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Old 11-12-2011, 11:41 PM
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629-2.  Double action trigger pull issue. 629-2.  Double action trigger pull issue. 629-2.  Double action trigger pull issue. 629-2.  Double action trigger pull issue. 629-2.  Double action trigger pull issue.  
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Default 629-2. Double action trigger pull issue.

My stock DA pull had a point were it was pretty easy to stop the pull an make the hammer stay in the ready to fire position. After replacing the rebound spring an mainspring, and polishing the rebound block , there is still a noticable step in the DA pull . I have felt other N frames that have a smooth DA pull "without" the same step or interuption mine has.. Is this a hammer issue??
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Old 11-13-2011, 12:08 AM
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First, welcome to the forum. Trigger work is as much art as science in my experience. Its not about 1 or 2 parts, but everything being "in balance".
I use Jerry Miculek's DVD on trigger tuning as my guide. Jerry explains the "balance" issue very well. Even more important, he cautions the user away from potentially damaging "tuning" mistakes.
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Old 11-13-2011, 12:12 AM
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629-2.  Double action trigger pull issue. 629-2.  Double action trigger pull issue. 629-2.  Double action trigger pull issue. 629-2.  Double action trigger pull issue. 629-2.  Double action trigger pull issue.  
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Thanks for the welcome and the advice.
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Old 11-13-2011, 12:23 AM
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The gun can be tuned to eliminate the "stage" point, but it isn't a problem. That staging point you feel is inherent to the S&W lockwork, and means it is working totally normally for a stock gun, at least in this respect.

In other words, no, it isn't a problem.
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Old 11-13-2011, 12:26 AM
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Yup, to me what you describe is a good thing. You call train yourself to pull straight through for a smooth DA shot, or stage it and have a SA-like break without having to cock.

Welcome to the forum!
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Old 11-13-2011, 12:33 AM
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I guess my question would be.. How difficult is it to remove the stage ? And is it a job for a pro? Rather than just a mechanically adept dude with a how to book. Thanks
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Old 11-13-2011, 06:30 AM
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The best way to remove it (or at least reduce the felt staging) is to shoot the s*** out of it! It will smooth out and you will have fun practicing as well. When shooting PPC, I purposely stage the trigger quickly, so I have close to a single action - more controlled shot.

As long as the gun is not locking up, you are OK.

Chief38
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Old 11-13-2011, 09:41 AM
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Note, I am not a gunsmith nore have I been to the S&W Armorers School. I'm just someone who has always been a tinkerer and with an experimental mindset. As a result I've spent a fair amount of time poking around in the lockworks of my S&W's and have learned what's worked for me. I'll also highly recomend the Kuhnhausen S&W shop manual because it provides some excellent guidance, however it is now just a bit out of date concerning S&W revolvers of more recent manufacture.

First, shoot the snot out of it, I would recomend a minimum of 1000 rounds downrange. You'll not only break in some of the surfaces that may be a bit "hitchy" you'll also put some rub marks into the lockwork which will help identify areas that may need a bit of stoning or fitting.

In my experience there are 3 leading causes for a "stagy" trigger.

One is a very slight Hand/Cylinder stop bind. In most cases this will show up as a revolver that is stagy on just one or two chamber positions. In that case the solution is to remove a few 1/10 thousandths of an inch from the "clearance" face of the extractor lug where the hand moves to when it passes "off" driving the lug. One tip for identifying this is to compare the lockup on a stagy chamber position to one that isn't stagy. What you should observe is that stagy chamber position is distinctly tighter than the non stagy chamber positions. Just keep in mind that LESS IS BEST in this case and stop as soon as that staging disapears or is reduced by 70% or so. I'll also note that simply shooting the gun for a year or 3 will solve this by wearing in those tight lugs.

Second leading cause is a trigger rub. This is where putting lots of rounds downrange is a great assistance. Because a trigger rub will leave rub marks on either the sideplate or in the lockwork recess. Be aware that in a heavily used revolver a trigger rub is likely due to wear. Meaning the trigger or trigger stud may need replacement. In the case of a trigger stud, it's a job I believe should be left to a real Pro. Since finding a true Pro capable of doing this today isn't easy I'd send a gun that needed a new trigger stud back home to S&W. On a newer gun that hasn't been shot to the point of severe wear a trigger rub is mainly due to an assembly issue. Two options here. One is to take advantage of the warranty and have S&W correct it. Second option is to shim the trigger in a direction away from that rub. IMO if a 0.002 inch trigger shim fixes the rub, no need to send it home. If a thicker shim is required, time for a warranty repair because too much shim will cause the sideplate to bind up the trigger.

