MIM K-frame DAO hammers? random ?'s...

stantheman86 · #1 11-11-2010, 11:17 PM

Are these available, or were they ever made? I would like a spurless DAO hammer for my 10-14.

On a related note, I have a 10-14 that times perfectly in DA but in SA has one chamber that won't carry up fully in very slow SA cocking. But if I pull the trigger very slowly, each chamber locks up right before the hammer drops.........any ideas? I have noticed many of my S&W's lock up earlier in DA than SA.

rodell · #2 11-12-2010, 12:52 AM

Spurless DAO hammers were available by special order, and many a gunsmith made them by bobbing the hammer and filing the single action notch. Very easy to do.

Police department revolvers were sometimes neutered in this way.

srgvaz · #3 11-12-2010, 12:58 AM

The chambers should have either empty cases or live rounds for true lock-up. Is your C-U issue on an empty gun? I have a similar issue with my range/truck gun but it doesn't bother me. If it ever gets to where I feel it's unsafe it will then be sent to S&W for a new extractor (ratchets). As for the hammer it's easy to just buy one and do the job yourself, or put a post in the WTB/WTT section.

bountyhunter · #4 11-12-2010, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stantheman86

Are these available, or were they ever made? I would like a spurless DAO hammer for my 10-14.

On a related note, I have a 10-14 that times perfectly in DA but in SA has one chamber that won't carry up fully in very slow SA cocking. But if I pull the trigger very slowly, each chamber locks up right before the hammer drops.........any ideas? I have noticed many of my S&W's lock up earlier in DA than SA.

I notice the same thing: DA carry up is always a shade earlier (better) than an SA cocking pull. I would guess probably half the old SW's in service would fail a very slow SA cocking motion carry up on one or more tubes but still work fine under a normal cocking motion because inertia carries it up.

Even if a gun carries up a bit short (cylinder not locked) and the hammer fires it, you are probably OK. The bullet will strike the forcing cone a shade off center as it leaves the cylinder which will snap the cylinder into lock. If the cylinder is way short and fires, you could have a problem shaving lead.

stantheman86 · #5 11-12-2010, 01:23 AM

I put spent cases in all 6 chambers and in very slow SA 2 of the chambers don't fully carry up, and one barely just locks up. Even in moderately slow SA cocking one chamber stops just short, and if I just touch the cylinder it clicks in.

In DA pull as slow as I can pull the trigger, all 6 chambers lock up before the hammer drops with only one that just clicks in before the hammer drops. In "normal" DA pull, no problem at all. People don't shoot DA like that, creeping the trigger back so the problem isn't really a "problem". I had thought of sending it back to S&W but they would probably just send it back saying I was crazy and the gun is fine. It seems the S&W tech who assembled the gun took a hair too much off 2 of the ratchet legs. Probably fairly common, I have a 28-2 from the 60's that is in pretty much new condition that has "late" carryup in all 6 chambers in very slow SA cocking.

I'm not worried about it, the 10-14 is 100% functional in DA and probably will be forever.......a guy here on this forum said he had an old M&P with "sluggish" carryup in slow SA that worked fine in "normal" use, that he has been shooting for over 40 years.

I can't seem to locate a MIM spurless hammer, it seems like S&W never made them this way. I am hesitant to convert it to DAO because I had heard once you file on a MIM part it takes the hard outer layer off and the exposed part of the metal is then "soft".

I was going to file off the SA notch and use this as a carry gun, leaving the spur on for retention in my thumb snap DeSantis holster. The lack of SA cocking ability would eliminate the chance of the hammer catching on something and cocking the gun, since the hammer block would keep the gun from going off. If I despurred the hammer it would probably look like ****, since it would take off the fake case hardening on there and leave a bare spot on the metal.

bountyhunter · #6 11-12-2010, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stantheman86

If I despurred the hammer it would probably look like ****, since it would take off the fake case hardening on there and leave a bare spot on the metal.

