|
|
01-29-2011, 01:37 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 6,634
Likes: 638
Liked 6,872 Times in 2,546 Posts
|
|
How do you remove the firing pin on a 3rd Gen with the safety on the left side only?
I want to remove the firing pins from my 915 and CS9. Both guns were bought used, and I want to really make sure the firing pin chaneel is clean. The video I found on youtube has you remove the right side safety lever first. neither one of my guns has a right side safety lever.
|
01-29-2011, 01:40 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: In the weeds, AZ
Posts: 747
Likes: 3
Liked 103 Times in 66 Posts
|
|
Should be pretty much the same, just skip the part about the right side safety.
|
01-29-2011, 03:12 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: CA Central Coast
Posts: 4,647
Likes: 920
Liked 6,613 Times in 2,198 Posts
|
|
I haven't seen the video to which you're referring, but not having an ambi safety means skipping having to remove the ambi lever, spring & plunger.
It also means not having to worry about mixing up the ambi lever spring & plunger with the manual safety body spring & plunger. Mixing up the plungers can result in heavy & nasty decocking and possibly scarring the inside of the slide where the round headed body plunger normally rubs if the shouldered ambi plunger is mistakenly put there.
Mixing up the springs usually results in other problems. For example, if the light weight ambi lever spring is mistakenly put in the body plunger (which should use a heavy spring), the pistol can decock under recoil, meaning the manual safety lever is forced down by mass/recoil/inertia. This can result in the pistol ending up in decocked/on-safe mode when the pistol is fired and recoils. It can turn the gun into a single shot pistol from the perspective of possibly having to return the manual safety lever to the up/off-safe (ready to fire) position after each shot. Not good.
I know an agency where a new armorer mistakenly mixed up the springs like that in duty guns. Fortunately, the mistake was discovered on the range instead of on the street.
__________________
Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer
|
01-29-2011, 06:02 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 6,634
Likes: 638
Liked 6,872 Times in 2,546 Posts
|
|
Thanks. I also have the AGI gunsmithing video for the 3rd gen's. I wanna take out the pin and spring and hose out the channel.
|
01-29-2011, 07:59 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: CA Central Coast
Posts: 4,647
Likes: 920
Liked 6,613 Times in 2,198 Posts
|
|
Removal of the firing pin isn't necessarily a difficult task, requiring a couple of pin punches (to depress the firing pin safety plunger and the firing pin at the same time). I've used a paperclip and a pin punch before.
It's a bit easier to push the manual safety assembly (body) out the left side of the slide when you have the longer ambi body (which sticks out and holds the ambi lever) to push against when pushing the assembly out of the slide, but it's still easy enough with the standard single lever assembly.
The manual safety body has to internally clear the rear of the firing pin (in its forward position) in order to be removed from the slide, hence the last little bit of forward movement being needed (meaning more than when the firing pin is captured forward by the firing pin safety plunger). One former armorer I know used to use forceps to hold the firing pin fully forward (clamped on the firing pin nose at the breech face). I never did so because I wondered about potentially scarring/scratching the firing pin. (Perhaps being overly cautious.)
If the firing doesn't come out it'll have to be pulled out, holding the firing pin safety plunger depressed. This may indicate a really badly fouled firing pin channel, or perhaps a broken/damaged firing pin spring (or firing pin).
Sometimes the spring won't come out with the firing pin (especially if the spring is broken or badly fouled). A small wire (end of small paperclip) with a small bend (hook) at the end can be used to catch the rear of the spring and gently pull it free (remember to depress the firing pin safety plunger when doing so).
Make sure you at least slip a finger or thumb tip over where the body plunger is going to clear the assembly ... or you might find yourself looking all over for it (wearing safety glasses isn't an unwise precaution ). Some folks drop a shop rag over the slide when pushing the assembly clear of the slide. I just use a finger tip placed over the edge of the bottom of the slide, where the assembly is going to clear the slide.
