Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Ammunition-Gunsmithing > S&W-Smithing
o

Notices

S&W-Smithing Maintenance, Repair, and Enhancement of Smith & Wesson and Other Firearms.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-14-2021, 11:40 AM
SOFMatchstaff SOFMatchstaff is offline
US Veteran
Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ??  
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: VEGAS
Posts: 239
Likes: 143
Liked 93 Times in 40 Posts
Default Mod 28 gas cutting ??

What would be the limits of gas cutting on the frame of a Mod 28? Has anyone welded on a frame? This was a rental and its is as bad as I have ever seen. I need a new barrel as it is literally shot out, so the barrel has to come out anyhow. Im thinking a stainless Tig to fill the canyon.
__________________
Shooter Ready
Standby
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-14-2021, 12:28 PM
stansdds stansdds is offline
Member
Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ??  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 8,712
Likes: 19,273
Liked 11,732 Times in 5,350 Posts
Default

Let's see a picture of the eroded area.
__________________
VCDL, GOA, NRA
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-14-2021, 01:35 PM
shocker's Avatar
shocker shocker is offline
Member
Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ??  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,482
Likes: 550
Liked 1,427 Times in 666 Posts
Default

Literally shot out a barrel? Like 100,000 rounds of factory ammo loaded with H110?
Frame erosion tends reach it's own limit so unless you continue to fire lots of max loads with known to erode propellants I'd leave it rather than weld on a forging.
__________________
To cannon, all men are equal
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 04-14-2021, 07:59 PM
ddixie884's Avatar
ddixie884 ddixie884 is offline
Member
Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ??  
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Avery,Tx
Posts: 2,563
Likes: 3,812
Liked 1,860 Times in 938 Posts
Default

I have also heard and read that it is a self limiting condition. Of coarse they could all be wrong......
__________________
dd884
JMHO-YMMV
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-14-2021, 08:25 PM
Abflyboy Abflyboy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 338
Likes: 1,109
Liked 255 Times in 131 Posts
Default

Pics? I am curious what makes the barrel 'shot out'.

I have several 629's that have flame cutting. It got to a certain point then stopped.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-14-2021, 11:48 PM
chief38's Avatar
chief38 chief38 is online now
Member
Mod 28 gas cutting ??  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 17,759
Likes: 7,835
Liked 25,615 Times in 8,661 Posts
Default

IMHO the .357 Magnum was originally designed for shooting with a 158 grain slug. It is pretty much known that the lighter the bullet one shoots the more the gun is subjected to flame cutting.

My advise (and what I do) is to only shoot 158 grain Mags for general shooting. While the 125 grain has a better reputation as a stopper, I’d limit those to as few as possible. After a few practice shots you will know where they hit and so the fewer the better. If you wanted to load them for SD/HD and very rarely shoot light billets your flame cutting would be minimalized.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-14-2021, 11:51 PM
chief38's Avatar
chief38 chief38 is online now
Member
Mod 28 gas cutting ??  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 17,759
Likes: 7,835
Liked 25,615 Times in 8,661 Posts
Default

As far as tig welding - I do not know how welding would affect the integrity of the revolver. Personally, unless there was no choice in the matter, I’d not do so but I’m certainly not a welder or a metallurgist.

Last edited by chief38; 04-14-2021 at 11:52 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-19-2021, 01:46 PM
SOFMatchstaff SOFMatchstaff is offline
US Veteran
Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ??  
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: VEGAS
Posts: 239
Likes: 143
Liked 93 Times in 40 Posts
Default

