I have a 642 and a 686 with internal locks that I got at a super price—otherwise I would have gotten those same models without the lock.

I want to disable those locks because like everyone on this forum, I’ve also heard the lock up horror stories. I’ve heard of two ways to do it and I would like some ideas on which way I should go.

1. Remove the flag completely

2. Leave the flag in place but file down the nub on the hammer side of the flag so it can't engage the hammer

Seems to me Option #1 is the more fool proof approach but would there be some side effects or unintended consequences that I'm overlooking?


Thanks for the help.

The easiest method would be to use a Dremel tool and file down the lug on the flag to that no matter what, it cannot lock.

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"I'm just a dog chasing cars."

It takes more effort to Dremel the stud on the flag than it does to simply pull the flag out, which I did on three of my S&W revolvers.

The remainder of the lockwork is intact, and in spite of my best efforts to shoot it loose, etc....the lock is still there. And the flag is unmolested, in a little baggie in the gun's case, in case I ever sell the firearm.

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matt

Is that all that is needed, take the flag out?? The piece that is right on top when the side plate is removed?

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Still Running Against the Wind

Do not molest that flag.

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NRA Lifetime Member

Remove the flag, it's simple. I've removed the locks from 3 different 642s, it's a piece of cake. It takes less than 10 minutes.

YouTube - S&W Internal Lock Removal

The inside is just like the 642.

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- The Federalist #46 -

Excellent. Thanks for the link. Very good video.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Anybody know who the artist in the background music was?

Thanks for the advice folks.

I just finished the project. I fully removed the flag from my 642 and test fired it...believe it or not, she works!

Thanks again for the sound guidance. I very much appreciate it.

I'll tackle the 686 tomorrow....

way to go dan, you now have a completely reliable and safe gun.
I watched the same video some time back and did the same thing to my M66-6 2-1/2" and thru the flag/locklug in the parts box.
I know carry my M66 every day with out worry.

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M 686-3

I would prefer to take ALL the IL parts out.

Then there is NO WAY you can have any problems.

If everything is out, then nothing can jam, but dirt/dust will find it's way under the cover.

The video doesn't show how to completely remove the parts.

Here are my notes:

FAQ's

handejector will get this up on a sticky soon.

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NRA Benefactor Member

500 Magnum,

Thanks for the link to the FAQ, lots of very helpful info there.
I have two 642's one with lock one without. I think it's time to attack the lock.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Just a quick question. When you remove the part doesn't it leave an open hole in the side ?

It does, but you aren't cool unless you want to remove the lock.

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NRA Lifetime Member

How have your two posts on this subject helped anyone??

Some folks are trying to learn about doing this lock removal and have posted a legitimate question.

I too would like to know about the "hole" I have read some that have actually installed a small screw and ground down the head. That seems a bit involved. I was thinking of perhaps some gray epoxy putty.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I just filed the "post" down on my 442. I wasn't willing to leave the hole open since I pocket carry a lot. I alway use a pocket holster but it would still be a lint magnet IMO.

I chose to remove the flag totally and leave the turning knob in place for 2 reasons:

1. If I ever sell this gun, I'll be able to reinstall a fully functional lock that is unmolsted/unfiled or give it to the new owner and he can do whatever. If I filed it down, a new flag would have to be purchased to return the gun to factory specs.

2. Since mine is a 642 i.e. hammerless, there is no gap in the frame as there would be with a hammered gun when the flag is removed and with the knob still in place, there's no increased danger of dirt getting into the internals.

Given what I've been able to read, the knob will remain in place with little chance of falling out.

That's my story....

That sounds like the best idea to me. I'll have to see when I get in there. So the whole knob that the key attaches to is not part of the lock assembly itself? Must be screwed in or force fit??

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Still Running Against the Wind

Removing the flag/lug plate does not loosen any of the works up and only leaves a very narrow slot open on the left side of the hammer.
once you have removed it, you can hardly tell its missing looks wise and its best to leave the key lock mechanism in the gun to plug the hole on the side.
once the plate is removed, the rest of the IL system becomes redundant and will not interfere with the rest of the internals.

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M 686-3

If you take out the flag, just remember to fold it with only the S&W logo showing.

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

When you remove the flag, you do still have the tiny hole which you can see in the smaller image on the top right.

I removed the lock on my Father's 642 a while ago, and had concerns about the little hole. He carries it daily, so I figured after a month or so I would check it out on the inside to see if there was dirt build up. I was pleased to see it looked just as clean as it did when I removed the lock.

He carries it in an Uncle Mikes IWB holster which he slightly modified. He removed the stitching and re sewed it allowing the gun the fit lower in the holster. He also left the bottom open so the barrel sticks out about 1/4 inch (which allows for the gun to ride lower, like I mentioned).