Once the manual safety assembly body has been removed from the slide (and you haven't put an eye out from a launched body plunger & spring ), depressing the firing pin safety plunger should then release the firing pin (pointing the rear of the slide downward into a loosely wadded shop rag can help catch the firing pin and spring).
While I haven't ever used the DVD you mentioned, if it follows the process used by the factory armorers the info above ought to make sense.
I don't offer the above comments as stand alone "How To" instructions, being pretty limited in themselves, but as some informational comments that might be helpful when using the DVD. It's never really prudent to "tinker" with firearms without some knowledge and experience.
Remember that once everything has been reassembled, it's wise to depress the firing pin safety plunger with a pin punch and pushing on the end of the firing pin, pushing it in & out a few times to make sure it moves as designed.
If you use Q-tips or "pipe cleaners", make sure they don't leave any fibers (or chunks) inside, or around the plungers where they connect with the firing pin channel. Such debris can create the potential for functioning issues to arise. I once heard an armorer, at an armorer class for another brand of pistol, describe how enough of a cotton swab head had unknowingly remained inside the firing pin channel from cleaning and it had blocked the firing pin from hitting a primer. Oops.
Also, the first time the firing pin is pushed out the front of the breech face after cleaning & reassembly (when checking normal function & freedom of movement), you might check to see if some accumulated crud is on the tip, pushed out of where it might have been lurking in the breech face's hole.
Just some thoughts that might, or might not, be of interest when you review your gunsmithing DVD.
Oh yeah, if that's the DVD that suggests using the tip of pen knife to lightly bevel the firing pin hole ... email me and I'll explain an easier, more controllable method & tool to use.
__________________
Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer
Last edited by Fastbolt; 01-29-2011 at 08:02 PM.
|
01-29-2011, 08:03 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 6,634
Likes: 638
Liked 6,872 Times in 2,546 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastbolt
Removal of the firing pin isn't necessarily a difficult task, requiring a couple of pin punches (to depress the firing pin safety plunger and the firing pin at the same time). I've used a paperclip and a pin punch before.
It's a bit easier to push the manual safety assembly (body) out the left side of the slide when you have the longer ambi body (which sticks out and holds the ambi lever) to push against when pushing the assembly out of the slide, but it's still easy enough with the standard single lever assembly.
The manual safety body has to internally clear the rear of the firing pin (in its forward position) in order to be removed from the slide, hence the last little bit of forward movement being needed (meaning more than when the firing pin is captured forward by the firing pin safety plunger). One former armorer I know used to use forceps to hold the firing pin fully forward (clamped on the firing pin nose at the breech face). I never did so because I wondered about potentially scarring/scratching the firing pin. (Perhaps being overly cautious.)
If the firing doesn't come out it'll have to be pulled out, holding the firing pin safety plunger depressed. This may indicate a really badly fouled firing pin channel, or perhaps a broken/damaged firing pin spring (or firing pin).
Sometimes the spring won't come out with the firing pin (especially if the spring is broken or badly fouled). A small wire (end of small paperclip) with a small bend (hook) at the end can be used to catch the rear of the spring and gently pull it free (remember to depress the firing pin safety plunger when doing so).
Make sure you at least slip a finger or thumb tip over where the body plunger is going to clear the assembly ... or you might find yourself looking all over for it (wearing safety glasses isn't an unwise precaution ). Some folks drop a shop rag over the slide when pushing the assembly clear of the slide. I just use a finger tip placed over the edge of the bottom of the slide, where the assembly is going to clear the slide.
Once the manual safety assembly body has been removed from the slide (and you haven't put an eye out from a launched body plunger & spring ), depressing the firing pin safety plunger should then release the firing pin (pointing the rear of the slide downward into a loosely wadded shop rag can help catch the firing pin and spring).
While I haven't ever used the DVD you mentioned, if it follows the process used by the factory armorers the info above ought to make sense.
I don't offer the above comments as stand alone "How To" instructions, but as some informational comments that might be helpful when using the DVD.
