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  #1  
Old 08-23-2010, 06:09 PM
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Default When a round takes a nose dive when loading in an Auto is it a mag or slide issue?

When a round takes a nose dive when loading in an Autoloader is it mag or slide issue?
There is a similar post in the Autoloader part of the forum regarding Gold Dots and the failure to chamber in the posters handguns.

I am curious if the problem is a magazine caused issue or if it involves the slide and extractor? I've seen Autoloaders of different makes where the round dips down as the slide engages the base of the cartridge and the bullet strikes the front of the magazine causing a jam or strikes the feed ramp pointed down and jams. On one handgun this problem happened with any type of ammo, ball or hollowpoint, bullet weight did not matter, and it was recommended that it be used as a fish weight.

Any ideas, theories, or facts would be welcome.
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  #2  
Old 08-23-2010, 08:12 PM
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It's almost always a magazine/ammo problem.
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Old 08-23-2010, 11:54 PM
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Thanks for the reply.
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Old 08-24-2010, 12:10 AM
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While the magazine does cause the vast majority of feed issues, the condition you refer to can be aggravated/caused by low slide velocity. Low slide velocity can be due to weak recoil springs, lack of lubrication, low power loads (slide doesn't get a running start at the next round) and/or a weak grip that robs the recoiling slide of velocity/travel.

Since the extractor hasn't engaged the round at that point, it doesn't affect the issue.
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Old 08-24-2010, 12:40 AM
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Yeah, I had this problem in an EAA Witness and spent a lot of time playing with magazines and round presentation angles. A complete stip down of the firearm revealed there was a burr on the extractor that was making the rounds get hung up and causing the nose diving.
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Old 08-24-2010, 01:07 PM
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Could be the feedramp, too. I bought my girlfriend a Sig P6 and it is one of the older ones before the barrel feed ramp was changed to feed hollowpoints. This particular gun would not feed Gold Dots, and I tried with 115gr and 124gr. I would never let her carry it with 115gr, but I wanted to function check it anyway.

A quick trip to Todd at Customized Creationz for his feed ramp cut and polish fixed the problem. It feeds 124gr Gold Dots like butter now.
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Old 08-24-2010, 03:31 PM
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In no specific order, nosedive jams can be caused by:

1. Shooter error (limp wrist)
2. Dirty or unlubed gun
3. Magazine issues (misshapen feed lips or weak mag spring, or even a too strong mag spring)
4. Weak recoil spring
5. Underpowered ammo
6. Feed ramp/bullet nose shape incompatibility
7. Too strong recoil spring

If it makes it up as far as the extractor, it isn't really a nosedive jam.
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Old 08-25-2010, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 38-44HD45 View Post
In no specific order, nosedive jams can be caused by:

1. Shooter error (limp wrist)
2. Dirty or unlubed gun
3. Magazine issues (misshapen feed lips or weak mag spring, or even a too strong mag spring)
4. Weak recoil spring
5. Underpowered ammo
6. Feed ramp/bullet nose shape incompatibility
7. Too strong recoil spring

If it makes it up as far as the extractor, it isn't really a nosedive jam.
On the above list I understand #'s 1,2, & 5 are shooter related in that the shooter can do the corrections himself easily. In regards to the other's on the list such as the recoil spring and the magazine issues how does one diagnose these problems. What do you look for?

Thanks to all for the responses.
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Old 08-25-2010, 08:25 PM
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Buy and new recoil spring and magazine from reputable manufacturers. Wolff or factory for the first, factory (or Metalform for 1911s) for the magazine. Good (the generic stuff they all make may not be the best first choice ) ammunition from reputable manufacturers for the ammo: CCI, Cor-Bon, Hornaday, Remington, Speer, Wincester.

If you're still having problems, have a good instuctor observe you shooting. Not all shooters can self diagnose/correct issues with their fundamentals. I can recall a married couple who both failed to have a firm enough grip on their shared weapon. Once that was corrected, all their "weapons issues" disappeared.

Issues with particular ammo types may require consultation with a skilled gunsmith for your particular firearm.

Last edited by WR Moore; 08-25-2010 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 09-05-2010, 12:30 PM
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In my case,the Gold Dots would not feed in a new SW1911 Sub compact.It is at the factory now..See how it does when I get it back ..
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Old 09-05-2010, 02:11 PM
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The OP did not list a particular gun model and any gun may have issues particular to the brand. I notice most nose dive problems occur on the first round, at least in my guns. In a 1911 9MM Colt a Kimber magazine provides a higher angle than my Springfield magazines. Much easier to use the Kimber magazine with hollow points. My RIA .45 will feed from a locked open slide better than when the slide is racked.
In my Kahr PM9 the slide has to be locked back and released to feed hollow points. If you try to rack the slide it will not feed. Instant nose dive.
The good thing about the Smith & Wesson autos is they never seem to have the problems of the Colts due to the intregal feed ramps.
If a magazine won't feed diassemble and clean first. Check the feed ramp for burrs or scratches and if all else fails try another magazine.
Just my .02

Bruce
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Old 09-06-2010, 04:55 PM
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The follower spring is weak on the front side of the magazine. Take the magazine apart, then stretch the spring and reassemble.

To test your/any magazine follower, place 2 cartridges in the magazine. Then lightly press down on the top cartridge and let go. Watch if it snaps back smartly. If it's slow or sticking you found your problem.
There is always more spring pressure at the front of the magazine. This will prevent the round plowing into the feed ramps.
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Old 09-07-2010, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4330Inroute View Post
On the above list I understand #'s 1,2, & 5 are shooter related in that the shooter can do the corrections himself easily. In regards to the other's on the list such as the recoil spring and the magazine issues how does one diagnose these problems. What do you look for?

Thanks to all for the responses.
I'm sorry that I did not see this sooner, although I think Mr. Moore pretty much already addressed it. Without training and/or lots of years of trial and error, the other problems tend to be the province of the qualified gunsmith. 500Nut mentioned a possible problem I'd overlooked, and a solution. I would point out, though, that stretching or reshaping springs is only a temporary solution. If springs have collapsed or taken too much set, replacement is the only long-term solution.
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Old 09-08-2010, 07:28 PM
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And, in point of fact, I recently got around to correcting this same issue with one specific BHP magazine by installing a new Wolff +5% magazine spring. Get them in the 3 packs, you'll save money and they'll never be cheaper.
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Old 09-08-2010, 07:58 PM
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Thank you for your responses. The stretching the magazine spring and eventual replacement makes a lot of sense. With the price of magazines these days any little bit helps.
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Old 09-13-2010, 09:00 PM
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Received my 1911 from the factory today...seems to feed the Gold Dots just fine ..Guess their magic worked.They also seemed to cure my failure to fire problem which was good.
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