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S&W-Smithing Maintenance, Repair, and Enhancement of Smith & Wesson and Other Firearms.


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Old 08-07-2011, 03:49 PM
c good c good is offline
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Default K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please.

I've got a nice model 19-3, 4 inch that I would like to lighten the rebound and mainspring on just a little. It is strictly a target revolver but I don't want to go too light. I shoot mostly .38 special reloads, Winchester pistol primers, 158 gr plated. Just want to try something a little different then the stock springs.

Also have a 586, 4 inch that I would like to work on. Any recommendations would be appreciated. c good
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Old 08-07-2011, 04:31 PM
310Pilot 310Pilot is offline
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K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please.  
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I recommend you pick up a Wolff rebound spring pack, contains several springs of differing weight, all below the stock (18 lb, IIRC) spring. The 13 lb spring usually works well, with a reduced trigger pull and positive trigger reset. Try several different spring weights to determine which is best for you.

Also, the Wolff ribbed main (hammer) springs offer help in this area. Usually, the standard weight Wolff ribbed spring results in a smoother trigger pull, with a perception of some reduced weight, and the reduced power version can make an almost dramatic difference. Reliability with the reduced power spring is usually good, may vary from gun to gun, and with different primers, although I never had a problem with either CCI or Winchester primers.

Midway and Brownell's usually have them in stock, and the prices are low enough that you can try several variations and/or combinations without breaking the bank. The springs for K and L frames (the 19 and 586, respectively) are, I believe, the same, so you will be covered by one set of rebound springs (unless you settle on the same spring for both guns), and the main spring you choose for each gun. Hope this helps.

One other thing - both Midway and Brownell's sell a stone that fits the rebound slide track (I believe it is actually listed as a specialty stone for 1911 trigger tracks in 1911 frames). It may help to lightly stone the rebound slide track in the frame, and the rebound slide itself (remember - lightly stoned, a little goes a long way) to smooth out its operation.
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Old 08-07-2011, 04:38 PM
tomcatt51 tomcatt51 is offline
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K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please.  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 310Pilot View Post
One other thing - both Midway and Brownell's sell a stone that fits the rebound slide track (I believe it is actually listed as a specialty stone for 1911 trigger tracks in 1911 frames).
Part # or link?
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Old 08-07-2011, 04:58 PM
jepp2 jepp2 is offline
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K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please.  
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maybe?

1911 trigger track stone
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  #5  
Old 08-07-2011, 05:32 PM
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PH-2 PH-2 is offline
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K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please.  
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c good,

You may find, if using replacement springs for both main and rebound applications, you could get a very light SA trigger, something on the order of 1.5 lbs. I, personally, consider that a bit of a liability. If you have, or can borrow a trigger gauge, test both SA and DA pull weights before doing any work, then again after spring(s) replacement. This will give you a baseline to measure your changes.
After changing both springs in my 28-2, I found the SA pull to be about 1.5 to 1.25 lbs. I went back to the factory main and used the #14 rebound. I lightly stoned the surfaces indicated as per the Miculek trigger job DVD. That put me at 4 lbs SA and 8.25 to 8.5 DA pulls, with a smooth pull, nice break, and reliable ignition as the end result. All components and DVD are available through Midway/Brownells, just use their site searches.

Good Luck,
Mike
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Old 08-07-2011, 05:37 PM
2238945 2238945 is offline
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K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please.  
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How do you feel that a 1.5# SA trigger could be a liability in a gun that the OP stated will be strictly a range gun? If carried, then yeah I see what you mean, but it doesnt make a bit of a problem in a range gun.
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Old 08-07-2011, 06:45 PM
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PH-2 PH-2 is offline
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K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please.  
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22etc.-

I have a range only gun with a measured pull of 1 pound. It is a liability. If you experienced this extremely light pull, I believe you might agree with me.
Do you own or shoot a handgun with this kind of extremely light pull?

Mike
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Old 08-07-2011, 07:43 PM
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chief38 chief38 is offline
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K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please.  
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OK, here is my .02 cents...............

The rebound spring can be replaced with a lighter Wolf spring. You can buy the assortment pack which includes 5 springs ranging from 11 - 15 pounds. You can then experiment until you find what you like and works well in your particular gun.

