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Old 06-15-2014, 08:54 AM
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Default 625-2 converting from 45 to 8 shot 9mm

Hi, felllow S&W adapts!
I am not too familiar with forums but I have a question which I seem not able to solve myself.
Situation: I am shooting ipsc with an 625-2model of 1988. Shot to pieces by the pre-owner but i replaced several items and gave it a full trigger job resulting in 5pound DA at the moment of dropping the hammer.
It seems to be that the 6shot limit is going to be dropped in ipsc for minor shooters, and S&W has the new 929 8shot 9mm.
But ...... my 45 is pre lock and pre MIM and running beyond great.
My idea is to fit a 929 9mm cylinder in the 625 and put on a replacement barrel (with the same weight length and profile of a 627 classic hunter).
Question: I somewhere read that in a 8shot N frame the chambers are on a different diameter than in the standard 6shot. From an engineers point of view I really cann't see why because the frame ain't standard anymore.
Does someone know how it really is, I don't want to step into the new generation unless I have to (can't have both, we have a limit of 5 by state law)
Thanks ahead!
HP

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Old 06-15-2014, 09:03 AM
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Welcome to the Forum.

Most anything is possible if you throw enough money at it. The frame size is the same. If you can obtain a barrel, a cylinder, and prehaps a hand, a good revolver smith can build what you want.

It would probably be cheaper to sell your M625 and buy the 9mm.
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Old 06-15-2014, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muley Gil View Post
Welcome to the Forum.

Most anything is possible if you throw enough money at it. The frame size is the same. If you can obtain a barrel, a cylinder, and prehaps a hand, a good revolver smith can build what you want.

It would probably be cheaper to sell your M625 and buy the 9mm.
I kind of agree with Muley..if you are making it a non interchangeable 9mm why not sell the 625 and buy the newer 9?
The cost will differential is hard to tell as you are on a different continent. I imagine you can get some good money there for a 625 if you are allowed to sell it. Then again it would be pretty cool to build your own. If you do... can you please post a pic or 2.
Good luck and welcome.
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Old 06-15-2014, 10:27 AM
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I have read that the barrel on an 8-shot N-frame is set up a bit higher towards the top strap in the frame--making the frames a bit different.
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Old 06-15-2014, 11:17 AM
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dear all! Thanks for the swift answers. To Jack, thats exactly the rumour I am afraid of. I hope mr Gil is right, looking to his records I am sure he is.
Regarding the finance. Our market is closed and filled up. This will not do much over 350 and I suppose, have to ask, that the 929 goes over 1000.
The conversion is not planned to be irreversable, nothing welded. So I can always get the 9mm barrel out and screw in the 45 again, change cylinders (and the hands).(conversion sets do not count as extra gun, yes I can sell to fellow sportshooters)
Beside finance, I really like the sight of this kind of old school guns, straight forward no fancy curves (massive milled parts inside)
I will try to get a pic on board but I have to resize etc
Regards, HP
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Old 06-15-2014, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackpearl View Post
I have read that the barrel on an 8-shot N-frame is set up a bit higher towards the top strap in the frame--making the frames a bit different.
This is correct. I had a Model28-2 converted to an 8-shot .38 Super back in the mid-90s. The cylinder was the easy part. The new barrel had to be set higher up in the frame to align with the new cylinder. I did not observe the work and the gunsmith who did the conversion has disappeared...with a lot of folks money and guns they had sent him.

It sounds to me the OP knows what he's up against and may want to do the conversion to avoid being required to part with any of his 5 guns. What about migrating to a gun-friendly state in USA?
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Old 06-15-2014, 01:58 PM
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dear Bob, thanks for the trust in my knowledge but you scared me by confirming the barrel is indeed set up higher! I regrouped, mostly . Setting the barrel of center ain't such a miracle. Take a lathe with 4 individualy operated claws and adjust it with the needed excentricity. Plug the barrel at one side and dril a centerhole. Move the barrel out to fully needed length and do the job. It's more or less this way based on a shrouded barrel like the 460 and dan wesson models, but then......
The firing pin needs to be raised too ....... no trick for that. yet.
I looked at some pic's of the new 929 with focus to the forcing cone and it looks like the barrel is indeed off center with the bulge in the frame.
Think I am not going to decide what to do at this moment. In a couple of months there should be some 929's at the local gun store to hold and look at.
I am very curious how the firing pin issue is fixed in your case.

