Smith & Wesson Forum

Advertise With Us Search
Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Ammunition-Gunsmithing > S&W-Smithing

Notices

S&W-Smithing Maintenance, Repair, and Enhancement of Smith & Wesson and Other Firearms.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-09-2016, 09:03 AM
smoky38 smoky38 is offline
Member
model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding  
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: E Tenn.
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Liked 14 Times in 6 Posts
Default model 64-1 cylinder binding

I am new to the forum so if this has been covered recently please direct me to the thread.
I purchased this 64-1 that has been converted to a PPC competition gun. Has extra heavy slab side bull barrel with Aristra Crat sight bar, trigger work and a very nice black finish. I have been shooting mostly wadcutters but a few standard rounds just to check the accuracy. It was fine with the first 200 rounds or so but now the cylinder seems to bind with the barrel when trying to pull the hammer. Its difficult to get a .004 feeler gauge in, even when pulling back on the cylinder. There is no perceivable front to back movement with the cylinder locked in place.
Any thoughts ?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-09-2016, 09:15 AM
K-framer K-framer is offline
Member
model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Eastern US
Posts: 374
Likes: 1
Liked 315 Times in 123 Posts
Default

It may seem pedantic, but, have you cleaned the gun after that first 200 rounds ? Carbon builds up on the face of the cylinder (of a revolver) when fired. If your 64-1 has a tight cylinder to forcing cone clearance, carbon build-up could easily cause the binding problem.

Check for black carbon rings around the charge holes, on the front of the cylinder, if you haven't already. If you have a build-up, remove it. There's a good chance that this is the problem.

A black-finished gun, as you describe, will make it much harder to see the build-up when it occurs.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-09-2016, 09:16 AM
g8rb8 g8rb8 is offline
Member
model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,566
Likes: 5,443
Liked 2,921 Times in 1,222 Posts
Default

A 0.004 cylinder gap is snug.

Is there enough carbon build up on the forcing cone to cause binding of the front of the cylinder against the forcing cone. If so a cleaning of the forcing cone and front of the cylinder would help.

I suggest checking the gap between the cylinder and forcing cone on each side and if different you may have a bent yoke.

Are you able to easily open and close the cylinder? If not the ejector rod may be loose and need to be tightened (screwed in).

Are cartridges binding between the cylinder and the recoil shield on one side. Load with spent cartridges and check. If so, then a bent yoke is likely.
__________________
Scoundrel & Ne'er-Do-Well
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-09-2016, 09:24 AM
steelslaver's Avatar
steelslaver steelslaver is offline
US Veteran
model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding  
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central Montana
Posts: 13,701
Likes: 12,849
Liked 39,435 Times in 10,034 Posts
Default

Have you cleaned it real well. Pay attention to the rear of the forcing cone, the face of the cylinder and under and around the extractor star. Make sure you eject empties with muzzle up as it helps keep firing debris out from under star. Even a little debris under the star makes the cylinder assembly a bit longer and makes it press harder against the recoil shield and makes the cylinder press forward toward the forcing cone and yoke. A little lead/carbon built up on the forcing cone and cylinder faces can also cause drag. With 3 spaced empties in the cylinder check to make sure the ejector rod is tight. A S&W of this era has left hand threads on the ejector.

This gun was setup for competition shooting and probably has minimum clearances and will need to be cleaned often.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-09-2016, 10:42 AM
Pisgah Pisgah is offline
Member
model 64-1 cylinder binding  
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 3,447
Likes: 37
Liked 5,430 Times in 1,761 Posts
Default

I'll add this suggestion, and it's something that should be checked first with any S&W revolver that begins to bind, or if the cylinder becomes hard to swing out -- check to be sure the ejector rod is screwed all the way in. And remember, it's left-hand threads, meaning that you have to turn counterclockwise to tighten.
__________________
Pisgah
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-09-2016, 10:51 AM
ontargetagain ontargetagain is offline
Member
model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding  
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: North Central Ohio
Posts: 921
Likes: 862
Liked 597 Times in 332 Posts
Default

Try pulling the trigger back just enough to drop the cylinder stop out of engagement and see if the cylinder while holding the trigger carefully in that position will rotate freely.........it should. If it does rotate freely you may have the hand binding on its upward travel.
You didn't by chance change grips did you? If so you may have a bind against the main spring where the grip screw passes through.