Third cause is the rebound slide. I've found that the recent N frames generally tend to have the most stage free triggers because they have a trigger stop rod installed inside the rebound spring. My theory is that this rod helps keep the rebound spring from "buckling" as it collapses and binding the spring in the bore of the rebound slide. There are a couple of ways to address this. One is to install that trigger stop rod in the smaller frames that don't normally include this feature, however if you install it backwards it will lock the trigger completely depending on how the revolver is oriented. If that happens, flip it end for end. BTW, I could tell you that my memory says that tigger stop needs to be installed with the slightly pointy end towards the pin for the rebound slide but I don't trust my memory on this. I've now taken to adding a lead angle and corner radius to both ends of this stop rod so orientation doesn't matter. The second approach that helps is to fully polish the exterior surface of the rebound spring and the bore for the spring in the rebound slide. BTW, you don't want to over polish these areas, you'll just add clearance that will make spring buckling more of a problem, polish to a shine and then STOP. BTW, you can purchase 1/8 inch bamboo skewers at a grocery store that you can chuck up in a Dremel that work well for polishing the bore in the rebound slide. Finally, a tiny dab of a good gun grease on the rebound spring makes it slide much easier.

Final area to look at with the rebound slide only applies to older revolvers with forged parts. Prior to about 1990 the rebound slides on these guns had all 4 corners on the rebound slide sharp and this can cause "corner drag". The lockwork recess in these revolvers is machined by milling and a worn end mill can leave a small radius in the bottom corners of the recess. When that one sharp corner on the rebound slide contacts this tiny radius it can cause it to dig in and bind. The solution is to add a small chamfer on the one corner of the rebound slide that rides against that bottom corner in the lockwork recess. BTW, this only applies to guns made prior to the use of MIM rebound slides, because the MIM rebound slides have a radius on this corner. BTW, I have a 617 made in 1992 that features an MIM rebound slide with this radius and I believe that the rebound slides were the first MIM parts used by S&W and they predate the full implementation of MIM by a few years. If you have a gun that might be transitional, you'll have to look for that radius on the rebound slide and add this chamfer if all 4 corners are sharp.

As for the minor causes, IMO they aren't worth fussing with because the effect is so small and simple use will resolve it. BTW, I have a 610-3 that has a good rub on the hammer from the Lock and it's so totally stage free that it's darned difficult to stage the trigger on it. I'm not sure why but in my experience a hammer rub just doesn't seem to produce staging in the trigger and I'll admit I'm still scratching my head as to why.

Last edited by scooter123; 11-13-2011 at 09:47 AM.
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  #9  
Old 11-13-2011, 11:48 AM
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629-2.  Double action trigger pull issue. 629-2.  Double action trigger pull issue. 629-2.  Double action trigger pull issue. 629-2.  Double action trigger pull issue. 629-2.  Double action trigger pull issue.  
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Many many thanks!! Mine is an older version but not old enuff to have a pinned barrel . I agree the stage isn't a major prob ... Just after shooting a N frame with no perceptible stage then shooting mine ... Well less is better to me . Thanks again for those new search areas.
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Old 11-13-2011, 12:53 PM
tomcatt51 tomcatt51 is offline
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The "staged" trigger feel you get at the end of the pull is from the hand being slightly too wide and dragging as it goes past the ratchet when the cylinder locks up. If it does it on all the chambers you can stone the left side (center pin side) of the hand tip. The left side of the hand tip that you see protruding thru the recoil shield when you pull the trigger with the cylinder open. You hold the cylinder release back to do this.

If it only does it on a couple chambers you need to stone/file those ratchets individually. It's easy to get confused about which ratchet goes with which chamber.

When the hand and ratchets are fitted to NOT have the "staged" feel you'll notice the cylinder won't lock up (when pulling the trigger very slowly) until right at the point the hammer falls.

Shooting/dry firing the gun will definitely help "even things out" but can take a long time if the ratchets / hand thickness are off very much.
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Old 11-13-2011, 03:09 PM
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629-2.  Double action trigger pull issue. 629-2.  Double action trigger pull issue. 629-2.  Double action trigger pull issue. 629-2.  Double action trigger pull issue. 629-2.  Double action trigger pull issue.  
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Mine definetly stages on all cylinders equally. That totally makes sense ... In DA pull the hand still locks the cyl as with single action.. Only mine is locking it earlier in the pull making a noticeable stage... That's a simpler repair just a matter of stoning reassembling and checking etc etc
Not even a member a day and the imput I've received is top notch.
Thanks again Smokepole60
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