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Old 07-27-2013, 01:41 PM
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Default 11 degree forcing cone cutter

Not really that necessary, but wanted to tinker with my 44s and see how much the tools and cost would be to do the 11 degree cut. I have eight 44 caliber revolvers and thought I'd get my monies worth if all of them were done. Got the brownells basic kit.
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-to...ls/chamfering-

Received the kit and first found out the 1/4"dia. rod extension was to big diameter for the supplied handle with the set screw, well not that much of a problem and just redrill the handle to 1/4" to match the extension rod. OK. Now instructions say to only make two turns with the cutter and check with a forcing cone gauge. Heck, I forgot to get one of them and had to order a 44 cal. gauge to do the job. Few days later, I now have the honing oil and everything needed for this small job.
A pair of Ruger Vaqueros were the first to be done and the first Ruger took two turns and checked out fine with the gauge, checked the second Ruger before cutting and all ready close to max. cut with the gauge so left it alone and will see if it makes any difference with leading which is not horrible,but does get some leading that cleans up pretty easy after a shooting session. Checked the 4- 629s and three were already close to max. cut and one 629 apparently had the forcing cone cut and was too deep with this gauge. These 629s were all used condition when I bought them and all shoot fine. So the S&W guns no cut. Ain't even checked the two Uberti SAA. Now I have close to a $120.00 in this kit and about done with it unless I want to buy gauges for 38 and 45.
Oh well it was fun anyways.
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Old 07-28-2013, 11:12 AM
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I found the complete kit used, but have no gauges.
What the world needs is a gauge swap program..
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Old 07-28-2013, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Step N. Mud View Post
A pair of Ruger Vaqueros were the first to be done and the first Ruger took two turns and checked out fine with the gauge, checked the second Ruger before cutting and all ready close to max. cut with the gauge so left it alone and will see if it makes any difference with leading which is not horrible,but does get some leading that cleans up pretty easy after a shooting session.
On the Rugers the usual (very common) problem isn't the forcing cone but a barrel constriction where the barrel is threaded in the frame. Their "crush fit" really crushes the barrel. You see this occaisionally but more rarely in S&W revolvers. I know this will make some cringe but the "fix" is fire lapping. Beartooth Bullets has a pamplet that covers it really well. It does work and is not detrimental.
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Old 07-28-2013, 12:56 PM
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The gauges are next to worthless and not needed. You just want to break the inside leading edge as well as clean up the forcing cone. You can tell this by feel. If you have never done this then perhaps you need someone to show you how to do it. I've done my own for years and it's difficult to overdo it, however you're not trying to make a blunderbuss. Remember to use a good cutting oil and to back out the tool IN REVERSE now & then if it seems to be chattering, i.e., overloading with chips. After you have gone far enough to remove the roughness then without cutting deeper merely turn the tool lightly to burnish the cut somewhat.


There is another solution for barrel/frame constriction that is called Taylor throating. Some do not subscribe to it, however I have seen it work miracles on some guns.
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Old 07-28-2013, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boge View Post
There is another solution for barrel/frame constriction that is called Taylor throating. Some do not subscribe to it, however I have seen it work miracles on some guns.
Yes there is. My .38/.357s are all Taylor throated. Clymer made the now discontinued reamers. I have the .38 and .45 reamers. Wish I'd bought a .44 reamer also. Know a source? PM me.
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Old 07-28-2013, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by tomcatt51 View Post
...Wish I'd bought a .44 reamer also. Know a source? PM me.

I know a gunsmith in the Midwest who has some, but they are not for sale. He does provide the service however. I sent him an e-mail to see if he has one in .44.
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Old 07-28-2013, 05:46 PM
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Over the years I have opened up a few forcing cones to the coveted 11 degrees and they all work just fine, but honestly..... I can't really see or tell the difference. I was not having a leading problem and only did this (25 years ago) after reading articles written by the so called experts. Certainly no harm, just wondering if it was worth the price of admission.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:17 PM
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This is very interesting to me. New as I am questions my sound silly, but if you don't know ask.

What is the standard angle for the forcing cone? Why was 11 degrees chosen? What effects happen with a forcing cone of a different angle? It was mentioned that Ruger can suffer from thread crush thus reducing and/or causing ripples in the bore, was this one of the reason for S&W to thread and pin their barrels, if it was effective why was it dropped?
I will sit here and wait for the answers.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:50 PM
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I had the forcing cone lengthened to 11 degrees on a 25-10 45 Colt and a Colt saa 45. It helped the Smith some and the Colt took to it like a duck takes to water. It made the Colt a tack driver.

I was told by a great gunsmith that if he lengthened the Model 25-10 out enough to completely clean the forcing cone up, that it could cause the bullet lube to blow off.
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Old 07-28-2013, 10:08 PM
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Ruger forcing cones have been factory cut at 5 degrees. I'm not positive, but have been told, that S&W have cut theirs at 9 degrees.
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Old 07-28-2013, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GBertolet View Post
Ruger forcing cones have been factory cut at 5 degrees. I'm not positive, but have been told, that S&W have cut theirs at 9 degrees.

I was thinking that Rugers are 9 degrees for jacketed bullets(?).


Acutally, the angle is 79 degrees (90 -11=79). Somehow through the years is got misinterpreted.

Joe. A., I did this to a used Colt Diamondback .38 I traded into and the results were literally jaw dropping!! Uberti revolvers have some of the worst forcing cones that I have ever seen. My Ruger .44 Spcl. I bought in 2009 was perfect as were the two Colt FSS's in 44-40 I bought in 2008. Sometimes you get lucky, but more often not.

chief38, to see the physical results shine a light in the muzzle and look at the forcing cone with the cylinder out of the way. You should see polished metal that funnels into the leade of the rifling. This process does not help all revolvers as some simply don't need it. However, it will never make one shoot worse and at the least make it easier to clean. It helps with SOME incidents of "spitting" due to stacking tolerances on cylinder/barrel alignment and/or bad machining. It will not however stop "spitting" totally from 125 gr. .357 Mags. as that has more to do with bullet length & pressure/powder in relationship to other things.
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Old 08-16-2013, 12:26 AM
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Personally, if I were not having any severe leading or accuracy issues I would leave well enough alone. A few modifications done to firearms are much more theoretical and have little practical positive affect. Two of my Colt SAA's have the 11 cut forcing cone and another set of two are Factory. Truth be told I can't see any difference what so ever.
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Old 08-17-2013, 02:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chief38 View Post
...Truth be told I can't see any difference what so ever.

Not every gun needs it, as you have noticed. However, those that do benefit remarkably. Own enough revolvers and eventually you'll need it done. I usually shoot the gun first for accuracy as well as really look over the forcing cone area. Obviously, if the gun has no issues and is a tackdriver there is no reason to gild the lily.
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