Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Ammunition-Gunsmithing > S&W-Smithing
o

Notices

S&W-Smithing Maintenance, Repair, and Enhancement of Smith & Wesson and Other Firearms.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-14-2010, 09:27 PM
a-few-too-many a-few-too-many is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default "Nothing they can do for .22s"

This evening I called up Smith and Wesson in the hopes I could get an action job done on my 617. I also explained that some time ago I sent this revolver back for warranty work (barrel replacement) and was given back a "repaired" piece with two light groves going full circle around the cylinder face along with some stray scraches I could catch my finger nail on. I also told him a I had a 1/4"x1/8" file scratch on the bottom of the top strap by the forcing cone.

The person on the other end sounded rather disinterested and said there's nothing the performance center can do for my .22 and said nothing about my scratches. It was my hope I could have had my trigger done and have them address the scratches and file marks on my gun. I will admit that it has been a few years since I had the warranty work done, but I still have the repair slip from Smith and Wesson when I got it back. I should have said something immediately about the scratches but I kept my mouth shut because I needed it for 300 league and didn't want to be a pain.

Is there really nothing that they can do for the 617s action and am wrong to bring up the damages after all this time?

You can see the cylinder at http://www.250r.us/misc/b.jpg
Attached Images
File Type: jpg a.jpg (157.9 KB, 216 views)

Last edited by a-few-too-many; 06-14-2010 at 10:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-14-2010, 10:57 PM
SPDGG SPDGG is offline
Member
"Nothing they can do for .22s" "Nothing they can do for .22s" "Nothing they can do for .22s" "Nothing they can do for .22s" "Nothing they can do for .22s"  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Default

IMO/From what I hear;read:

The S&W 617 are hit or miss with action/trigger jobs. I should say 100% ignition with a wide range of rimfire ammo. Cant really change out to reduced power springs without having issues with ignition. Same goes with going extreme with the hammer & bobbing it down. Most will polish/slick up the internals, "NOT File or change angles", & call it good.

This is my opinion on the top strap: If you cant live with the current cosmetic state. Then I would clean it up with some fine emery pad/paper and polish it up after.

Have a great one

Last edited by SPDGG; 06-14-2010 at 11:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-14-2010, 11:19 PM
cp1969's Avatar
cp1969 cp1969 is offline
Member
"Nothing they can do for .22s" "Nothing they can do for .22s" "Nothing they can do for .22s" "Nothing they can do for .22s" "Nothing they can do for .22s"  
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,366
Likes: 279
Liked 63 Times in 42 Posts
Default

If there's nothing S&W can do with the action, surely there are independent gunsmiths who can.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-14-2010, 11:26 PM
SW357Addict SW357Addict is offline
Member
"Nothing they can do for .22s" "Nothing they can do for .22s" "Nothing they can do for .22s" "Nothing they can do for .22s"  
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lousiana
Posts: 453
Likes: 1
Liked 47 Times in 16 Posts
Default

Any S&W revolver can have an action job to smooth out the double and single action trigger pull without sacrificing reliable ignition of the round, even a .22LR 617. You would have to specify to S&W what you wanted done. Personally, I think a good action job is one that keeps the same weight trigger pull in double action and single action as it was from the factory (maybe slightly less if exclusively a target gun). Smoothness and consistency through the entire stroke of the trigger and hammer rather than lightening of the trigger is a good action job.

I have a 617 that I did a moderate action job on myself. It was smooth and consistent to begin with but even with the factory spring and the mainspring screw tightened all the way, it was not 100% reliable on ignition. I installed a Wolf Power rib standard power mainspring and smoothed the rebound slide with some progressively finer sandpaper all the way up to 2000 grit. I replaced the mainspring screw with a stainless allen head screw that allows more tension to be put on the mainspring. My 617 has a heavier trigger pull than as it came from the factory, but is smoother and in the last several thousand rounds I have put through it, I have had maybe 2 or 3 failures to ignite.

As for the scratches on your gun, you would have had more luck if you had complained at the time the work was done.
__________________
"I'm just a dog chasing cars."
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-14-2010, 11:53 PM
tomcatt51 tomcatt51 is offline
Member
"Nothing they can do for .22s" "Nothing they can do for .22s" "Nothing they can do for .22s" "Nothing they can do for .22s" "Nothing they can do for .22s"  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: never never land, USA
Posts: 3,013
Likes: 120
Liked 824 Times in 530 Posts
Default

Looks like they didn't use a safe edge file when they "adjusted" the barrel/cylinder gap. Should be able to make the marks "disappear" with some carefull filing and polishing. The cylinder face I'd run a stone across to remove any high spots and call it good.

