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  #51  
Old 11-09-2015, 06:07 PM
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Wow, that's pathetic! I guess another GS bites the dust!
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  #52  
Old 11-09-2015, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapworth View Post
Very sorry for the update; what an nuisance.

It's unclear to me if Clarke's in no longer turning barrels back altogether, or if there was something specific to your Model 28 that put them off the fix?

I don't know of any S&W revolversmiths in Houston, but Briley's -- which if I recall has a good reputation in shotgun world -- does offer revolver services. I'd give them a call.

Otherwise, in Texas the two places I'd look at are LSG, Inc. in Comanche (S&W factory warranty station that is said to do it all), or Ten Ring Precision in San Antonio.

Good luck and keep us posted...
He told me they just don't do rollbacks all together anymore. Said they had problems doing it with other guns. If it was a particular problem with my gun he didn't say so.

Last edited by Doug.38PR; 11-10-2015 at 11:38 AM.
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  #53  
Old 11-10-2015, 11:50 PM
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I just emailed smith and Wesson support and see who/what they recommend
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  #54  
Old 11-11-2015, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
I just emailed smith and Wesson support and see who/what they recommend
To be honest, this is what you should have done all along plus I would have called them at their 800 number instead of e-mailing. It's faster and once in awhile e-mails aren't handled correctly.

Bruce

Last edited by BruceM; 11-11-2015 at 12:47 AM.
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  #55  
Old 11-11-2015, 11:36 AM
Doug.38PR Doug.38PR is offline
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Well, I've heard smith and Wesson aren't what they used to be
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  #56  
Old 11-11-2015, 12:59 PM
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there's a lot of things in the world that aren't what they use to be.

If you can't find someone to turn it, replace the bbl., just suggesting, and good luck.
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  #57  
Old 11-12-2015, 09:35 AM
Doug.38PR Doug.38PR is offline
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And I used to think colt revolvers were trouble to have wirk done on them. Heck it's all revolvers. Even the "simpler" smith and wessons.
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  #58  
Old 11-12-2015, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Well, I've heard smith and Wesson aren't what they used to be
Apparently Jimmy Clarke's Gunsmithing isn't either. Most of the revolver guys in the Performance Center are pretty good. There are some old timers there who understand what Smith & Wesson used to be. The guys in their service dept. may have a couple of "parts assemblers" mixed in but their CS is better than most.

Obviously, you get to do what you wish BUT if you'd have sent it to the Mother Ship, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation right now and you wouldn't be light gas money and your travel time.

Bruce

Last edited by BruceM; 11-12-2015 at 11:34 PM.
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  #59  
Old 11-13-2015, 08:13 AM
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I have a model 28-2 that I am going to be pulling the barrel and cylinder from and making it into a 45 Colt. Its a good 4" barrel. Barrels, both 4 and 6" for 28s show up on Ebay regularly for $60 and up. Would probably fit right and give you an improved gap without needing the shoulder cut back. MOST of the time that is the case but not all. If the gap turns out to tight that is an easy fix for some one with the right tools. I have a setup. If you were closer I would invite you over for a day and we we could fix it up. With the right tools its not that hard, just a lot of patience and time. You would have to provide the test ammo. I don't work on guns for money. I mostly just do my own stuff to get what I want.

Bummer that you are having problems finding someone do do this. It is really sucks that this was caused by an idiot calling himself a gunsmith in the first place. A good man with the right files can do a lot of great work. A idiot with one can really mess stuff up. He should have first checked and fixed any endshake before messing with the gap. If you do have endshake it can let the cylinder move forward to drag on the barrel. Probably the original problem before he got heavy handed with a file.

Last edited by steelslaver; 11-13-2015 at 08:26 AM.
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  #60  
Old 11-22-2015, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug.38PR View Post
They told me it wouldn't be a cheap fix. About $175
Well take this for what it's worth. Up here where I'm from IF you could find a competent gunsmith and IF he knew anything about revolvers it would cost at least double what you were quoted.
Sounds like you just need to decide if the price of fixing is worth it to.

Last edited by Carrier; 11-22-2015 at 04:32 PM.
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  #61  
Old 11-22-2015, 05:04 PM
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I'm a professional gunsmith (Northern Magnetic LLC, Fredonia WI Northern Magnetic - Site Under Construction) flintsghost is correct. barrel needs to be setback or new barrel installed. Cylinder can't be moved forward to reduce gap, duh, that increases headspace. I qualify cylinder/barrel gap correctly and have the barrel fixtures for lathe and the experience. flintsghost says truth.
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  #62  
Old 02-21-2017, 11:53 PM
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Okay, I know it's been over a year since I posted this thread. I was going to send it to S&W after the Clarke's fiasco but my line of work took a turn for the worst (I'm in the Oil & Gas industry) last year and I had to hold.

Well, I talked to S&W again and I believe the gentleman on the phone said factory standard was between .004-010 (I wasn't able to write it down). He took down my name, number and address and even sent me a prepaid Fed Ex shipping label. Said to include a note on the subject and they'd get me taken care of and send me a bill.

I'm not going to clutter the note asking for specific measurements, just to ask to get it as low as they can within factory standards so as to not to complicate things and cause problems. Hopefully it will be closer to .004 than .010 but anything will be better than .018. I'm going to send it out tomorrow
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  #63  
Old 02-22-2017, 04:27 AM
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I have to be honest here and say that IMO, you're more hung up on a number (ie .004" vs .006") than actually getting the problem corrected. The odds are that when you get the gun back from Smith, it will function just fine. I would suggest to you that the first thing I would do is check the gun for lead and powder spitting thru the B/C gap and skip measuring with the feeler gauges. Check it for accuracy. Also, JFYI, if the gun was shaving jacket material, the odds are that you have a timing issue also or run-out in the ejector rod assembly. Those issues are not resolved by opening up the B/C gap. IMO opinion, if the gunsmith who did the original repair on the gun thought the "fix" was opening up the B/C gap to .018"-I would say he was a moron except for the fact it would be insulting to those afflicted with that life difficulty.

Anyway, S&W will go thru the whole gun and bring everything back to normal.

Bruce

P.S. The B/C gap and barrel length are not the only thing which affect velocity so the comparison between a 4" Colt and this Smith means little to nothing in the grand scheme of things. Other things can be a (or THE) major determining factor such as groove diameter, bore fouling or lack of it, general bore smoothness and even forcing cone angle.

Last edited by BruceM; 02-22-2017 at 04:53 AM.
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  #64  
Old 02-22-2017, 08:18 AM
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Doug, it's been quite an odyssey for you and your Model 28. Thanks for keeping this (and us) updated. Please let us know the final outcome, and after all you went through, I hope it comes back with a .004 gap and everything else brought up to snuff.

One take away from this ordeal is that people who maintain the older guns were better aren't entirely right. They had their share of problems too, but the internet wasn't around then for people to make their complaints known.

Also, I think your experience with Clark can be explained in the newer business model that many people are accepting, which is to focus on quick, easy and profitable jobs and turn away the more intensive and possibly problematic jobs. It's sad, but I've seen it in play in more than just the qunsmithing trade.
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  #65  
Old 02-22-2017, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceM View Post
I have to be honest here and say that IMO, you're more hung up on a number (ie .004" vs .006") than actually getting the problem corrected. The odds are that when you get the gun back from Smith, it will function just fine. I would suggest to you that the first thing I would do is check the gun for lead and powder spitting thru the B/C gap and skip measuring with the feeler gauges. Check it for accuracy. Also, JFYI, if the gun was shaving jacket material, the odds are that you have a timing issue also or run-out in the ejector rod assembly. Those issues are not resolved by opening up the B/C gap. IMO opinion, if the gunsmith who did the original repair on the gun thought the "fix" was opening up the B/C gap to .018"-I would say he was a moron except for the fact it would be insulting to those afflicted with that life difficulty.

Anyway, S&W will go thru the whole gun and bring everything back to normal.

Bruce

P.S. The B/C gap and barrel length are not the only thing which affect velocity so the comparison between a 4" Colt and this Smith means little to nothing in the grand scheme of things. Other things can be a (or THE) major determining factor such as groove diameter, bore fouling or lack of it, general bore smoothness and even forcing cone angle.
I'm surprised it took this long before someone commented on timing issues. Seems like this thread was wrapped around the issue of the B/C gap. Looking forward to hearing about the solution.
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  #66  
Old 02-22-2017, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceM View Post
I have to be honest here and say that IMO, you're more hung up on a number (ie .004" vs .006") than actually getting the problem corrected.

And that's exactly why I just said in the letter: I believe your representative told me standard was between .004-.010.
Please close the gap as much as possible within factory standards.


I also ask them to check for other things, like timing problems or anything else that might affect the accuracy, velocity or proper function of the gun.

I also ask them to not adjust the action or trigger of the gun as I was satisfied as is. (wouldn't want them to make the old school S&W action into a modern tight clunky S&W action.)
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  #67  
Old 02-22-2017, 02:29 PM
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Doug, I sent my old 27-2 back in 2015 or so and had it get a good tuneup. It had over 30K rounds through it and had some end shake and some throat erosion, as well as being a little slow on timing on a cylinder too. I sent it back to S&W and they cut the shoulder back a turn, changed out the cylinder stop, rebound slide and hand and took the end shake out of cylinder. IIRC, all that and shipping from my house and back to me cost somewhere around $200. When I got my old 27 back it felt like a new gun and shoots very well. I didn't check the cylinder gap when I received it back, but it looked pretty tight. It's probably had another thousand rounds or so through it since then and it shoots good, with no spitting or other problems. I just checked the cylinder gap and a .006 passes easy and a .007 has to be forced to go through, so I am figuring it's around a .0065. I'm very happy with the job that S&W did on tuning up my old 27-2, which I bought new back in 1974.

Hopefully you will receive the same quality service I received.
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  #68  
Old 02-22-2017, 02:58 PM
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Interesting gunsmithing points bought out in this thread.
While I did not read it originally, ( I don't think), I am glad it was brought back up yesterday with an update. (Gun to S&W).

I hope Doug.38PR will update us again upon receipt of his gun. I expect it will return in "like-new" condition; meaning like-new the way it was when originally made.

I am a little surprised it wasn't mentioned earlier, and I know this will have no bearing on your ill treatment at Clark's, but I noticed the date the gun was given to Clark's was 10/24/15.
At that time the owner operator of Clark's, Jim Clark jr. had about 36 days to live. He died of cancer 12/5/15...Not playing the sympathy-card here, we all die. Mostly sooner than later.

His father, Jim senior who started the company died in 2000. I have no connection at all to this company, but was surprised when I read that Clark's would even work on a S&W, or any revolver for that matter.
It was my impression their work was on the 1911 type semi-autos only.

Nevertheless, if they took the work in, examined it enough to quote a price, and then weeks later rejected the job I can see why you were irate about it.

To me, while I can't help out with your expenses, and distract from your dissatisfaction with Clark's, I can, with 20-20 hindsight,maybe understand what went on. With no "honcho", many shops founder.
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  #69  
Old 02-22-2017, 08:02 PM
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Doug, I sent my old 27-2 back in 2015 or so and had it get a good tuneup. It had over 30K rounds through it and had some end shake and some throat erosion, as well as being a little slow on timing on a cylinder too. I sent it back to S&W and they cut the shoulder back a turn, changed out the cylinder stop, rebound slide and hand and took the end shake out of cylinder. IIRC, all that and shipping from my house and back to me cost somewhere around $200. When I got my old 27 back it felt like a new gun and shoots very well. I didn't check the cylinder gap when I received it back, but it looked pretty tight. It's probably had another thousand rounds or so through it since then and it shoots good, with no spitting or other problems. I just checked the cylinder gap and a .006 passes easy and a .007 has to be forced to go through, so I am figuring it's around a .0065. I'm very happy with the job that S&W did on tuning up my old 27-2, which I bought new back in 1974.

Hopefully you will receive the same quality service I received.
Glad to hear it. That is encouraging. I can't remember if I mentioned this, but in addition to widing the force cone gap, the "gunsmith" that originally worked on this gun when I got it also widened the force cone throat a little to, supposedly, give the gun a little more accuracy. I hope this didn't, in fact, mess up anything. If it did, I hope S&W can correct it.

I do hope S&W pays attention to my note and does not retune the 1977 original action to current tight and clunky 2017 S&W standards...

...hey...I just realized my gun turns 40 this year. I'll double check my history letter I got for it two years ago and see the exact date.
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Old 02-22-2017, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by rog8732 View Post
Interesting gunsmithing points bought out in this thread.
While I did not read it originally, ( I don't think), I am glad it was brought back up yesterday with an update. (Gun to S&W).

I hope Doug.38PR will update us again upon receipt of his gun. I expect it will return in "like-new" condition; meaning like-new the way it was when originally made.

I am a little surprised it wasn't mentioned earlier, and I know this will have no bearing on your ill treatment at Clark's, but I noticed the date the gun was given to Clark's was 10/24/15.
At that time the owner operator of Clark's, Jim Clark jr. had about 36 days to live. He died of cancer 12/5/15...Not playing the sympathy-card here, we all die. Mostly sooner than later.

His father, Jim senior who started the company died in 2000. I have no connection at all to this company, but was surprised when I read that Clark's would even work on a S&W, or any revolver for that matter.
It was my impression their work was on the 1911 type semi-autos only.

Nevertheless, if they took the work in, examined it enough to quote a price, and then weeks later rejected the job I can see why you were irate about it.

To me, while I can't help out with your expenses, and distract from your dissatisfaction with Clark's, I can, with 20-20 hindsight,maybe understand what went on. With no "honcho", many shops founder.

Thank you, Sir for pointing this out. I'm sorry to hear of their passing, I know working on guns is a distant second priority when you're dealing with the loss or preparing for the loss of a loved one.

But it was a complete 180 in their confidence and statement to me about being able to handle it. Like I said I called them and talked to them before I even brought the gun 2 hours there and back.

