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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 08-23-2009, 03:27 PM
buckyjames1 buckyjames1 is offline
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No it is not an urban legend, It happened to me at the range. The debates from last post were all over the place. Here it goes:

1. History:
a)Model 620 2 piece barrel/IL/7 shot store bought BNIB
b)Mods: master tuning job, cylinders honed, bead blast.
deburred barrel. There was a sharp burr at begining of barrel
and no it was not cause by spinning and shutting of loose
cylinder. Factory also "retorqued" barrel. Guess they found
something I didnt ask for but this was included on invoice
although free of charge.
Retightened or fixed "Loose" rear adjustable sight leaf. I have heard of others reporting this.
I think this is a growing/common isue with new smiths. Please check your new ones and post if
they are loose. Maybe S/W will begin to address this issue.
(new thread please)
c) # of rds: less than 25 <------ .38spl non reloads
(dont remember load)

2. Debates:
a) Metallurgy problem?
b) 2 piece barrel design?
c) Quality control from factory?
d) Kharma? I try to spread some good in the world but am not perfect

3. Action taken by S/W:
Gave all reimbursment of custom smithing charges and shipping. Gave future label (free shipping) of next project. I negotiated a slight upgrade (at no cost to me) to a Model 686 plus. Yes it still has an IL but has a 1 piece barrel design. I wish my experience with the 620 was better. Pistol felt nice in hands, balanced well, and appearance was great. Not too heavy, not too lite.

4. Issue:
If a metallurgy problem, How many of the 620s were sold with this batch of barrels? Should they do a
recall? I was damn luckiy I was not seriously injured.






Last edited by buckyjames1; 09-30-2010 at 07:37 PM.
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Old 08-23-2009, 03:31 PM
Ahab Ahab is offline
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Metallurgical problem to be sure. Note the coarse granular appearance at the break.
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Old 08-23-2009, 03:35 PM
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How common is this? I routinely carry a 329, 325, 386 & 360 because they are light, and nothing but "beaters" to me and I don't want to beat up my pre-lock wonders.
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Old 08-23-2009, 03:43 PM
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Why does it look like Pot metal?
I have some steel that was stretched to breaking points, But never looked like that.
Peter
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Old 08-23-2009, 04:11 PM
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Just an observation, but could it be because they "retorqued" the barrel and put too much pressure on the front ring against the fixed outer barrel? You wonder if it may have stayed hidden longer if they had not "retorqued" it when they did? Almost looks like the metal crystalized in that area.
What a mess and sorry it happened John.
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Old 08-23-2009, 04:26 PM
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Thanks for sharing your experience, this is just further proof at least to me to avoid new S&W's as sad as this is to say. Shaving quality like machined barrels to save mfg costs, poor business IMO. S&W used to stand for quality American craftsmanship, not so much now...
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Old 08-23-2009, 04:42 PM
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That sure looks like cast metal, and not forged. I used to re-manufacture/machine diesel engine parts, and when cast metal broke, it looked like what your barrel looks like at the break. When a forged steel crankshaft broke (for example) the fractured metal was smooth, indicating steel and not cast parts. Just my candid opinion, but I wouldn't buy any of the junk S&W is cranking out these days. Besides, older S&Ws with REAL barrels (one-piece) and REAL forged parts (hammers & triggers, pre MIM) are usually cheaper to purchase (used of course) than the new garbage.
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Old 08-23-2009, 06:57 PM
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i think it looks like it does not because it's pot metal but because it underwent brittle fracture as opposed to ductile fracture. Not a metallurgist so don't ask me any more than that.
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Old 08-23-2009, 07:04 PM
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I'm going to guess that the end of that barrel is tempered to act like a spring. You tighten it until the barrel cylinder gap is right and then it is designed to hold everything in place under spring tension.

The problem I see is that is a tiny little flange that is supposed to keep everything together has a very sharp angle....and, it is the exact place it will come apart, as it did.
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Old 08-23-2009, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt 127 View Post
I'm going to guess that the end of that barrel is tempered to act like a spring. You tighten it until the barrel cylinder gap is right and then it is designed to hold everything in place under spring tension.