Remember that once everything has been reassembled, it's wise to depress the firing pin safety plunger with a pin punch and pushing on the end of the firing pin, pushing it in & out a few times to make sure it moves as designed.
If you use Q-tips or "pipe cleaners", make sure they don't leave any fibers (or chunks) inside, or around the plungers where they connect with the firing pin channel. Such debris can create the potential for functioning issues to arise. I once heard an armorer, at an armorer class for another brand of pistol, describe how enough of a cotton swab head had unknowingly remained inside the firing pin channel from cleaning and it had blocked the firing pin from hitting a primer. Oops.
Also, the first time the firing pin is pushed out the front of the breech face after cleaning & reassembly (when checking normal function & freedom of movement), you might check to see if some accumulated crud is on the tip, pushed out of where it might have been lurking in the breech face's hole.
Just some thoughts that might, or might not, be of interest when you review your gunsmithing DVD.
Oh yeah, if that's the DVD that suggests using the tip of pen knife to lightly bevel the firing pin hole ... email me and I'll explain an easier, more controllable method & tool to use.
|
Thanks. It seems complicated, but I really want to do it. Your instructions should help. I'll let you know.
|
01-29-2011, 08:26 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: CA Central Coast
Posts: 4,647
Likes: 920
Liked 6,613 Times in 2,198 Posts
|
|
I edited and added to my comments a bit after you copied them in your last posting.
Granted, the first few times I removed the manual safety & firing pin it seemed somewhat complex and unwieldy, and I had someone beside me teaching me how to do it and watching me as I fumbled. It seemed at the time that it would have gone more smoothly with 3 hands (if there was room to use them ).
As with many mechanical techniques, though, once you've been shown the proper way to do it and have done it the right way enough times ... it becomes easier.
Got a local gunsmith who might be willing to give you a brief demo in person if you took in the slide? That, or you might make his acquaintance when you enter his business with a freezer bag of loose parts at some point.
Are you mechanically inclined when it comes to small equipment?
__________________
Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer
|
01-30-2011, 10:34 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Moon Township, PA
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
|
|
As the owner of a CS9, I have never done anything besides a field strip. Searching this website, youtube, etc helps but I haven't seen a DIY section with videos or photos. Is there such a site? I know for my Sig there are Armorer's videos that show the "insert tab A into slot B" kind of DIY cleaning. Do the videos mentioned on this site lend themselves to the non-gunsmith guy who is handy with tools?
I really think it is time to do a thorough cleaning of my CS9 since it is carried daily and fired monthly. I will look at YouTube and see what they offer plus re-read Fastbolt's comments.
|
01-30-2011, 10:41 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Moon Township, PA
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbm6893
I want to remove the firing pins from my 915 and CS9. Both guns were bought used, and I want to really make sure the firing pin chaneel is clean. The video I found on youtube has you remove the right side safety lever first. neither one of my guns has a right side safety lever.
|
Can you provide the link to this procedure? Lots of videos on M&Ps, Sigmas, etc but not so many on CS9 generation pistols.
|
01-30-2011, 01:38 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Victoria, Texas
Posts: 3,322
Likes: 380
Liked 1,016 Times in 358 Posts
|
|
I think I have pics on my work computer of this.
I will see if they are still there and post.
|
01-30-2011, 02:06 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Moon Township, PA
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by SW CQB 45
I think I have pics on my work computer of this.
I will see if they are still there and post.
|
I found this link and I am hoping that there is a HUGE difference between this 4506 with ambi safety and my CS9. The YouTube video shows the 4506 safety/decocker sliding out rather easily. Mine is in there and isn't moving. It moves the slightest bit but doesn't want to come out. That is with the firing pin captive by the slide and the firing pin pressed in the remaining tiny bit. I will continue to investigate this.
|
01-30-2011, 02:26 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Victoria, Texas
Posts: 3,322
Likes: 380
Liked 1,016 Times in 358 Posts
|
|
you may not be pushing the firing pin down far enough.
