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S&W-Smithing Maintenance, Repair, and Enhancement of Smith & Wesson and Other Firearms.


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  #101  
Old 06-19-2019, 11:51 PM
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A big THANK YOU to Marylander. He loaned me his reamer and I reamed the chambers of my little 9-shot High Standard Double 9.

I got about the same amount of metal out of my 9 chambers as what PzKfW5 shows in this photo from the post that started this thread (though not as much as he shows in his final photo in that first post)
[/quote]

I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet but I'm pretty darned confident that the "get-me-a-hammer" extraction problem is solved.

New rounds that used to have to be pushed into the cylinder with my thumb just drop right in ALL the way to the rim now - and they all fall out together at once - just by turning the cylinder upside down now. No need to even touch the ejector rod.

Like so many others, I was really surprised at how much the reamer removed from the cylinders. However, I didn't end up with the the sharp ridge in the throat area of my cylinder like others have shown in some of the posted photos.

I don't know if that is indicative of how much more they reamed out of theirs, or if it is just a minor difference in the reamers?

Anyhow, I can't wait to shoot it again now. Once again, THANKS Marylander , your reamer will be packed up and shipped back to you on Friday with a tracking number provided via PM.

Last edited by BC38; 06-19-2019 at 11:53 PM.
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  #102  
Old 01-20-2020, 11:00 AM
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I hate to dig up an old thread but I guess it's better than starting a new one. For those who have finish reamed the chambers on a Smith 17-18, do you re-blue the chambers or leave them bare?

If you do leave them bare, what precautions do you take to prevent rust?

Thanks
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  #103  
Old 01-20-2020, 11:45 AM
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I just left mine bare. Every time it is cleaned, there is always solvent/oil residue on the chamber walls.
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  #104  
Old 01-20-2020, 01:48 PM
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Leave bare. Assuming you clean after shooting it and wipe a little oil in the chambers. Just make sure to use plenty of cutting oil when doing the reaming.
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  #105  
Old 01-21-2020, 10:27 AM
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I'm going to buy a finish reamer from Manson for my machinist friend to do the job. Solid or removable pilot?
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  #106  
Old 01-21-2020, 11:44 AM
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Save some money, and get the solid pilot. You are only going to turn it by hand, and getting the live pilot would be overkill for this application.
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  #107  
Old 01-22-2020, 09:09 AM
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I may wait on the chamber reamer. I fired 100 rounds last night, CCI SV and didn't have any trouble with extraction. I may shoot some more in the next couple days with other ammo to see if that has any effect.

Thanks for the guidance.
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  #108  
Old 02-01-2020, 12:51 PM
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Default Oil for reaming

You can use the oil that Home Depot sells for threading pipe. It is a cutting oil loaded with sulfur.
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  #109  
Old 05-04-2020, 08:46 PM
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Default Any negative consequences?

Hello all. First post here but frequent reader. Just wondering if there are any downsides to reaming a cylinder on an older, somewhat collectible S&W? I've been thinking about doing this to my 1952 K22, my 17-2, and my 617-1. All exhibit difficult extraction after a few cylinders full have been fired. Just last week I had trouble with my K22 after only the second cylinder of Norma Tac22. That is some greasy stuff! So, my question is would reaming the cylinder diminish the value of the gun? All three of these guns are near mint condition. Not planning on selling but still curious just the same. Also, what about rust? Obviously the reaming will remove the bluing from inside the cylinder therefore leaving it unprotected. I would of course keep a quality gun oil on the metal but was wondering if anyone has had this problem after reaming? Thanks for any replies. John.
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  #110  
Old 05-04-2020, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notch8 View Post
Hello all. First post here but frequent reader. Just wondering if there are any downsides to reaming a cylinder on an older, somewhat collectible S&W? I've been thinking about doing this to my 1952 K22, my 17-2, and my 617-1. All exhibit difficult extraction after a few cylinders full have been fired. Just last week I had trouble with my K22 after only the second cylinder of Norma Tac22. That is some greasy stuff! So, my question is would reaming the cylinder diminish the value of the gun? All three of these guns are near mint condition. Not planning on selling but still curious just the same. Also, what about rust? Obviously the reaming will remove the bluing from inside the cylinder therefore leaving it unprotected. I would of course keep a quality gun oil on the metal but was wondering if anyone has had this problem after reaming? Thanks for any replies. John.
Most of the folks here get the chamber reamers. I just bought a .22 rifle mop and I had a block of jewelers rouge. I chucked the mop with one section of cleaning rod into my cordless drill. Loaded the mop up with jewelers rouge and commenced to polishing the chambers. I did maybe 10 or so passes at each chamber. No problems with extraction after that. So, for $1.50, my 17-2 has no extraction problems to drive me bonkers. Worked for me......
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  #111  
Old 05-04-2020, 10:16 PM
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The revolver cylinder reamer, cuts only to SAAMI specifications, no more. It would only remove a few slivers of metal. Does not touch the cylinder throats. No harm when used properly. Only does, what the factory should of. Besides that, who would ever know that you reamed the chambers? You can't tell by looking.
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  #112  
Old 05-04-2020, 10:45 PM
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Default Why?