X17s can have their actions lightened, but not as much as the centerfrires. DO NOT bob or lighten the hammer on a X17. You can run a Wolff reduced power mainspring if you replace the strain screw with a socket set screw to adjust the tension. A rebound spring (Wolff) between 11 and 13 lbs depending. With little work (pretty much just smoothing the rebound slide) you can have a 9ish lb DA pull that will fire bulk ammo nicely.

Last edited by tomcatt51; 06-15-2010 at 11:57 AM. Reason: sp
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-15-2010, 12:11 AM
649 Bodyguard's Avatar
649 Bodyguard 649 Bodyguard is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 299
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Default

( Looks like they didn't use a safe edge file when they "adjusted" the barrel/cylinder gap. Should be able to make the marks "disappear" with some carefull filing and polishing. The cylinder face I'd run a stone across to remove any high spots and call it good )

( I going to have to agree with this last statement. See what you can do yourself to get rid of them. Goodluck
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-15-2010, 12:33 AM
a-few-too-many a-few-too-many is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Thanks for all the replies. I think I'll send off an e-mail and see what response I can get. I don't mind the trigger pull until I get near the breaking point while shooting double action. The thing just gets so stiff. It's no where near as consistent as my 686. I'd be happy with just smoothing things up and polishing out my scratches. I'll let you know what I hear from them.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-15-2010, 11:55 AM
tomcatt51 tomcatt51 is offline
Member
"Nothing they can do for .22s" "Nothing they can do for .22s" "Nothing they can do for .22s" "Nothing they can do for .22s" "Nothing they can do for .22s"  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: never never land, USA
Posts: 3,013
Likes: 120
Liked 824 Times in 530 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by a-few-too-many View Post
I don't mind the trigger pull until I get near the breaking point while shooting double action. The thing just gets so stiff.
The one simple thing you could do with the trigger pull would be to install a 13 or 14 lb (Wolff) rebound spring with the stock mainspring and strain screw. That will give you a noticeable improvement by just removing the sideplate and replacing the spring.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-15-2010, 07:28 PM
scooter123 scooter123 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 6,919
Likes: 179
Liked 4,294 Times in 2,106 Posts
Default

I have a 617 no dash that I've done a bit of tuning on. It's had a noticable improvement in the DA trigger and a really noticable change in the SA trigger pull. Actually too much change in the SA pull and I'll fix that when I feel like going back into the lockwork.

What I did was stone the rebound slide, did a bit of light smoothing of the frame where the rebound slide runs with 600 grit wet sandpaper, and install a Wolff 12 lbs. rebound spring. I also put a small dab of RIG grease on the rebound slide to provide a bit more lubrication than a light oil. Since I won't be using this gun in cold weather, using grease isn't a problem, however I wouldn't recomend doing this in any revolver that will be used below about 45 degrees. DA trigger pull is about 8 lbs. and quite smooth. However, that 12 lbs. rebound spring dropped the SA pull to about 1 3/4 lbs, which is light enough that I've become VERY careful to not engage the trigger with my finger until it's sighted on target. At some point I'll install a 14 lbs. rebound spring that will take the SA pull to just a bit over 3 lbs. That will increase the DA pull to about 9 lbs. but it's a tradeoff I can live with, as it is now the SA trigger is just too light to use the gun to train a new shooter.

As for ignition, due to concerns with that I've left the standard mainspring in place and have the strain screw run down tight. My experience with the 617 is that I only start to get misfires when the cylinder gets crudded up by carbon fouling and it becomes difficult to seat the rounds in the chambers. When the cylinder is clean enough that the rounds drop in freely, I've never had one single misfire. I believe that most of the misfires with the 22 are really caused by rounds that are standing off just a bit from the rim in the cylinder, not problems with the ammo or the gun. It's why I now take a brush and boresnake to the range with me, by running a dry brush through the chamber every 50 rounds, I can keep it clean enough that it doesn't get tight during loading.