After the technical challenges I'll check with the local ipsc guys to be sure all the effort is not in vain.

best regards

HP
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Old 06-16-2014, 03:09 AM
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dear Bob. I thought it over, my project, it is probably not gonna work. So what is plan B? The new 929 is not giving me warm feelings. I looked for what s&w is offering more on 8shots: the 627v comp, 1330 grams, and a nice straight barrel.
Here comes the question to you. Your model is probably based on a 357mag cyl.
How is accuracy with all the free bore in the cylinder? (or is there some trick to fill the chambers between 38super and 357mag?)
What do you suggest, standard weight 38super bullets or 158gr 357's, slow or fast powder?
I am planning to do some tests with my mod66 and to 38super shortened cases to find out how it works. A jump start would be nice though.
Best regards, HP
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Old 06-16-2014, 10:27 AM
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Hello HP,

I'm just now reading your posts and will get my .38 Super conversion gun out of the safe and do some measuring.

I can tell you the cylinder was not S&W but custom made. The time frame for the conversion was 1996-97 and S&W was not in the game yet. Taurus had an 8-shot 357 back then...Model 608.

I will look at the firing pin placement, free bore in the cylinder and length of barrel extension in the cylinder window.

If you have other questions, post them and I'll check.

Regards,
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Old 06-16-2014, 12:13 PM
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good morning Bob, thanks for the reply and the effort you are willing to put into. I just measured my 625. The distance from center firingpin to inside topstrap is 8,1mm, center barrel to topstrap will be the same I guess. The circular pitch of the chambers is around 27,7mm. (measured outside to outside of 2 chambers across added with inside to inside of 2 chambers across divided by 2). I am very excited what results you will come up with!
BTW nice job that you got a Taurus cylinder in your 28! Years ahead of time!
best regards, HP
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Old 06-16-2014, 01:47 PM
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You will find that it works just fine. And you should be pleased with the accuracy of most any projectile.

Here is one of my 627s that has a second cylinder chambered for 9x23



The moonclips will hold had fire many cartridges
380ACP
9x17
9x19
9x21
9x21.5
356TSW
38ACP
38Super
9x23
etc.

now some of the brass may no longer be suitable for reloading, but it all functions.




The unfluted stainless cylinder is the one that came with the revolver. The black cylinder is a spare 357 Magnum cylinder that came from S&W and was converted by Pinnacle

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Old 06-16-2014, 02:50 PM
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Hi! nice to have a native 627 in this thread! Nice pic's. Here also I tend to see that the barrel is a bit excentric with the bulge in the frame.
Saying that I will be fine, is that with the conversion or do you mean with the ammo? Both is ok. If the conversion is not gonna work it is nice to know the choice of a 627 is backed by good results with almost any ammo you can get into it.
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Old 06-17-2014, 08:00 AM
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If you're wanting to shoot 9mm getting a 627 reamed to 9x23 is the way to go, or buy one of the hard to find 38 Super 627s. Short Colts work well in the .357s. I'll get a 929 when they start making them and most likely retire the .357s. The VComp is nice but it's very heavy to transition and the comp isn't very functional. Also the PC pistols cost a lot more and the triggers suck. I'd buy a standard or Pro series and use that as basis of a build.
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Old 07-29-2015, 02:23 PM
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Dear All, Allmost a year ago I posted this thread concerning the conversion of my 625 to 9mm.
Some of you advised to just buy one, it wasn't that simple, at that time ;-)
A month later it was: my dealer called out of the blue: he had just received a 627-pc :-) It took almost a year to get the deal through but it was worth waiting for. I feel like having a '69 mustang convertible: pre-lock, pre-MIM and still with a lock in front of the cilinder rod/ejectorrod. It must be one of the first!
After teasing you I hope you still want to help me on this one.

