Bought a M&P (pre model 10) for a good price and have enjoyed shooting it. Decided to have it refinished because most of the blue was gone. No pitting just honest wear. Took off the grips and they were really hard to remove....a good deal of rust had built up on the frame. Really no serious pitting. Just heard from my refinishing man and he said that he could not get the sideplate screws loose no matter what he did including soaking in Kroil Oil. He did get the cylinder screw loose after soaking. He belieives that the "insides are probably very rusty" and has decided not to refinish the revolver. That is fine but now I am wondering the best course of action to square things away......it has always functioned properly so I can't see any great internal damage being present. Help....

rick

Take off the grips and put your revolver in a small pan and dump in enough kroil to entirely cover it up. Let it soak for a few days. Use an air compressor to blow out any oil remaining inside the sideplate. If you see some reddish or brownish stain in the kroil then maybe you have a rust problem. However it could just be that someone greased the heck out of it and the staining may be old oil or grease. In that case the sideplate has to come off. Maybe its time to find another smith or send it to S&W. Frank

I doubt that S&W will service a pre model 10, they tend to turn down requests for servicing revolver this old due to a lack of parts and liability concerns.

Stuck screws can be delt with. Sometime Kroil can help. Another thing that can help is using a hammer and a very slighty loose screwdriver to "shock" the screw after a good soak and then re-soaking. What this can do is cause the vibration to trigger that oil to penetrate into the threads via capilary action. In addition it can help to break the bond if there is some corrosion present.

Other times heat can be the solution, as in baking the gun in an oven set to about 250 degrees. BTW, this temperature won't have any effect on temper or heat treating because it's too low, you have to get to about 600 degrees F before any steel will start to temper, so it's completely safe for the gun. However, because you have to work while it's hot, you will most definately need some well insulated gloves to handle it.

Now, one warning. Odds are pretty good that you may bugger up these screws. To reduce the chance of this happening make sure that you have perfectly fitted screwdrivers before you start and I mean a fit close enough that they require a light tap to get them fully seated in the slot. I'll also warn you that if you use a pencil torch to heat the head of the screw, a last ditch solution, it's very likely that you will soften the head of the screw and that will leave visible damage even with a perfectly fitted screwdriver. You'll also want to have the gun very well supported while you are working on it, a lap won't be suitable. Personally, I'd take the time to carve a soft pine support to provide a fitted nest to hold the gun firmly and clamp the nested package to a bench while being very careful to not clamp so tight that the frame could get bent. Basically you want that nest fitted near perfectly to the entire profile from barrel to grip frame so that the forces you apply are distributed, then clamp your nest firmly to the bench and the gun very lightly into the nest. Also, if you have access to a drill press or vertical mill, chuck your screwdriver tip in either and use the chuck to turn the bit, that way you won't slip with your screwdriver and bugger up the screws.

Finally, I'd suggest that you try and track down some spare screws. Note, I expect that these screws are NOT the same size as what is currently used, S&W has a long history of making changes and I expect that screw sizes are one of the items that have changed over the years. So, you'll probably need to do a bit of hunting to find screws that will find your revolver. That source who was going to re-finish your gun may be one possibility, another may be hit the net, souces such as Numrich's, Brownells, or others may have the correct screws.

You suspect wrong! S&W sidelate screws on all size hand-ejector frames are, and always have been, 5-44, the same as S&W stock screws.

__________________
Gunsmithing since 1961

That's a bit of good news, should make it much simpler to find replacements. However, I do know that the yoke retention screw has changed for the #5-44 to an M4 metric on the guns that feature the spring plunger style of screw for the yoke. I also suspect that finding the large headed screw used for the top of the sideplate on the early guns won't be easy to find.

Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't be a profitable enterprize to spedifically produce restoration parts for these older revolvers. There are a lot of them out there and with the advances made via CnC machining it wouldn't be that difficult to take an oversize rifled barrel blank and re-profile it to match any vintage of revolver ever made.

A drill press can be a great assist in removing tight screws. You can put great down force on the screw head and turn the chuck with your hand.