also, it sometimes takes three hands.
try securing the slide in a protective or padded vise.
|
01-30-2011, 02:44 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 6,634
Likes: 638
Liked 6,872 Times in 2,546 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpa72
I found this link and I am hoping that there is a HUGE difference between this 4506 with ambi safety and my CS9. The YouTube video shows the 4506 safety/decocker sliding out rather easily. Mine is in there and isn't moving. It moves the slightest bit but doesn't want to come out. That is with the firing pin captive by the slide and the firing pin pressed in the remaining tiny bit. I will continue to investigate this.
|
I was having the same problem with my CS9, and I realized the firing pin wasn't in far enough. Even with the safety drum a bit over, if you can still see that firing pin, press it in a bit more, and keep pulling and rotating the drum. I did it to my 915 first, and once I got the hand of it, the CS9 was much easier. The 915 firing pin and channel were CAKED with crud and lint. CS9 was pretty clean. That youtube video makes it a snap.
|
01-30-2011, 02:45 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Moon Township, PA
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by SW CQB 45
you may not be pushing the firing pin down far enough.
also, it sometimes takes three hands.
try securing the slide in a protective or padded vise.
|
I saw Fastbolt's comment that the firing pin needs that little extra push to clear the body of the decocker/safety and I used a brass pin to push it in, perhaps 1/16". However, the resistance in pushing the decocker is more than I am comfortable with. Does it matter whether the decocker is in the safe or fire position?
Thank you for your comments.
|
01-30-2011, 02:47 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 6,634
Likes: 638
Liked 6,872 Times in 2,546 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpa72
Can you provide the link to this procedure? Lots of videos on M&Ps, Sigmas, etc but not so many on CS9 generation pistols.
|
Try this. or just type in "S&W 4506 detail slide strip". it's by a guy named razor02907. The video you want is number three in the series.
YouTube - Smith & Wesson Mod 4506 advanced takedown Part 3
|
01-30-2011, 02:47 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 6,634
Likes: 638
Liked 6,872 Times in 2,546 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpa72
I saw Fastbolt's comment that the firing pin needs that little extra push to clear the body of the decocker/safety and I used a brass pin to push it in, perhaps 1/16". However, the resistance in pushing the decocker is more than I am comfortable with. Does it matter whether the decocker is in the safe or fire position?
Thank you for your comments.
|
The safety needs to be in the fire position.
|
01-30-2011, 02:51 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Moon Township, PA
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbm6893
|
Right. Stupid me! I typed in "I found this link" and then promptly didn't publish it here. That is the link I was referring to. His decocker slides out relatively easy whereas mine is tight. I suspect that the comment that my pin isn't being pushed in far enough may be the key. I will set up my bench vise with pads and see if that gets me the extra hand I need. May I assume that my CS9 decocker should push out, more or less, the same as the 4506?
thanks
|
01-30-2011, 03:01 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Victoria, Texas
Posts: 3,322
Likes: 380
Liked 1,016 Times in 358 Posts
|
|
yes........the same CS9 and 4500
and use a 1/16" punch or a heavyyyyyyyy paper clip
I also have experienced some decocker bodies that are difficult to remove.
I have some plastic or nylon punches that were purchased for sight removal and they are valueless on tight dovetailed sights but have come in handy when I come across a stubborn decocker body and dont want to mar the ejection side of the body.
Last edited by SW CQB 45; 01-30-2011 at 03:06 PM.
|
01-30-2011, 03:27 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Moon Township, PA
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
|
|
Success!
Using a combination of a well padded vise to free up my hands, a shot of PB Blaster on the decocker main body (to loosen up any potential crud) and pushing the firing pin firmly forward, the decocker moved! Yeeha. The other good news is that the firing pin tunnel was relatively clean. I oiled it all up, wiped off the vast majority of it and then reassembled.
Thank you all for your help.
I am looking at a police trade-in 4516 tomorrow and it is nice to know that I now can clean the firing pin and tunnel.
Grumpa
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|