Karl
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-09-2016, 11:54 AM
chief38's Avatar
chief38 chief38 is offline
Member
model 64-1 cylinder binding  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 17,800
Likes: 7,843
Liked 25,706 Times in 8,686 Posts
Default

Remove FRONT SCREW & remove Cylinder & Yoke. Disassemble Cylinder from Yoke, clean both thoroughly. Flood hole where EJ goes into Cylinder with Rig #2, Remoil, or similar (a very thin cleaner and lubricant) blow out with compressed air or just shake thoroughly, reassemble everything. This might just do it! No need to completely remove all carbon from face of Cylinder, but make sure you have no heavy lead build-up. If you do, take some off but don't get too crazy trying to remove every last bit of Carbon.

Last edited by chief38; 01-09-2016 at 11:55 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-09-2016, 06:19 PM
smoky38 smoky38 is offline
Member
model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding  
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: E Tenn.
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Liked 14 Times in 6 Posts
Default

great info, thanks. i had considered the carbon or lead build up as most of you mentioned but I did recheck to be sure. I used a scraper to check the forcing cone and did find a very small amount of build up. Nothing on the cylinder and the ejector star looks clean with no build up behind it. The cyl. swings easily and turns free when pulling the trigger a little as described. The ejector rod is tight and it has a bottom grip screw mod. I don't think this gun was ever used in competition but built and put into a collection. After all this, I noticed that that it would cycle really well in DA but when pulling the hammer back it would bind most times, but not every time. Paying better attention, it seems the hammer may be binding rather than the cylinder. I doused it with gun oil and seemed to improve things but still binding sometimes. Maybe I should pull the side plate and have a look ?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-09-2016, 11:14 PM
ontargetagain ontargetagain is offline
Member
model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding  
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: North Central Ohio
Posts: 921
Likes: 862
Liked 597 Times in 332 Posts
Default

If binding when pulling hammer back may be interference with return spring housing hitting against mainspring. Yes, pull side plate, and slowly pull back hammer and watch travel of return spring housing possibly hitting against mainspring.
Certainly if cylinder is spinning freely with partial pull of trigger with cylinder lock dropped it is not the cylinder binding on forcing cone. Pulling hammer back manually is more travel than hammer goes through with a double action pull.
Most often these competition guns are DA only. Does this gun cock with a single action pull back of the hammer?
Karl
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-09-2016, 11:56 PM
metalman60 metalman60 is offline
Member
model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 67
Likes: 10
Liked 23 Times in 16 Posts
Default cylinder binding

.004 gap is tight, but it is not your problem. Check for any deposits between the cylinder and forcing cone.
Other than that, it sounds like you have a bent crane. Any good gunsmith can install a new crane assembly and fit it to your gun.
You can also ship it to Smith and Wesson, they will the best source for fixing your problem.

Good Luck
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-10-2016, 01:34 PM
smoky38 smoky38 is offline
Member
model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding model 64-1 cylinder binding  
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: E Tenn.
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Liked 14 Times in 6 Posts
Default 64-1 binding cyl

Quote:
Originally Posted by ontargetagain View Post
If binding when pulling hammer back may be interference with return spring housing hitting against mainspring. Yes, pull side plate, and slowly pull back hammer and watch travel of return spring housing possibly hitting against mainspring.
Certainly if cylinder is spinning freely with partial pull of trigger with cylinder lock dropped it is not the cylinder binding on forcing cone. Pulling hammer back manually is more travel than hammer goes through with a double action pull.
Most often these competition guns are DA only. Does this gun cock with a single action pull back of the hammer?
Karl
This gun will cock with pulling the hammer back and I do shoot it this way. I think, in the police pistol competition it was fired in DA only. Its possible that it was meant to be fired in DA only and I am doing something that was not meant to be by firing in SA. Not sure, just thinking. I will pull the side plate and have a look. I have the full set of gunsmith kinks books from Brownells so maybe something there I can reference.
Thanks again for all the feedback and a pic of the gun added

Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Model 60 Lady Smith cylinder binding wyomick S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 4 02-02-2015 07:31 PM
Model 60 Cylinder Binding? jimro S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 2 04-02-2014 10:22 PM
S&W Model 63 cylinder binding sdk S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 21 12-30-2013 08:05 PM
Model 17 (no dash) cylinder binding- ejector rod? RMF S&W-Smithing 2 08-08-2012 02:45 AM
Frustration--Model 34-1 Cylinder Binding HAM S&W-Smithing 16 08-01-2010 10:22 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:29 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)