On the couple of guns I buffed up to look pretty, I polished off that mottley blue grey garbage anyway. They can be buffed up pretty nice.

stantheman86 · #7 11-14-2010, 02:21 AM

I'm thinking of just filing off the SA notch and making it a DAO. I will leave the spur for reliability and retention, plus I'm too lazy to grind it off

I can't for the life of me, find a MIM spurless hammer......

crsides · #8 11-17-2010, 12:25 AM

If you leave a hammer spur on a DAO gun, SOMEBODY SOMEDAY is going to pull the hammer back aka single action and let drop on a live round. Not sure what the hammer block & other internals are doing at this time, but I would definately take that hammer spur off.

You can take it off with a hack saw and smooth out the cut with a dremel tool using the sandpaper attachment. If you do get the side plate off, unscrew the mainspring screw, and pull back on the trigger part way until the hammer lifts out. Installation is in reverse order. nothing to it.

Charlie

Bullseye Smith · #9 11-17-2010, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stantheman86

Are these available, or were they ever made? I would like a spurless DAO hammer for my 10-14.

On a related note, I have a 10-14 that times perfectly in DA but in SA has one chamber that won't carry up fully in very slow SA cocking. But if I pull the trigger very slowly, each chamber locks up right before the hammer drops.........any ideas? I have noticed many of my S&W's lock up earlier in DA than SA.

There is a guy looking for a standard hammer in the 1980 -up section. He want it for his 64 bobb hammer gun, if his is the right model you can make a trade.

38-44HD45 · #10 11-17-2010, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stantheman86

I'm thinking of just filing off the SA notch and making it a DAO. I will leave the spur for reliability and retention, plus I'm too lazy to grind it off

I can't for the life of me, find a MIM spurless hammer......

I do not believe that there have ever been any MIM DAO hammers made. That would be why you can't find one. It has gotten pretty hard to find the old forged ones, too.

Reliability? How? The spur does nothing for reliability. If you are thinking that the extra mass makes it more reliable, that is a myth. It will actually travel slightly faster and whack primers a tiny bit harder with the lighter, bobbed hammer.

I use a Dremel with a coarse cutting disc to slice off hammer spurs, then rough-shape with abrasive drums. I use progressively finer grades of emery cloth to finish and polish by hand, and then I typically use a felt bob with rouge on a Dremel to put on a high polish. A complete bob-job rarely takes me over an hour and a half, including disassembly and reassembly.

And I would never consider leaving a spur on a hammer and making it DAO. That amounts to setting a trap in which someone will eventually get caught.

stantheman86 · #11 11-23-2010, 12:42 AM

I have seen plenty of ex-LEO revolvers converted to DAO with the hammer spur left on. Mainly to allow the thumb snap of the holster to retain the revolver, as not many earlier duty holsters worked well with spurless revolvers, Safariland is the only one I can think of. Not that it is "right" but it seems when a dept. mandated DAO the armorers just popped the hammers out and filed the SA sear off. I have seen 581's, 586's, 10's and 64's with DAO spurred hammers. Picked a 64-3 up at a gun show, tried to cock it to do my "push off" check thinking it was a standard DA/SA and the hammer would not cock. This was years ago before I knew better and I just assumed the gun was "broken".

The gun will not fire if the hammer is pulled back and dropped, unless the trigger is also pulled. The hammer block will stop the gun from discharging. I know, I have tried it on a DAO Model 10-10 I have. I had to look high and low to find a forged spurless hammer for the 10-10, at least one that was done right and not a "bubba job".

Wayne M · #12 11-23-2010, 11:17 AM

A spurless hammer has some utility for IWB carry or pocket carry if your gun is small enough but DAO conversions purpose escapes me unless your boss says that's what you're gonna use. Just don't thumb cock the gun and save yourself the aggravation!

stantheman86 · #13 11-27-2010, 01:49 PM

I filed the SA notch of the hammer of my 10-14 yesterday, and today may get around to bobbing the spur off. I may order a spare MIM .265 or even a MIM target hammer just in case at some point I feel the need to "change" it back. One of the advantages of the MIM parts, they are readily available and will most likely drop in!

Just one more quick question, I filed the SA notch off the hammer, but didn't alter the trigger.......when I thumb the hammer back I can feel the trigger "nose" that engages the SA notch rubbing very slightly on the spot where the hammer SA sear used to be, I assume this doesn't matter but just wanted to make sure it wasn't "wrong".