Does anyone know why smith doesn't do this at the factory? They have to know there are tight chambers and I would think they would have made chambers to sammi spec.
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  #113  
Old 05-04-2020, 10:50 PM
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Agreed that most people would never know it had been done, except for those types that hang out on a forum such as this one. So, realistically, probably no harm to the value. As far as telling by looking all one has to do is look in the cylinder and you could see the blue is gone. Probably wouldn't register with most people. The question still remains though if this might be inviting rust for anyone that doesn't take adequate care of their gun. I'm just weighing all the possibilities before I do it. Thanks for the replies.
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  #114  
Old 05-04-2020, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by britbike1 View Post
Does anyone know why smith doesn't do this at the factory? They have to know there are tight chambers and I would think they would have made chambers to sammi spec.
They do finish ream at the factory, but what probably happens is the finish reamers they are using get worn, and not replaced often enough. Probably not off enough to be out of spec, but off enough to cause extraction issues.
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  #115  
Old 05-04-2020, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by britbike1 View Post
Does anyone know why smith doesn't do this at the factory? They have to know there are tight chambers and I would think they would have made chambers to sammi spec.
Lots of different specs. I believe its been stated elsewhere in this thread that Smith used a match chamber instead of standard .22lr chamber, which is looser. The gun has been regarded somewhat as a target model, thus they used a tighter chamber in the effort to increase accuracy. However as I understand it, the accuracy comes more from the chamber throat dimensions (and of course the barrel, as well as the barrel and chamber lining up properly)
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  #116  
Old 05-04-2020, 11:26 PM
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Just ordered the reamer today based on this thread. Have three S&W's ready for the treatment. As a note, Brownells does not have the 8oz bottle of cutting fluid at this time, but that's easy to pick up locally. I may do before and after targets with them.
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  #117  
Old 05-04-2020, 11:45 PM
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Alright, I gotta apologize first,, for my stupid question that follows,,,

No one has mentioned reaming an autoloader barrel, or a rifle barrel,,

Can this chamber reamer be used on other weapons other than revolvers?
Someone mentioned that this may improve accuracy?
(I have a "different brand" autoloader that is not as accurate as I would expect,,
possibly the chamber could benefit from reaming?)

Come to think of it,, I have a Ruger autoloader rifle that will only shoot high dollar ammo without jamming,,that rifle might benefit from this reamer also,,,
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  #118  
Old 05-04-2020, 11:50 PM
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The only stupid question is one not asked. Yes this reamer could be used on any 22lr gun would it help accuracy I don't know, but my first thought would be no. It could possibly help an autoloader with extraction issues.
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  #119  
Old 05-05-2020, 07:39 AM
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Cylinder reamers, are for revolvers only. To do rifles, you need a different reamer. Be sure you are getting the correct one.
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  #120  
Old 05-05-2020, 11:12 AM
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For the revolver, you need a reamer with a pilot to fit the throats. For a gun with chamber integral to the barrel, you need a reamer with a pilot to fit the rifling (smaller). If you want to do all, get a reamer with changeable pilots. Any gun other than a high end match rifle or pistol will probably benefit from this process.
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  #121  
Old 05-05-2020, 12:04 PM
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Default Reaming chambers and diminished value

How can reaming the cylinders reduce the value of the revolver? Assuming it is done correctly, which is very easy to do, it only serves to improve the "fit and finish" similar to polishing and smoothing the other working parts of the piece. If there were a burr on the muzzle causing accuracy problems, would it reduce the gun's value to remove it? It seems to me that reaming should be part of any "action job" for improved function, accuracy, and reliability, not to mention sheer enjoyment of plinking.
My Models 63 and 17 benefited greatly from ensuring proper dimensions of the chambers.
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  #122  
Old 05-05-2020, 01:34 PM
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Well, I wasn't sure how some people would view that procedure. Lots of folks think if anything isn't exactly as it left the factory then it isn't still 100% and wouldn't pay a premium price. I guess it all depends on the individual and exactly what has been done to the gun as to whether someone may or may not think it has been devalued. I'm definitely not saying it does diminish value, I'm just asking what most of you all think. Since I'm not getting rid of any of mine anyway I guess the whole question is irrelevant.
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  #123  
Old 05-05-2020, 01:44 PM
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I will probably be calling Manson this week to order the reamer. If so I will report back with the results. Seems everyone is pretty happy with the way their gun turned out.
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  #124  
Old 05-05-2020, 03:23 PM
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"The chrome didn't damage his reamer one bit (har har)."

