Just thinking out loud,

Have read a forum post that states there is a mechanical tool that forces it way thru a new ratchet that forms initial angle. Then you lightly file, if required, until hand slips past ratchet after lock/bring up/battery. Unless you file too much or alter the angle, this seems to be a straight forward simple trial and error process.

If you are fitting a new extractor and no cutting tool, the process seems to be not so exact to establish initial cut angle. The picture in Sticky FAQ seems to use adjacent ratchets as a starting gauge and using trial and error filing that should eventually achieve a working carry up. However, looking at many different extractors, the ratchets have varied shapes and sizes possible allowing up to .001, .002, .003+ variance. You would also have the variance of the file. Maybe pull to the left on one stroke, too much to the right on next stroke, etc. Also observed, checking numerous factory filed guns, this straight line filing between ratchets did not line up. Using a straight line, the line from top ratchet left side to right side of second ratchet to bottom left of third ratchet, the bottom ratchet straight angle target filing edge was actually .004 to .005 inside the cylinder hole.

My thought is there should be an exact proper angle with an exact straight cut parallel to the left side hand window. It seems with the hand being a fixed up/down motion, with a fixed locked in cylinder, with the cylinder rotating on the same axis lock to lock there should be more of an analytical approach to the fitting process of the combined ratchets versus so much trial and uncalculated human error.

As stated in the Sticky FAQ, "One of the very precision specs in an S&W revolver is the hand-to-ratchet clearance. A few thousandths makes the difference between good and bad carry up. You want the hand tip to be touching the ratchet but not binding on it when the trigger is pulled. Basically a zero clearance."

Don't know if there is such an option as blue printing a S&W revolver. If there were, you would think the hand to ratchet specs would be exact hole to hole with some way to measure such tolerance. Seems you could make a jig to lock a cylinder top lock notch to bottom lock notch, measure centerline to left side window and with an adjustable parallel file make the ratchet cut.

It seems as long as the hand brings up to lock, not too slow (no lock-up), not too fast (binding) the minute variance ratchet to ratchet and potential drag of hand on side of ratchet is not an issue.

As important as this subject is and the detail of Jerry Kuhnhausen shop manual, he offered no personal insight or instruction. Only his directives as per page 88, bottom right.

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Mis-Placed Texan!

Painstaking is the word that comes to mind. One of the most difficult parts to fit or repair.....and make work correctly, IMO.

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Ret. LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer

Very time consuming.

+1 Major Pain in the Rear also comes to mind. With alot of opportunity to screw up. I hate doing them. Pretty common for not all chambers to be consistent and just evening them out is a pain...

Can anyone reccomend a file to use on Ratchets? Even if it has to be slightly modified,That is OK with me.

I don't use a file, I use a 3/16" X 3/16 X 2" extra hard Arkansas Stone. It takes me a little longer however I wind up with a burr free job and I like the fact that the stone takes only a little metal at a time so I do not fear taking off too much - can't put it back you know! The small sharp stone gets into all the small areas and I do this under a magnifying lamp. Again I go VERY slowly and deliberately. I did an old Chief's Special about 2 years ago and the results were excellent - works like a charm.

I have a good set of around 50 miniature needle files in all shapes and configurations but just about never use them on guns. I much prefer the extra hard Arkansas on guns.

A 4" or smaller "Barrett" file.

Filing the ratchet isn't difficult if you truly understand how the ratchet and hand work, and you are a careful and skilled mechanic. It is also extremely easy to screw up a ratchet beyond belief or recovery if you are not.

File in the S&W Armorer's kit is a 4" Nicholson, Swiss pattern barrette file, #0 cut. (#1 cut would also work fine) You can't really reach the contact face of the ratchet with anything else.

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Ret. LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer

Jerry Miculek's "Trigger Job" DVD goes into a lot of detail about what surfaces should be cleaned up on the ratchet, and which ones should never be touched with a file or stone at all. He also does a great job of explaining how the hand / ratchet interface works.

+1 .

The "tool" supplied to S&W armorers is made by them. It's basically a trigger (for the appropriate frame) to which a steel lever arm has been attached (welded). A special cutting hand is installed on the trigger.

The tool is used by removing the sideplate and using the cutting hand/arm instead of the regular trigger. Pressing the lever forces the cutting hand to cut the end off each extractor ratchet. You're basically pulling the lever/trigger for each ratchet, snipping off the tip of the ratchets so they align with the side of the hand. Since the cutting hand is precisely aligned where the regular hand is going to be, it gets the extractor ratchets cut pretty close, although some filing (stoning) may be needed, particularly if a long ratchet condition has occurred.

I've only cut a handful of extractors after my revolver armorer class (and they only let us practice cutting 1 extractor during the class).

I had one of my own revolvers in which I wanted to get a little better carry-up, and after trying a couple of incrementally thicker over-size factory hands I didn't like the long ratchets resulting from the use of the pair of over-size hands, nor did I like the tighter fit of one of the hands in the frame's hand window. I found I was better able to get that revolver's carry-up within tighter spec by cutting a new extractor and using the original hand.

Now, while I've been a pistol armorer for some different makes/models for some time, I've only been through one revolver armorer class, so I'm not as experienced with revolvers as I am with a lot of different makes/models of pistols. I like to minimize my potential to cause more problems than I'm actually trying to solve when it comes to revolvers.

I've tried to call either a friend who is the former (retired) revolver armorer for my agency, or the factory techs or a factory revolver armorer instructor, before getting in over my head.

FWIW, I've come across a couple of factory-made cutting "tools" in revolver armorer kits where the weld seam (attaching the trigger & lever bar) had been left a bit too thick to allow the trigger/lever to have full movement & clearance during the cutting process. It won't cut the extractors right without the necessary clearance for full movement. We were warned about this in the class, and were told that an occasional "tool" might need to have a "high" weld spot filed to create the necessary clearance. I've adjusted (filed the seam) on a couple of cutting arm tools where that had occurred.

Bottom line? I'd leave fitting extractor ratchets or cutting new extractors to the factory techs, licensed gunsmiths or the occasional factory-trained armorer (who has preferably done more than the single practice cut/fitting of an extractor in class ). It's a really quick way to damage an existing extractor, or maybe even the frame's hand window (if someone tries to use an over-size hand and incorrectly files the frame, especially on the wrong side of the window ).

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer