side to side play on cylinders

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Collin642

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I've Been professionally gunsmithing for 15 years. I am very knowledgable on revolvers. I can not find nor does S&w have a spec. Does anyone know what the side to side tolerences on cylinder play is? (the play the cylinder stop has in the cylinder notch.)
 
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I have never seen the bolt stop side-play specification either.

If I had to guess, it is probably 0.004" - 0.006", or the depth of the rifling groove, because that is how much play a bore range rod has to enter the chamber throat.
 
Haven't seen any thing myself, When in rest is about what John said. But when cocked it should be almost .001-.002 the most. Haven't my self ran across one that was real loose that wasn't junk anyway and that has been very few.
 
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The "specification" is that as long as the gun is accurate and isn't spitting bullet metal out the barrel/cylinder gap, it's good to go.

Since the hand also plays a part in limiting cylinder rotational movement, how much movement is present when the action is at rest really has no meaning.
 
Collin642 said:
I've Been professionally gunsmithing for 15 years. I am very knowledgable on revolvers. I can not find nor does S&w have a spec. Does anyone know what the side to side tolerences on cylinder play is? (the play the cylinder stop has in the cylinder notch.)
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If you mean rotational play, there is no spec. It is not only caused by the stop play in it's frame window, the stop also has play within the cylinder notches themselves. There is also play in the fit between the hand and it's frame window edge as well as the extractor ratchets. All those plays can make the cylinder wobble a lot in "lockup", I have seen some that must have been around .030". They still shot fine, that's why there is a forcing cone.
 
Bullseye Smith said:
Haven't seen any thing myself, When in rest is about what John said. But when cocked it should be almost .001-.002 then most. Haven't my self ran across one that was real loose that wasn't junk anyway and that has been very few.
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If the action is tight, you will have zero play in lockup which is hammer cocked then pull the trigger fully back and hold it there. But that's an ideal fit (only see that on the ones I do by hand). I don't see that on new guns anymore, a lot of them will have lockup play on some cylinder positions. It isn't a big deal, all guns wear with use and develop some wobble over time. I think it has to get pretty bad before it hurts accuracy much.
 
On a similiar note, what about wear to the ejector rod locking bolt? I have a 28-2 in which the locking bolt moves quite a bit more side to side than my tighter Smiths, it allows the whole crane and cylinder assembly to "flex" out in lockup. Is the ejector rod locking latch also a common point of wear that affects lockup and sideplay?

BTW, this is my loosest S&W, it was shot a LOT and I got it for a decent price, I have a 2x Leupold on it and it still holds less then 1" at 25 yards with .38's.
 
stantheman86 said:
On a similiar note, what about wear to the ejector rod locking bolt? I have a 28-2 in which the locking bolt moves quite a bit more side to side than my tighter Smiths, it allows the whole crane and cylinder assembly to "flex" out in lockup. Is the ejector rod locking latch also a common point of wear that affects lockup and sideplay?

BTW, this is my loosest S&W, it was shot a LOT and I got it for a decent price, I have a 2x Leupold on it and it still holds less then 1" at 25 yards with .38's.
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I have seen similar wear to the hole in the breech plate that the rod pin snaps into and it does let it wobble a bit.
 
I do a bit of Smithing myself and I have never been able to get a straight answer out of the Factory either. Their answer to me is "if it locks up tight just before the hammer falls everything is as it should be". I suppose to some extent that their answer is acceptable, although I have seen cylinders move side to side in what I personally would deem to be excessive. I have even seen cylinders lock up tight on two or three charge holes and be loose on the rest, but in that specific case the bolt can not be changed out for a slightly larger one because then it would not function on those tight notches. I would suspect that the notches were not cut to the same spec's. In that case I would send the revolver back to the Factory for a new cylinder.

chief38
 
chief38 said:
I do a bit of Smithing myself and I have never been able to get a straight answer out of the Factory either. Their answer to me is "if it locks up tight just before the hammer falls everything is as it should be". I suppose to some extent that their answer is acceptable, although I have seen cylinders move side to side in what I personally would deem to be excessive. I have even seen cylinders lock up tight on two or three charge holes and be loose on the rest, but in that specific case the bolt can not be changed out for a slightly larger one because then it would not function on those tight notches.
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I see that on new guns a lot now. Getting the carry up to match on all positions is called "balancing" and it requires fitting each ratchet individually so they all match the hand properly... hence the reason I suspect it is no longer done properly in many cases.
 
I have S&W's, both new and old, that carry up perfectly on 3 or 4 chambers in slow SA cocking, one will just lock up as the hammer locks back, and then one chamber will stop short of lockup and leave the bolt unengaged with the stop notch in slow SA, in other words it only works well in DA or brisk SA cocking.
 
Like the Factory says, I suppose if the bullet is in perfect alignment with the forcing cone at the time of ignition, that is all that really matters.

As far as the cylinder not being in perfect alignment when the hammer falls - when cocked VERY SLOWLY, that is generally not an issue because when the revolver is purposely fired, inertia will carry the cylinder up to lock-up. In single action it should not be an issue what-so-ever. By the way, this situation is quite common on Colt Revolvers. If it is really loose or out of time, a trip to the Factory is in order.

regards,
chief38
 
Keep in mind that the forcing cone angle on Smiths is larger than it was on the pre-III series Colts. The Colt action locked up tighter and could use the lesser angle for improved accuracy. The Smith lockwork has a little slop designed into it, and with the larger forcing cone, does not suffer a practical accuracy loss because of it. Small timing errors affect the Smith action less than in the early Colt action. You pick your poison.

The main thing is how well does the barrel lines up with each chamber with the trigger in its rearmost position. If a range rod confirms alignment, it shouldn't make a difference with respect to the amount of cylinder wobble, assuming that it's not extreme.

Buck
 
<The main thing is how well does the barrel lines up with each chamber with the trigger in its rearmost position. If a range rod confirms alignment, it shouldn't make a difference with respect to the amount of cylinder wobble, assuming that it's not extreme.>

I agree .......up to a point. If the cylinder is "floating" ..........not locked up solidly when the trigger is all the way back, you are depending on the forcing cone to sort out all issues. See my recent post regarding the installation of an oversized cylinder stop. Revolvers that lock the cylinder up solidly shoot more accurately. You will never see sloppy cylinders in revolver competition matches.
 
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