I don't know about other companies that did hard chrome, but Armoloy, the original, would not plate inside cylinders or bores smaller than .38 caliber. So maybe yours weren't plated. Har har?
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  #125  
Old 05-05-2020, 04:15 PM
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Is anyone interested in swapping reamers temporarily? I have a 10mm Auto finish reamer and go/no go gauges for converting .40 S&W to 10mm that I could swap. I have projects that I need .22LR, .32 H&R Mag, and .357 Mag cylinder reamers for, but hate to buy 3 different reamers to do one gun each with.
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  #126  
Old 05-05-2020, 07:07 PM
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Used my reamer on my and a number of 617s with excellent results, good work and excellent comments on proper use of chamber readers. It took unpleasant revolvers to fun to shoot especially when you have speed loaders and loading blocks.
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  #127  
Old 05-06-2020, 06:07 PM
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This is an interesting thread, although I haven't read all of the posts.

I have a 351C in .22WMR that has started binding on ejection lately. It's only two cylinders and it got a little bit better when I did a good cleaning. I'm out of 22 patches and will do a better job when they come in next week.

Has anyone sent a revolver with this problem back to the factory for repair? I could probably get a reamer and do it myself, but I'm kind of a coward when it comes to removing metal from a gun.
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  #128  
Old 05-06-2020, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
This is an interesting thread, although I haven't read all of the posts.

I have a 351C in .22WMR that has started binding on ejection lately. It's only two cylinders and it got a little bit better when I did a good cleaning. I'm out of 22 patches and will do a better job when they come in next week.

Has anyone sent a revolver with this problem back to the factory for repair? I could probably get a reamer and do it myself, but I'm kind of a coward when it comes to removing metal from a gun.
No reason to be afraid of doing this. It is truly a no-brainer type of job. If you can turn a screwdriver and squirt a few drops of oil on something you can do this one. It really couldn't be much easier. The hardest part is removing the cylinder from the gun and that is as simple as removing the yoke retention screw.

Literally all you need is the right reamer, a can of cutting oil, and a good screwdriver to remove/reinstall the yoke retention screw. Maybe a rag and some carb or brake cleaner to clean up the cylinder after you're done.

The reaming only removes tiny little shavings of metal from inside the chambers. I did all 9 chambers on a High Standard W101 and the shavings from all 9 chambers combined wouldn't have been enough metal to make a small paper clip. Literally just a few grains worth of metal.
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Old 05-06-2020, 07:00 PM
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Thanks! I might work up the courage to order a reamer and try. Since they shell casings are the same size, I assume that I can order a .22LR reamer?



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No reason to be afraid of doing this. It is truly a no-brainer type of job. If you can turn a screwdriver and squirt a few drops of oil on something you can do this one. It really couldn't be much easier. The hardest part is removing the cylinder from the gun and that is as simple as removing the yoke retention screw.

Literally all you need is the right reamer, a can of cutting oil, and a good screwdriver to remove/reinstall the yoke retention screw. Maybe a rag and some carb or brake cleaner to clean up the cylinder after you're done.

The reaming only removes tiny little shavings of metal from inside the chambers. I did all 9 chambers on a High Standard W101 and the shavings from all 9 chambers combined wouldn't have been enough metal to make a small paper clip. Literally just a few grains worth of metal.
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Old 05-06-2020, 07:10 PM
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Thanks! I might work up the courage to order a reamer and try. Since they shell casings are the same size, I assume that I can order a .22LR reamer?
I don't know, but it seems to me that the 22LR wouldn't work because the 22 WRF/mag has a longer case, so the reamer for the 22LR might not be long enough.

Seems to me that If you get a 22 mag reamer you could probably use it to ream 22LR, 22WRF, & 22mag since the 22LR has a heeled bullet and chambers that are reamed straight through anyway.

I'm sure someone will chime in with better info if I am wrong.
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Old 05-06-2020, 07:37 PM
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It would be cool to gauge some of these chambers before and after and to know the specs of the reamer used. Wondering how close to minimum the factory chambers are and how close to max the finish reamer is. Are these tight chambers typically difficult to load?
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Old 05-06-2020, 07:45 PM
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Thanks! I might work up the courage to order a reamer and try. Since they shell casings are the same size, I assume that I can order a .22LR reamer?