I still havent got an answer to the two questions I posed...I would like information, not opinions or history lessons. Experience and measurement values would be appreciated.
thanks
__________________
Shooter Ready
Standby
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-19-2021, 03:32 PM
ggibson511960 ggibson511960 is offline
Member
Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ??  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 975
Likes: 1,116
Liked 1,237 Times in 532 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOFMatchstaff View Post
I still havent got an answer to the two questions I posed...I would like information, not opinions or history lessons. Experience and measurement values would be appreciated.
thanks
I'll take a stab at answering the first question. There is no way to evaluate a tolerable safe limit of erosion. One could carefully measure the reduction of area in the top strap and calculate a theoretical stress increase, but there is no rational way to evaluate the increased risk of fracture from stress intensification from notches or cracks because the damaged area is irregular. A stress analysis of the top strap section would quickly run up against what acceptance criteria to use, i.e., what are the normal and proof loadings imposed on the part and what is an allowable stress. It is generally accepted, but not known for certain, that S&W frames are forged and heat treated 4140 chrome-molybdenum carbon steel. S&W is not going to tell you what it's made of, nor how it's heat treated. One thing is certain. Welding on the frame will create a heat affected zone with different properties than the base material including yield strength, tensile strength, fracture toughness and corrosion resistance, none of them any better.

If it were my M-28 and the visible gas cutting was more than 0.005 in., or if it was really jagged and pitted, I would dye penetrant test it to get a seat-of-the-pants feel for any gross cracking, pitting or slag inclusion. You could peen down any gnarly material, but the best solution would be a stainless steel guard strip to sacrificially absorb future abuse.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 04-19-2021, 04:50 PM
Hair Trigger's Avatar
Hair Trigger Hair Trigger is offline
US Veteran
Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ??  
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: western NC
Posts: 3,041
Likes: 2,532
Liked 6,851 Times in 2,139 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOFMatchstaff View Post
I still havent got an answer to the two questions I posed...I would like information, not opinions or history lessons. Experience and measurement values would be appreciated.
thanks
No way to give an educated evaluation without a picture of the flame cut.

As for welding of any type, my guess is the heat will warp the frame and ruin the gun for sure.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #11  
Old 04-19-2021, 05:46 PM
ken158 ken158 is offline
Member
Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ??  
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 4,667
Likes: 1,436
Liked 4,487 Times in 1,927 Posts
Default

First time I ever heard of a 28 having flame cutting that turned into a problem. Also curious who decided the barrel was shot out... Wondering how much lead is in the barrel to make it appear smooth maybe?
__________________
S&W factory revolver armorer
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-19-2021, 05:56 PM
Erocksmash's Avatar
Erocksmash Erocksmash is online now
Member
Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ??  
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 2,130
Likes: 3,407
Liked 3,151 Times in 1,021 Posts
Default

Could possibly be micro welded, BMCM here on the forum is the connect for that and has helped me before...

If the barrel is shot and flame cut is that sounds like a parts gun IMO
__________________
This is the way....
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-19-2021, 07:17 PM
harvester1 harvester1 is offline
Member
Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ??  
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 111
Likes: 264
Liked 83 Times in 43 Posts
Default

Size wise how does the flame cutting compare to the fouling cups on older guns?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-19-2021, 11:57 PM
BigBill BigBill is offline
Absent Comrade
Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ??  
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Planet earth
Posts: 13,869
Likes: 2,079
Liked 13,352 Times in 5,549 Posts
Default

What’s the cause for flame cutting?
Hotter loads?
A while back here it was mentioned that 296 powder causes it.
Or is the cylinder to barrel gap too big?

I only use 2400 powder for magnum loads and unique powder for leadcast loads. I don’t use 296 powder anymore I get more mileage with the 2400.

The metallurgy can change as little as 400 degrees. Welding might not be good for the heat treat.
__________________
Plant garlic in the fall

Last edited by BigBill; 04-20-2021 at 12:05 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-20-2021, 12:38 AM
LAWMAN662's Avatar
LAWMAN662 LAWMAN662 is offline
Member
Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ?? Mod 28 gas cutting ??  
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NORTH MISSISSIPPI
Posts: 95
Likes: 10
Liked 88 Times in 34 Posts
Default

What did S&W tell you?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
32/20 and gas cutting Qmark S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 7 06-22-2014 06:44 PM
Cutting Sideplates brokenprism S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 12 05-23-2014 10:06 AM
Flame Cutting Yuccathumper343 S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 11 09-06-2010 11:20 AM
Gas cutting on 629-1 Recon Reloading 18 10-23-2009 11:20 AM
Cutting a 29-4 Vanilla Gorilla S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 14 08-01-2009 09:21 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:42 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)