As far as the main spring is concerned, there is no reason to replace it. What I do is I buy a few strain screws (don't like to grind an original) and remove a little material from the screw to cause it to push the main spring in less. This will lighten the action. If you happen to go too far, you then take another screw and grind it down a bit less than the one that did not work. The screws are very inexpensive, and by slightly shortening them it still allows them to be fully tightened.

These two things in conjunction with a very light deburring /polishing and some high quality lubricant will result in a light slick action. Just make sure that this is designated a "RANGE GUN ONLY". Do not use it for self defense. I even go so far as to put a note in the box with gun that states that it has a lightened action and if anything should happen to you, the person getting the gun will know the score. I put the original rebound spring and strain screws in a small zip lock bag and staple it to the note.

Chief38
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Old 08-07-2011, 07:57 PM
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K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please.  
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chief38,

I think that is a smart practice!

Mike
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Old 08-07-2011, 08:54 PM
scooter123 scooter123 is offline
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Chief38 has an approach similar to mine, however I made it a habit to test for ignition reliability and it's effect on accuracy during the process. The end result is no loss in accuracy and complete reliability with any ammunition that I have been able to find.

In my model 620, I've installed a 13 lbs. rebound spring and installed 0.022 inch of shim under the head of the strain screw. Because it features a frame mounted firing pin, I was able to replace the firing pin with a slightly longer firing pin with an extra 0.015 inch of travel due to the longer travel slot. The firing pin is from Cylinder and Slide. Single Action trigger pull is 3 lbs. even and the Double Action trigger weight is 8 lbs. even.

Now, I will note that the frame mounted firing pin offers an option that isn't availble to gun with a hammer mounted firing pin. That is that you can purchase longer firing pins than what was originally supplied from the factory. Recently it seem that S&W has lengthened their firing pin to 0.495 inch which matches the length that Cylinder & Slide offers and those from Apex Tactical. I should also emphacise that the C&S firing pin does feature a longer travel slot than factory and dry firing with this firing pin without snap caps can wad up the firing pin return spring. I will also note that the C&S firing pin SHOULD NOT be used until the Double Action trigger pull has been reduced to 9 lbs. or less, otherwise it may pierce the primer and get stuck. Apex Tactical takes a slightly different path, as I understand it their firing pins are Tatanium and they also offer a lighter firing pin return spring. I've got my eye on a 627-5 at a local dealer and if it's still for sale next weekend it'll be the next revolver I tune up and I intend to try Apex Tactical's ignition kit in this gun.

Something else that I've found is that the Hammer must be factored into the equation. As odd as it may sound, a heavier Target Hammer requires MORE power from the mainspring than a lighter Service Hammer. As for why, primer ignition is a result of Kinetic Energy and since that is a product of Mass time the Square of the Velocity speed matters. Because of this IMO you can go between 1/2 to 1 lbs. lighter with the DA trigger weight with a Service hammer than you can with a Target hammer. Cut the spur off completely and you may be able to gain another 1/2 lbs. or perhaps more. Bottomline, on a modern revolver with a frame mounted firing pin, by bobbing the hammer and using in increased reliability firing pin should result in a DA trigger between 7 amd 7.5 lbs. with perfect reliability with common commercial ammunitions. If you have an older model with a Target hammer I wouldn't recomend going below 8.5 lbs on the DA trigger and 9 lbs. may be the lower limit for reliable ignition with any ammo you can find.

As for the basis, here is the list of revolvers I've been experimenting with and the resulting trigger weights at this point.

Model 620. DA trigger at 8 lbs. 0 ounces, SA trigger at 3 lbs. 0 ounces. C&S firing pin. Service hammer. 13 lbs. rebound spring.

Model 67-1. DA trigger at 9 lbs. 0 ounces, SA trigger at 3 lbs. 1 ounce. I can probably take the DA trigger to 8.5 lbs. but haven't tried this yet. Service Hammer with hammer mounted firing pin. 14 lbs. rebound spring.