A .22 lr. reamer will not work in a .22 mag. chamber. The bullets are close to the same size (mag. .001 bigger) but the mag. cases are larger, not just longer.
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Old 05-06-2020, 07:55 PM
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I don't know, but it seems to me that the 22LR wouldn't work because the 22 WRF/mag has a longer case, so the reamer for the 22LR might not be long enough.

Seems to me that If you get a 22 mag reamer you could probably use it to ream 22LR, 22WRF, & 22mag since the 22LR has a heeled bullet and chambers that are reamed straight through anyway.

I'm sure someone will chime in with better info if I am wrong.

Sorry, incorrect. .22 WRF can be fired in a .22 mag. (MRF) chamber but .22 lr. has a smaller case. A lr. might go bang in a mag. chamber but it has considerably different dimensions although bullet size is close.
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Old 05-07-2020, 07:51 AM
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Sorry, incorrect. .22 WRF can be fired in a .22 mag. (MRF) chamber but .22 lr. has a smaller case. A lr. might go bang in a mag. chamber but it has considerably different dimensions although bullet size is close.

A .22 lr will fire in a .22 mag chamber but will typically split the case.
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  #135  
Old 05-11-2020, 03:19 PM
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I received my Manson reamer Saturday and yesterday I reamed the cylinders on my stainless 617-1. Very easy job as indicated by several here. So, today I took it out to see the results using CCI Standard Velocity, Wolf Match Target, and Norma Tac-22. The very first cylinder was with the Wolf and when I went to eject the empty cases they were still quite sticky. Second cylinder the same. Next up I tried the CCI and what a difference that was. Very easy to extract! But when I tried the Tac-22 they were also difficult. I did this all morning alternating between the three brands and the CCI was perfect each time but the other two were harder to extract every time. When I got home I measured all three and not really any appreciable difference, but what is different is the amount of lube on each, with the CCI having the least while the others are quite greasy. I know lubrication can make a difference but would it be that much? Good thing I mainly use CCI in my handguns and the others mostly in my rifles! Anyone have any thoughts on this? I'm not sure I will do my other guns until I do some more testing or figure out what is going on here. I really am thinking it must be the lube. What do you all think? Thanks, John.
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Old 05-11-2020, 03:36 PM
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I’ve had k22 since 60s. I put up with hard extraction because I figured it was tight to target specs. On first shooting session I would guess at least 150 shots not only tight extraction but cylinder was binding on residue. I didn’t realize it at time and was embarrassed that I didn’t figure that out for myself, I was a kid at the time. Still have that k22, still tight after 55+ years. They
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Old 05-11-2020, 03:47 PM
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For Notch8, it probably has more to do with the temper of the brass. Too soft and it will just stay expanded against the chamber walls. Tempered, and it will shrink back just a little bit (elastic), allowing easy extraction.
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  #138  
Old 05-11-2020, 03:59 PM
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That is an interesting idea about the temper of the brass but if that were the case why is everyone in this thread saying that it helped so much after they reamed the chamber? Surely everyone isn't using only ammo that is tempered just so. I do admit though that even the CCI was a little difficult before I worked on the cylinder so obviously it did help somewhat that is why I said I had mixed results. Is everyone seeing these same results, success with some brands of ammo but failure with others?
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Old 05-11-2020, 04:56 PM
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Notch8 - Before your next range session clean a couple of cylinders full of the Norma and Wolf with solvent and see if that makes a difference.
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Old 05-11-2020, 05:01 PM
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Yeah I thought about doing that. That will at least tell me if the lube has any bearing on extraction. I'll let everyone know how that goes.
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Old 05-11-2020, 05:06 PM
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If any of you are in SE AZ, I have both .22 LR & .22 magnum reamers I kept when I retired & closed my shop. I now only work on my own or a few close friends guns but would be happy to let you use my tools & shop.
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  #142  
Old 05-11-2020, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notch8 View Post
I received my Manson reamer Saturday and yesterday I reamed the cylinders on my stainless 617-1.

What do you all think? Thanks, John.
There could be as many as ten variables controlling the ease of spent shell removal,
so,,
it is difficult to determine which variable is causing YOUR sticking,,

One variable is the machinability of stainless steel, especially as compared to the specific cutting oil that you used.

