrels..
Even with a frame wrench & the tools to trim the forcing cone & cut back the barrel I'd never attempt this with an Airweight as there prone to crack frames from barrel overtorqueing..
Congrats on the great multi caliber 960..
I sure hope my 942 goes as smooth..
Gary/Hk

WC145 · #10 07-30-2009, 11:12 PM

The 9x23 and .38 Super cases are almost exactly the same length. The big differencces are the "semi" rim on the .38 Super and the tapered case on the 9x23. Also, there's a big difference in pressures - 9mm, .38 Super, and .357 Mag are all around 35k PSI while the 9x23 Win is in the 45k PSI range. That's why I was curious about how Pred's M60 handled it.

HEADKNOCKER · #11 07-31-2009, 12:09 AM

Inquiring minds wanna know..
I see that the 9x23 almost mimics 357 magnum balisticly..
I've run several boxes of 38 Super +P through my 940 with no problems, The recoil was about the same as the 9mm +P..
I have also run 9mm +P+ but only a couple of cylinders full..
Great Thread pred

Also Here's Dave Mansons Website with contact info..
http://www.mansonreamers.com/
Gary/Hk

pred · #12 07-31-2009, 12:40 AM

The only J frame I have ever shot 357 out of is my 11.4oz 340SC, So I cant say what to tell you.
I do still have the 2" and 3" barrels,,, The 3"er may go on a NIB 649 in the future.
And I was originally worried about shooting a 9x23, But look at the 940 for the 356TSW round,,,, Now that has higher pressures than the 9x23. So I didnt worry anymore.
I also read that over time 9x23 were loaded differently, I dont know what ones I have,,,
Funny though, I just remembered the 9mms I was shooting were lead round bullets from Cabelas, (reman) something like 39.99 for 500 a couple of years back, And a couple keyholed, But I didnt have any other 9mms with me to test. The only other gun I shot them out of are an old pair of FB Radom P-35s from 1944, They didnt keyhole.
The 38 supers or the 9x23s didnt! Nor the 38 specials.
I will get out and try again with "real" 9mm ammo soon.
Peter
PS, Still want a 547 and will trade a mint nickel 6"27-2 for it!

HEADKNOCKER · #13 07-31-2009, 04:25 AM

I'll report back in when I get my 940-1 Cylinder with any Problems/Details Peter..
Thanks for the write up on the M60 convertion..
And I hear You on the M547.. "Mint Nickeled 6" M27-2"
I'm realy lucky to have my Pinned Barrel 4" 547..
Still looking for a 3" Round Butt M547 for a "Decent" Price..
I'm gonna have to pick up some 9x23 ammo if it can be had for a "Decent" Price which is doubtfull nowdays..
I'll have to look at the preasures of the .356TSW round used in the PC940..
Gary/Hk

41 fan · #14 07-31-2009, 06:27 PM

Winchester Silvertip 9X23 ammo makes 1425 fps from my Colt Govt. mod. I have a handload using 124 gr Rem JHP's that will do the same. Winchester Silvertip 38 Supers make 1225 fps. Dean

KyJim · #15 07-31-2009, 06:51 PM

Quote:

PS, Still want a 547 and will trade a mint nickel 6"27-2 for it!

Quote:

I'm realy lucky to have my Pinned Barrel 4" 547..
Still looking for a 3" Round Butt M547 for a "Decent" Price..

I got real lucky. I stopped by the local money pit yesterday and saw a 3 inch round butt 547. I knew it was an unusual gun but had not realized how unusual until I did some Internet research. I called back this morning and they put it back until I could get there this afternoon and put it in layaway today (I just recently wiped out my gun budget there). One of the other clerks mentioned it had been getting a lot of interest. One of the few times I never haggled on the price.

Oh, yeah. I'm not trading for the Model 27.

pred · #16 07-31-2009, 11:34 PM

It's a real nice Model 27!

I'll pay all shipping
Oh well, A guy's gotta try!
Peter

AKAOV1MAN · #17 08-01-2009, 03:14 AM

Great info! HK just e-mailed me lots of good info on his and Pred's guns. I am really into 9mm wheelguns with a brace of 940 2", a 940 3", 2 Ruger SP101s, and 2 more in 3 inch. Plus one each of the 547s (sorry Pred I already have a 6.5" 29-2 nickle), and a pair of Speed Sixes, blue and SS. The really good one is a Security Six by Cylinder & Slide, action job, accurized, adjustable sights on a 4". Too bad Smith didn't make a 66 or a 19 in 9MM.
But my projects roll on and soon I will have a 3" M60 DAO with a cylinder just like Preds, and a 2" M60 like HKs.
And most likely a divorce. Unfortunately my better half is a detective with a big city SVU and thus knows one gun from another, but I am sure that if I explain the reason why I need 2 guns with mulit caliber cylinders she will understand-she of one M36 for the last 28 years....yeah right.

WC145 · #18 08-01-2009, 08:30 AM

Out of curiosity I just tried the cylinder from my 637 in my 369 but it didn't work, so no convertible for me. Of course, I could always order another .38spl cyl from S&W but that would be redundant. The point of doing my conversion was that I didn't want another .38spl snubby, I wanted a 13oz 9mm snubby.

I know you've all seen it many times but here it is again because I like to show it off.

HEADKNOCKER · #19 08-03-2009, 10:31 PM

Over the weekend I fit a 940-1 cylinder to my 642 No Dash & Now have a convertable 642/942..
It wasn't a drop in fit for me either..
I had to cut down the center pin & ejector rod, which were from a magnum lenth J Frame, The center pin was titainium BTW.. Being the cylinder was new I had to file the ratchet to fit the hand in the revolver & now it's my 9mm "Little Friend"..
Range report due sometime soon..
I'm so happy I was able to trade into this cylinder & extra parts
Gary/Hk

942 with 38spl cylinder, UM Grips for the range..

pred · #20 08-03-2009, 10:43 PM

The spare 940 cylinder I have will also fit into my Model 37, Works ok, But single action is not perfect, It feels a little notchy locking the hammer back, And the trigger pull is about 1mm,,, So in my 14oz model 37 no dash would need a tad of work.
I bought two 940 cylinders and had them both reamed to 9x23 for future projects,
Now I am looking for a cheap K frame 32 cylinder to have bored and machined for 9x23 and moon clips to go into a 2" model 10. or model 12. or ? ? ? ? ?
Peter

S-WLover · #21 04-13-2013, 08:44 AM

I shoot 38 super in both of my S&W' model 60-14 and 686.
I have never had a problem with either and they extract very well even though the rim is smaller.
Accuracy is great and I have not had to change any cylinder to accomplish this.
I did find that Winchester is a tiny bit fat and does not want to go into the cylinder, so I shoot them in my 38 super 1911's.