The problem I see is that is a tiny little flange that is supposed to keep everything together has a very sharp angle....and, it is the exact place it will come apart, as it did.
And if that isn't a stupid idea on S&W's part, I don't know what is!
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Old 08-24-2009, 01:20 AM
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Thanks for re-posting this, buckyjames. I pick up my new 620 tomorrow, so this post is extremely interesting, and a little concerning.
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Old 08-24-2009, 09:29 PM
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You can alway have a regular 686 barrel installed on it. I been kicking around a custom 619 with a 681 barrel and a tri cylinder.
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Old 08-24-2009, 09:36 PM
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It would be interesting to have a metallurgist look at that barrel and get a professional opinion. Maybe somebody at a school of engineering would venture a free opinion?
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Old 09-18-2009, 03:12 PM
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It is ashame though,
I kinda liked the feel and over all appearnace of the 620. Dump the 2 piece barrel, dump the lock. Bam...nice feeling and descent shooter is created...just my thoughts
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Old 09-19-2009, 11:21 PM
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well that sucks..I'm no fan of this either I have studied that picture for several minutes and several things I don't like BUT I have had problems from the older Smiths too and glad no one was hurt and it sounds like they took care of the problem as they have me a few times in the past.

Jason
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Old 09-20-2009, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahab View Post
Metallurgical problem to be sure. Note the coarse granular appearance at the break.
+100

A Scrap barrel, before and after!
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Old 09-20-2009, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckyjames1 View Post
4. Issue:
If a metallurgy problem, How many of the 620s were sold with this batch of barrels? Should they do a
recall?
Because recalls affect the bottom line. If you lost an eye, there would be a recall.
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Old 09-30-2010, 07:33 PM
buckyjames1 buckyjames1 is offline
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Anyone have good experiences with 620?
What is messed up is the rust along barrel threads, how where, when why...
I really wished my experience with 620 was better. I wanted to like that pistol but...guess it wasnt meant to be.
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Old 09-30-2010, 08:33 PM
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Sure does look like a cast part to me. Are they not supposed to be? I have quite a bit of experience with welding and machining and it sure looks like a cast part to me......wait....I already said that.
Peace,
gordon
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Old 10-01-2010, 10:52 PM
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I've have nothing but good to report about my 620. It is quite simply the most accurate handgun I've ever shot. I recently mounted a J Point reflex on it and after sighting it in managed to put 5 out of 7 rounds into a nearly perfect horzontal line 1.75 inches long at 35 yards from a sandbag rest. The 2 flyers were due to my jerking the trigger and called shots. The horzontal stringing was all me, I have trouble seeing the bullseye at this range and my release skills have room to improve. IMO in better hands my 620 is capable of grouping under 3/4 inch at 35 yards. BTW, 35 yards is as far as I can actually see the red bullsye on an 8 inch shoot-n-c at the indoor range I shoot at, so that distance isn't a typo.

Barrels have been failing on revolvers for a long time, it's not something new. Stuff happens, witness the recent opsting about the failure of one piece barrels on a recent run of model 67's and the prior episodes of the same failure on model 64's. There has also been a recent posting about a failure of the barrel on a model 686.

Personally, if mine were to fail I'd just have S&W install a new one. I purchase the 620 because I wanted the accuracy of a tensioned barrel and since Dan Wesson isn't building their revolvers anymore it was the next best option.

To be blunt, IMO those who hate these 2 piece barrels have missed the boat. Not only is the accuracy astounding, they can also be shot with the barrel shroud in contact with a sandbag without any loss in accuracy. Something that I cannot do with my 610 because resting the barrel really degrades the accuracy.
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Old 10-02-2010, 11:11 AM
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Sure looks like the entire barrel is a casting instead of a forging, no radius on that front flange, may give better accuracy but weak in design. I thought somebody on here was stating they have stopped with the 2 piece barrels? Was that on all models or just some?
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Old 10-02-2010, 07:39 PM
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If I am not mistaken some of the Night Guard series feature a 2 piece barrel, along with some performance center models such as the M&P R8.

I also think the reason for hte discontinuation is a combination of resistance by old guard S&W shooters in combination with manufacturing costs that exceeded the initial expectations of a cost savings. Basically, S&W found out that this system cost more than they expected and the revolver buying public didn't care enough about the increased accuracy of this system to adopt it in a fashion widespread enough to make economic sense.

IMO, that's a real shame. I fully expect that in another 10 or 15 years the 620 will come to be regarded as the most accurate revolver S&W has ever produced.
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38spl, 610, 681, 686, bullseye, dan wesson, lock, model 686, performance center, shroud

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