Bottomline, it's not any more difficult to do an action tuning on the 617 than it is for any other K frame. All it takes is paying attention to details and not trying to lighten the DA trigger too much. It's also not the least bit difficult to do, however for any first timer I would caution that it's much easier to remove material than it is to put it back, so take it slow in stages and stop as soon as you start to see enough improvement. I'll also tell you that getting the DA trigger pull much below 8 lbs. with the 617 just isn't going to happen, if you try you'll just end up with misfires when shooting double action. However a DA trigger that is smooth as butter in the 8 to 9 lbs. range is very doable and reliable.

You'll also need the Kuhnhausen shop manual as a guide for action tuning and a rebound spring tool, both of which are available from Brownells. At the same time you order those, you should also order some lighter rebound springs. For rebound springs, I would suggest the 12 lbs., 13 lbs., and 14 lbs. rebound springs so that you can experiment and see which one you like best.

BTW, the 12 lbs. spring will require that you take the time to smooth any roughness on the frame where the rebound slide runs, otherwise you may experience a failure of the trigger to reset. When that happens it will jam the lockwork up solid until you remember to push the trigger forward. You may also have to work the hammer back and forth a bit to get the rebound slide to free up. BTW, been there done that, only it was with my 610 which now carries a 14 lbs. rebound spring.

If you don't want a sub 2 lbs SA trigger, I would suggest going straight to the 14 lbs. rebound spring, it's functioned flawlessly in all of my revolvers and a 3 lbs. SA trigger is still pretty easy to shoot with. With that spring the DA pull will run about 8.5 to 9 lbs. and if the action is running smooth, it's easy to shoot well with.

BTW, one final tip, keep your fired cases. They can be used as snap caps provided that you put an undimpled area of the rim at the point the firing pin contacts. Unloading and rotating the fired cases really doesn't work well as snap caps but it will allow you do do a funtion test without any risk of harm to the gun. Just remember to only hit the undimpled area of the rim, repeat strikes on a dimpled case permits the hammer to hit the frame and could eventually lead to a broken hammer spur or other damage. Once you hear the difference between hitting a dimpled and undimpled area on the case, you'll understand what I'm talking about.

PS, concerning the file mark on your frame, you can clean that up with a bit of wet sanding using 600 grit sandpaper, however I don't think it's worth bothering with on a shooter. As for the marks on the face of your cylinder, whithout knowing what your End Shake and Barrel/Cylinder gap measurements are, I'm not going to give any advice. Any material removed from the face of the cylinder to smooth out those marks will increase the B/C gap. In your case, it may be wiser to just let a layer of carbon build up on the face of the cylinder to hide the marks.

Last edited by scooter123; 06-15-2010 at 07:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-16-2010, 02:54 PM
a-few-too-many a-few-too-many is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Thanks for all the info Scooter! I did receive a reply this morning...

"Hi, unfortunately we don’t do action work on guns that are chambered in .22lr. The reason is because the ammunition is inconsistent and lightening the trigger will not assure ignition. As for the cosmetic issue the pictures you show appear to be normal wear."

I figured they would have humored me and tried to see what they could do about the damages or tell me I waited too long. I did also sent a picture in of some cylinder notch peening I was having. I will accept the peening as being normal wear, but not the smith who slipped with his file and then cycled the cylinder with the b/c gap too tight. I would be willing to offset some of the cost if need be since I didn't get on things back when. Usually Smith and Wesson is outstanding about taking care of things for me.

Last edited by a-few-too-many; 06-16-2010 at 07:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
22lr, 610, 617, 686, brownells, fouling, k frame, performance center, rimfire, sideplate, smith and wesson

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thinking of ordering a 686P 4" 7 round .357 .... "Help"!! Need some reviews on them... Is the 6" better or is the 4" equally good? .460V & XVR Magnum Man S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 37 07-06-2017 06:26 PM
For All You "Squids", "Swabbies", and "Anchor-Clankers" semperfi71 The Lounge 37 02-07-2016 03:06 PM
If you liked "Red Dawn" and "Jericho" - "Falling Skies" starts Sunday GatorFarmer The Lounge 15 08-14-2012 11:58 PM
"SPF" 5906 Square TG, W/ 2 ext. mags "Shipped" "SPF" Rone GUNS - For Sale or Trade 7 12-15-2010 12:40 PM
Use caution when dealing with "roniva123", a.k.a. "PB Firearms", a.k.a. "Snubbies" allglock Feedback 17 08-07-2009 04:31 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:37 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)