My goal is to shoot IPSC with this gun. Therefor I would like to have some more weight at the front end. I plan to replace the barrel by a barrel-and-shroud system. No worries, back to original in 5min!

“Problem”: it has to be same length, weight and form as any original barrel.
Question: I am now looking for weights/dimensions of 6” (maybe 5 ½”) barrels in .357 so I can adjust my design to have that same weight. Total weights of S&W guns or types or dimensions of any gun or barrel will help me. I don’t know all the types of guns, but you do! (And probably own them) The sort of barrel I am looking for is a beefed up full barrel underlug (without comp).
Total wanted weight of my gun: around 1400gram.
I have data on the 627 6shot classic hunter and 686. The 686 competitor is too much. What I am interested in is, for example, a Dan Wesson (715 HV?). Would love to know what those barrels weighs.
My inspiration comes from the 627 v8 comp, but that is a 5”. Is this including the cap at the front? Does someone have the overall length from protection cap to front cylinder?
Looking forward to hear from you, (and see all these amazing collections)
Best regards
HP
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Old 07-29-2015, 03:38 PM
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I own a 627 PC and a 627 V-Comp. I will need to search my safe to find them. Please PM me with exactly what measurements you want. In terms of barrel weight, we keep them light since we are shooting minor. The light weight helps speed transitions.

Also since your thread of last year, I have obtained a new Model 929 which was in quite good condition from the factory(not always the case). I have not used it extensively so my impressions are not complete. The chatter on the Brian Enos forums indicates these 929s are somewhat difficult to get to function well.

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Old 08-02-2015, 01:20 PM
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Old 08-02-2015, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDC5109 View Post
dear Bob, thanks for the trust in my knowledge but you scared me by confirming the barrel is indeed set up higher! I regrouped, mostly . Setting the barrel of center ain't such a miracle. Take a lathe with 4 individualy operated claws and adjust it with the needed excentricity. Plug the barrel at one side and dril a centerhole. Move the barrel out to fully needed length and do the job. It's more or less this way based on a shrouded barrel like the 460 and dan wesson models, but then......
The firing pin needs to be raised too ....... no trick for that. yet.
I looked at some pic's of the new 929 with focus to the forcing cone and it looks like the barrel is indeed off center with the bulge in the frame.
Think I am not going to decide what to do at this moment. In a couple of months there should be some 929's at the local gun store to hold and look at.
I am very curious how the firing pin issue is fixed in your case.

After the technical challenges I'll check with the local ipsc guys to be sure all the effort is not in vain.

best regards

HP

Wondering if you ever did confirm the 8 shot has an offset firing pin and hoe that is accomplished?
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Old 08-03-2015, 05:42 AM
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Hi,

Yes it does have an offset. With some help it turned out to be 1,01mm. Confirmed by a s&w catalogue. I never had to find out if I could fix this. My dealer stumbled over a 8 shot cylinder incl the frame .... and the rest of the gun ;-). If he only had found a cylinder I probably would have picked up the chalange

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Old 08-11-2015, 03:23 PM
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During the short period Smith was making eight-shot Model 27s- the 27-8- I called Smith and got connected to a fellow who seemed to be either a gunsmith in the custom shop or someone otherwise knowledgeable.
They had just sold the very last 27-8 cylinder they had in the parts department, which I was seeking to convert my beloved 1973 Model 28 to eight-shot for ICORE competition.
However, this gentleman told me that the chamber centers were 0.50" greater on the eight-shooters than the six-shooters and therefore, the conversion would be nigh impossible.
In other words, the chambers are further from the axis of the cylinder in the eights than the sixes.
That sounded impossible to solve so I abandoned the idea.
While my local dealer at one point had three new 27-8s in stock, I dallied too long and the all sold before I could get one.
To my everlasting regret!
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Old 08-11-2015, 04:04 PM
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I'm still wondering in the back of my feeble mind about this text included in the original messange from the OP ??

"gave it a full trigger job resulting in 5pound DA at the moment of dropping the hammer."