But anyway, it's water under the bridge, the gun is now on it's way to Springfield, Massachussetts at S&W and the late Mr. and Mr. Clarke's company is free to be a 1911smith only. (BTW, I noticed when I first dropped my gun off there they did have a nice collection of S&W M-10 heavy barrels and Remington 870 Police Magnums or Express Magnums that they had bought from the Bienville Parish Sheriff's inventory)

Last edited by Doug.38PR; 02-22-2017 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 03-02-2017, 03:16 PM
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Wow. SW sent me an email today with a pdf letter tellibg me my item was recieved being processed and they would be in touch. Getting pretty up to date rather than using snailmail.
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Old 04-11-2017, 06:23 PM
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Exclamation Just got my 629 back from S&W warranty repair.

I just got my 629 back from Smith and Wesson Warranty repair to fix a dinged muzzle crown with burrs on the lands and a negative sear engagement.
The muzzle repair was flawless ( I think they replaced the barrel ) and the trigger is fixed and with a 3 pound pull with no creep. Very nicely done. Obviously done by someone that knew what they were doing! Bravo.
BUT
I used a feeler gauge to check the gap between the forcing cone and the cylinder and found that while the the .006 gauge slides in fairly easily the .007 gauge also will slide in but only on the left side. The Gap is wider on one side than the other.

Also I noticed that the residue from their test firing looked different on the .007 side that the .006 side. Looked like streaking. How would I check for proper cylinder alignment on lockup? Is that something I could actually see with a flashlight? ( Weapon unloaded of course...)

Is this something I should worry about

I would have thought they would have checked this.....

I have heard that Cylinder and slide is quite good but a Loooong wait.

Last edited by hassiman; 04-11-2017 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 04-11-2017, 07:19 PM
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I am surprised nobody mentioned Frank Glenn for the job. He is one of the most competent gunsmiths left. As long as he is working, I wouldn't even think of anywhere else.

You would've had to ship the gun to Arizona, but you would have had that model 28 back in your hands within two weeks I bet, just like new. A friendly FFL would cut shipping cost down substantially too.

He did some repairs on my 629 and it was literally a 6 business day turnaround from PA to AZ and back. He is also probably the last 'master' Colt smith still practicing.

Good luck with S&W. I hope they finally put this issue to rest.
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Old 04-11-2017, 07:21 PM
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Does he have a website?
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Old 04-11-2017, 07:28 PM
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Yes, he does.......

Frank Glenn-Glenn Custom Complete Gunsmithing Service Glendale AZ
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Old 07-31-2017, 10:51 PM
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Well, hard to believe its been two years. But ive finally got the gun sent to SW earlier this year and just got it back today. They charged me for closing cylinder gap and recutting cone. I havent had the chance to look at tge gun, but i have been able to review paperwork sent back. A lot of jibberish to me. Comments include: "cylinder hits barrel". (What?). "Charge for closing Cylinder gap". Evaluate/repair. Several references to "ghost material" in reference to gun. A lot if abbreviations tgrown together. I noticed they didnt note any test firing before sending back. Thought that unusual.

My wife said "they wrapped the gun up real pretty"

I just hope they repaired it completely and restored it to functioning condition. Ill have a chance later to actually examine the gun

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Old 08-02-2017, 10:54 AM
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This guy knows his stuff and what you are requesting is on his page of offered services.

Pinnacle High Performance.

Services - Pinnacle High PerformancePinnacle High Performance
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Old 08-05-2017, 10:43 AM
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Just checked the gun...

I sent it off for half a year to be fixed and it came back with a new ejector rod and the cylinder barrel gap is the same. I just measured it. Its still .018. IOW: they didn't fix the problem (yes they analyzed it and charged me for clising cylinder and barrel gap)

I am royally...

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Old 08-05-2017, 10:15 PM
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I find this hard to believe BUT I suppose anything is possible. I would e-mail CS with a photo of the gun with a .018" feeling gauge in the BC gap attached to the e-mail and see what they have to say.

Bruce

Last edited by BruceM; 08-06-2017 at 06:26 PM.
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  #80  
Old 08-06-2017, 12:25 AM
snowman snowman is offline
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Cylinder gap on Highway Patrolman M28  
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Doug,

About all I can say tonight is that I'm so sorry you've had to endure all this -I'm afraid this latest revelation would give me a major blood pressure spike and maybe worse, were I in your shoes.

My best wishes for a resolution,
Andy
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  #81  
Old 08-09-2017, 10:59 PM
Doug.38PR Doug.38PR is offline
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The Customer Service rep and S&W was nice about it. Ask me if there was any filing on the force cone. I told him no and it looked just the same as the day it left me. The gap was still .018. It didn't understand what happened. Said to send it back and they would try to move me to the front as I everything was paid for already.

It's on it's way back with a note on the paperwork as instructed. Should be ok now.
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