The other thing impacting the screw driver with the hammer does is put down force on the screw threads to help them loosen. It is how I tighten the screws attaching bases to a rifle action.

If tapping the screwdriver handle with the hammer while putting torque on the screw head doesn't work, you might give the drill press a try.

In loosening the screws, try some of my home brew penetrating oil. Supposedly the best, and it has been for me, but I'll let the rest give the marks for that.

50% ATF (auto trans fluid) plus 50% acetine. Soak for a few days and then smack with hammer from time to time.
Hope this helps
chris

Yes, but correctly that is the "Yoke screw assembly" in the newer guns, not a "sideplate screw". The exception is the large headed top screw on 5-screw guns. That one is finer and has changed, at least on the new "Classic" revolvers. I was referring to the remaining 3 screws.

Now you have me curious what the 5th screw size was!

You are right, it shouldn't be hard to make new reproduction screws at a reasonable price, it is getting the right person interested! Numrich has been making (poor) Colt "New Service" ejector rod heads for years, but nothing else I am aware of.

I do manufacture S&W stock screw sets of correct size and with highly polished stainless steel screws. These are accurate except for being yellow brass instead of white brass or German Silver as the early ones were. Try finding either material, I haven't been able to! They aren't inexpensive either. The hardest part is slotting them!

__________________
Gunsmithing since 1961

Alk8944

I have always won the battle of the stuck screw (on guns) up until about two months ago! My friend brought over a newly acquired vintage 1961 Browning A-5 Shotgun in what I would say is 96% or better condition. The only problem with the shotgun was it was utterly filthy and sat that way for many many years - so the action was all gummed up. I have taken apart Browning A-5's many times and I got all the screws out except for the last one that holds in the shell plate. I tried every trick in the book and just couldn't loosen this thing, and since I am familiar with the guns innards, I was able to sneak the action out while leaving the last screw in place. Browning screws have very thin slots and the properly ground screwdriver blades will snap in short order with too much force applied. Since my intention was to disassemble the gun for cleaning and lubrication, and since I did accomplish that, I was not willing to go any farther to remove the screw. The risk of buggering up the screw on a beautiful gun and having to drill it out made no sense since there was away around removing it. I saw no evidence of rust anywhere on the gun, and none of the other screws had any Locktite or thread locker on them. 'Till this day I still have no idea why it was stuck in there, but if it had not been that particular screw I would have gone farther and more than likely would have wound up drilling it out.

Drilling out a screw is a pain, but not the end of the world, (just takes a lot of patience). Thankfully, I have never had to do it on a firearm, but have had to do it many many times on Harley-Davidson Motorcycles. They chrome their screws and use thread locker on them all, so they are tighter than a Bulls butt in fly season!

The Browning now functions perfectly and still looks great, but I still am wondering what the heck is holding that damn screw in there!

Chief38

Alk8944,

since you seem to know about S&W gun screws, here's one for ya!

I recently lost my 84 year old Dad who was a retired LEO. I inherited all of his guns and have spent the last month cleaning, repairing and restoring anything that needed attention. I have completely rebuilt his back-up gun (the timing was off so bad the firing pin was hitting the cartridge cases - but all better now using Factory new - old stock parts) which was a pre model 36 (4 digit serial number) and is a NICKEL 5 screw model built in 1951. I have tried to buy a replacement screw set and after a month of calling just about everybody, I have just about given up!

What I did was to repair them using files, stones, and a Jeweler's saw, and then I gave them a very high polish so they look like Nickel again. The repair job came out acceptable, but I would like to find true replacements for the Nickle screws. Even though the gun is called a 5 screw, it actually has 6 if you count the screw (not a nut) that holds the flat latch on and the one in the front of the trigger guard. Since I did a pretty good restoration job, I am not desperate, but would like to have original Nickel factory replacement screws if you know where I might be able to try. Like I have stated above, I've tried all the usual sources, and even a few small shops, but have still come up empty handed.

Chief38