Wow....quite an achievement if it still goes "bang".
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Old 08-11-2015, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CherryRiver View Post
During the short period Smith was making eight-shot Model 27s- the 27-8- I called Smith and got connected to a fellow who seemed to be either a gunsmith in the custom shop or someone otherwise knowledgeable.
They had just sold the very last 27-8 cylinder they had in the parts department, which I was seeking to convert my beloved 1973 Model 28 to eight-shot for ICORE competition.
However, this gentleman told me that the chamber centers were 0.50" greater on the eight-shooters than the six-shooters and therefore, the conversion would be nigh impossible.
In other words, the chambers are further from the axis of the cylinder in the eights than the sixes.
That sounded impossible to solve so I abandoned the idea.
While my local dealer at one point had three new 27-8s in stock, I dallied too long and the all sold before I could get one.
To my everlasting regret!
Charlie Prest of RPM gunsmith shop did a conversion for me of a Model 28-2 in the years 1996-97 to an 8-shooter. In order to do so, he had to install a new barrel which sits higher in the frame to accommodate the custom 8-shot cylinders he also made. I may have been one of the last of his customers to get a gun from him. I still have the gun and it runs but I prefer the 8-shot Smiths from the factory. A friend here in Iowa has at least 2 of the 27-8s.
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Old 08-11-2015, 04:37 PM
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I'm still wondering in the back of my feeble mind about this text included in the original messange from the OP ??

"gave it a full trigger job resulting in 5pound DA at the moment of dropping the hammer."

Wow....quite an achievement if it still goes "bang".
This is indeed possible but requires handloads with Federal primers which are set as deeply as possible in the case. Apex Tactical can do the trigger job but may not go as low as 5#. The tricky part is making sure the gun has good trigger reset.
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Old 08-11-2015, 04:41 PM
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Impressive to say the least.

Been at it 40+ years, and even on the PPC "DA only" guns I've built, I've never achieved that number.
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Old 08-21-2015, 03:47 PM
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Hi guys,

sorry for the late reply. It is some over 2 kg at the end. Good enough trigger rebound for IPSC ( if you're not JM, he is too fast). SA is still over 1360grams. Normal reloader ammo from Dillon RL 550B, indeed with Federal 100. But no special tricks.

It is all in the adjustements of the parts.

regards,

HP
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Old 08-25-2017, 12:09 PM
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Hi guys,

It has been a long time ago, how are you doing? Hope you are all fine.

It is some years ago that I started this thread/project.
After I finally got the gun it took serieus time engeneering the shroud. Milling it took months too. It was a side job, going wrong a couple of times with big commercial jobs in between. After that the smith needed his time to get the barrel in. He has no experience with this kind of work but is a serieus craftsman, he sure did a perfect job.
I got it back just a few months ago. It shoots good with almost anything but I want to test more. You might have read that already in another thread not long ago.

Now I only want to do my thing on the inside, getting it as smooth as my old gun. For most parts I have doubles, except for the hammer. This job will render the hammer in a far from original state. So I am looking for a stand-in to work on. I already mailed/called Numrich to sell me their scrap: I don't need a NIB hammer, one with a "bad tuning job" or totally worn will do fine. Numrich said no. Too much paperwork. If you have an idea to get my hands on a pre-mim pre-lock hammer for a floating firingpin, I'll be happy to hear.

But, for now:
Please find attached a picture of the result: 1450grams of .357!

Thanks to all who helped me to get this made!

Best regards, HP
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  #26  
Old 08-25-2017, 05:50 PM
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In terms of the "scrap" hammer, Ebay should have what you need.
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  #27  
Old 09-06-2017, 05:59 AM
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Default E bay scrap hammer

Dear Armorer,

Thanks for the tip.
I surfed E-bay a couple of times but all I get is an old trigger for a 1905model.
I wonder if I surfed the right E-bay.com

I did find some Cutts compensator shokes that I would have liked to buy but both parties where not interested in shipping outside USA. Not such a problem, I know a good smith with a lath.

But, before I turn the web up-side-down, when I find a hammer, is it a restricted part to sent out of the states?

Best regards,

HP
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  #28  
Old 09-06-2017, 08:29 AM
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I don't believe the internals like hammers and triggers are restricted. Hope you are able to find what you need.
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