Model 617 no dash. DA trigger at 9 lbs. 0 ounces, SA trigger at 2 lbs. 3 ounces. Target hammer with factory rimfire frame mounted firing pin. Ignition has only been tested with Winchester and Federal bulk ammunitions but is 100% reliable. Target hammer. 14 lbs. rebound spring. The gun was purchased used and equipped with a red dot scope, so I strongly suspect the previous owner had stoned on the SA sear on the trigger and this is why the SA trigger is so light. At some point I'll sharpen the SA sear back to the factory specification and this should result in a 3 lbs. SA trigger.

Model 610-3. DA trigger is 9 lbs. 0 ounces and SA trigger is 3 lbs. 0 ounces. At one point I tried at at 8 lbs. 0 ounces for the DA trigger and ignition failed at a 30% rate, which is how I learned that Target hammers require more power than Service hammers. C&S firing pin. Target hammer. 14 lbs. rebound spring.

Finally, commercial ammo's used to test for ignition reliability and accuracy. In 38 spl. it's been WWB, Remington, Blazer, Speer Lawman (both standard and +P), and American Eagle. In 357 Magnum it's just been American Eagle because Speer 357 Magnum is just too expensive and I haven't found any locally in the Lawman line. In the 610 it's been Federal Champion and Speer Lawman 40 S&W. I've also shot one box to 10mm Magtech but it's all I could find locally. At some point I'll order some hunting 10mm loads from Double Tap and try it out in a limited way, however my primary use for the 10mm would be for hunting and this would mainly be used in Single Action so the bulk of my testing with this ammo will be for accuracy.

As for the Rimfire, I shoot the 617 with the cheap stuff because it's accurate and cheap. Thus my choice of either the Winchester bulk or Federal bulk. However, with the chambers in the cylinder clean I have yet to experience one single misfire. Some day I'll try it with some CCI 22LR but it will just be to satisfy my curiosity. BTW, I've shot the 617 a LOT in double action rapid fire and it's a pure blast. Muzzle movement is so minimal that the only thing that limits my firing rate is how fast I can pull the trigger.

Last edited by scooter123; 08-07-2011 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 08-07-2011, 09:28 PM
jepp2 jepp2 is offline
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K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please.  
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Quote:
I went back to the factory main and used the #14 rebound. I lightly stoned the surfaces indicated as per the Miculek trigger job DVD. That put me at 4 lbs SA and 8.25 to 8.5 DA pulls
My experience has been much like Scooter's. I just recently went through my 14-2 and 617 no dash. Changed the rebound springs to 14 pound and stayed with original main. Both were 3 lb. 12 oz. SA prior to the work, and 3 lb. even after. I don't stone the single action sear. I also don't shoot DA much. They are smooth and trigger reset is excellent. Works for me.

By the way, both had target hammers.

Last edited by jepp2; 08-07-2011 at 09:30 PM. Reason: added detail
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Old 02-17-2017, 05:44 PM
buckyjames1 buckyjames1 is offline
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K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please. K,L frame, Rebound Spring, Main Spring Recommendations please.  
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I use the Wilson Combat package (Custom-TuneĢ Spring Kit | S&W K/L/N Frame Revolvers-http://shopwilsoncombat.com/ )

So far I have had great results with the Wilson combat main spring and the 14lb rebound spring. (in a 586, 686). Good thing is you can play around with each spring weight, I just prefer the 14lb as a standard.

- I have not had good or consistency using the Wolf reduced main spring with any rebound spring combinations.

- I have also found that my 617 is a tricky booger, I have not found a good combo yet that can give reliable ignition and lighter springs but...I am also new to performing my own action jobs and not great at matching spring weights to something quite as sensitive as the .22 617 combo. Still tinkering with it.

It has been a learning experience and I have now performed my own action slicking up on a model 60, 686, 586, and 617.

Long story short, a spring kit can reduce a little weight or alot of weight, and a few strokes with some stones can slick up the rough spots.

Last edited by buckyjames1; 02-17-2017 at 05:47 PM.
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1911, 22lr, 357 magnum, 586, 610, 617, 627, brownells, commercial, l frame, lock, model 19, primer, remington, ribbed, rimfire, scope, tactical, winchester

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