Because of this, the little hole is positioned generously inside the holster. This may or may not have a role in keeping the inside so clean.

I'll try to get a picture of his set up soon and post a pic if this thread is still active.

Attached Images

LOCK.jpg (50.1 KB, 157 views)

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- The Federalist #46 -

Ahhh! I get it now. Thanks for you attached picture if i am seeing this correctly, the little lug that the key goes over (and some people mentioned they ground down) comes out but the rest of the outer portion that surrounds it stays in the side plate. I can live with that tiny hole.

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Still Running Against the Wind

This is a great thread. I'm a little confused though. Is there a way to remove the flag, but leave the key hole in (not leaving a hole in the frame) and not have to modify/dremmel any parts? Thanks for the help. -Wade-

After seeing these threads I'm thinking about taking my locks out. My only concern is that I have 2 NIB Smiths less than a year old and I was wondering if this would void any warrantees.
It would probably be a good idea to make sure to keep the lock available for the above reason and also if Smith and Wesson decides to go back to the lockless weapons the new ones with locks may turn into collector items way down the road....just a thought.

Yes the key mechanism remains untouched and in place when you take the flag out.
you don't even have to go that far into tearing it down to get the flag out.

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M 686-3

Awsome. Thanks for the reply. -Wade-

I took the flag out on my 642 and 640. By leaving the other parts in you cannot tell from the outside that lock is "neutered" and I have some doubt that anybody is going take sideplate off to check. There is no reason to question it if it still looks like it has lock.

Take everything out. Every once in a while, how often deends on you weather conditions, pocket lint, rain, dust, sand, etc. spray some Hornaday Cleaner dry lube in the old key hole, flushing out the inside of the relvover.

Reload, and carry on.

Well, I finally got around to taking the flag out of my M-60. Really easy to do with the help from that excellent video.

So there is only one tiny hole in the frame back at the base of the hammer which I am not going to even worry about.

Before I go at several other models I just want to make sure that the whole "key hole part" stays in and will not fall out?? I tried the key and it just spins around now.

I would personally NEVER remove the lock from any gun that I planned on using as a carry piece or for home defense. Way too many lawyers out there that would use that as a pattern of a lax safety regimen in the use of a gun by removal of a "safety" device. Just my opinion. Swell for a target gun, but nothing else.

The lock is not "safety device" it is a exclusion device. Before the "lock" there were trigger locks, padlocks, wire cable with padlock so those would have to be installed on your carry piece.

This thread is about removing the internal lock, not the legal ramifications which have been beat to death.

Well dog gone! I certainly didn't mean to bunch up your panties like that!

My opinion stands.

I appreciate everybody's opinion here, and I think we could all agree that we'd have preferred the IL thing had never got initiated (I believe someone mentioned "shoved down our throats").
My question, being new here, as well as relatively new with revolvers, is how common is it that the IL actually interferes with the hammer action? Are there many instances (one being too many) of it being a performance issue? Or is it's removal more of an esthetics issue?
Thanks in advance for your views

No "bunching" has occurred You of course are free to do as you want.
The internal lock is is just that, a "lock" not a safety. S&W and others made the decision to put it in their revolvers for whatever reason rather than provide a cable or padlock.

Did not mean to come across offensive.

Sabashimon - There used to be a sticky with lots of IL failures and guns locking up during firing. They may not be as plentifully as some would like to believe, but one is too much if you are defending your life or someone else. I have some disabled and some not, depending on their intended use. I believe in some of the early locks it was related to the springs, but don't know for sure. In the end they are there for storage, but the legal beagles can make much adieu about anything.

Thanks for the insight ENH. I'm wondering if S&W has made improvements in the newer models that might mitigate those issues.
I guess I'll take another look at the video and give some serious thought to disabling the IL.
Thanks again

Sabashimon, I have a Model 60-14 LS that had an IL. The first outing to the range with my handloads (Full Power 357's) was great up until shot #47. #47 pushed the locking flag into place and I could not get the flag to drop/release. After manageing to get the firearm open and unloaded (about 30 minutes) I was able to get the IL to drop with the use of a borrowed key and a metal shim to keep the hammer from makeing contact with the frame mounted fireing pin. I will never buy another IL S&W as this type of performance is totally unacceptable in a defensive firearm. Don't get me wrong, gun safety is important, but MY safety is KING, and an IL gun is not as safe for the user as a non-IL gun of the same make/model when the firearm is needed in a defensive situation.

Class III

Thank you class III

+1 My sentiments exactly.
I had a malfunction of the IL which led to a FTF. Luckily it happened at the range so no harm done. I don't plan on chancing it on the street.

Here is my 442 38 spl that I carry in either my front jeans pocket or an ankle holster. I removed the lock arm "flag" on this one.
Notice the little hole where the pin was?

I don't have any worries about this lock any longer.

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NRA Benefactor Member