Because of that, I would review this thread, and find a procedure on polishing the chambers,,
possibly a little roughness is now causing the sticking,,
a little polishing may ease the shell removal just enough to fix the 617,,


and,, possibly, the cause is one of the five or more other variables.
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  #143  
Old 05-13-2020, 10:39 AM
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I got my reamer from Brownells earlier this week. I have two "shooter" grade 22 revolvers. One model 18 and the other an old outdoorsman. The 18 had been reamed sometime prior in it's life. The outdoorsman had not and cases would begin to stick after a cylinder or two. I reamed the cylinder on it. Was not hard to do and I will shoot it next week to see how it handles now.
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Old 05-13-2020, 10:24 PM
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For Notch8 I have a 17-4 and when I got it I had major problems with extraction of fired brass, after an action job that included polishing the cylinders it was much better. The gunsmith that did the work recommended just cleaning the cylinders with Hoppes #9 and then a clean patch, after that never a problem with any ammo that I tried. The gunsmith specifically said don't oil the cylinders after cleaning unless it was for long term storage. 35 years later the cylinders are still clean.
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Old 05-13-2020, 11:12 PM
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Thanks to all who have offered suggestions. I will be trying to narrow down the possibilities over the next few weeks as I am extremely busy right now. The puzzling thing is that some ammo works just fine but then a different brand hangs up. That certainly would appear to be a problem with the ammo but as I said I will be experimenting to determine what is causing the difficult extraction.
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  #146  
Old 05-16-2020, 02:53 PM
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I did a deep cleaning of the cylinder using an old fashioned handle and jag with cotton patches. It helped, but there are still two sticking cylinders.

I'm going to take it to the range and do some shooting to see if it's worth sending it back to the factory. If so, I'll call customer service and see what they say.
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Old 06-22-2020, 03:13 PM
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Smile Chamber Reamer for Wheelgun Cylinder?

[QUOTE=PzKfW5;138903789]Brownells Manson Reamer 513-051-220WB $45

So this is a chamber reamer, yes? But it's OK to use on a wheelgun's cylinder? As long as the user is really careful with how far to take it when doing a clean-up?

I just learned of this technique for making S&W cylinders less of a headache if extraction issues persist from a post on the AccurateShooter.com forum. I've had a K22 chambered for 22WMR that I haven't fired in maybe 15 years 'cause it's no fun at all having to use a chamber brush on each cylinder bore when I want to re-load. Just one firing makes chambering a fresh round difficult otherwise.

The reamer I ought to use for this is Brownell's / Manson's 513-050-020WB Rimfire Cartridge, .22 Win. WMR Finisher, right?
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Old 06-22-2020, 04:07 PM
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[quote=spclark;140812395]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PzKfW5 View Post
Brownells Manson Reamer 513-051-220WB $45


I just learned of this technique for making S&W cylinders less of a headache if extraction issues persist from a post on the AccurateShooter.com forum. I've had a K22 chambered for 22WMR that I haven't fired in maybe 15 years 'cause it's no fun at all having to use a chamber brush on each cylinder bore when I want to re-load. Just one firing makes chambering a fresh round difficult otherwise.

The reamer I ought to use for this is Brownell's / Manson's 513-050-020WB Rimfire Cartridge, .22 Win. WMR Finisher, right?
Yes, the .22 WMR finisher is the one you want. #513-050-020WB.
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Old 06-22-2020, 05:17 PM
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[quote=spclark;140812395]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PzKfW5 View Post
Brownells Manson Reamer 513-051-220WB $45
.....

..... I've had a K22 chambered for 22WMR .......

The reamer I ought to use for this is Brownell's / Manson's 513-050-020WB Rimfire Cartridge, .22 Win. WMR Finisher, right?



#513-050-020WB reamer .22WMR Finisher is NOT the correct reamer for use in a revolver cylinder.

That reamer is for use in a Rifle bbl or in a semiauto pistol bbl.

I've read through all of the posts in this thread and probably only once or twice has the fact been mentioned that you need:

A "Cylinder Reamer' for reaming or recutting the chambers in a revolver cylinder.

The first reamer you referenced:
Reamer # 513-051-220WB
Rimfire Cartridge, .22 Long Rifle Finisher (Cyl)

This IS a correct reamer for use on revolver cylinders Note the 'CYL' reference on the reamer description.
But this is for cal .22LR, not the 22WMR you need.


The CYLinder Reamer differs from the usual barrel chambering reamer most often thought of, the kind used to chamber a rifle bbl, as the Cylinder Reamer DOES NOT cut a tapered lead with the chamber.
Also, the Cylinder Reamer has it's pilot the same dia as the chambers throat, that reduced dia just ahead of the chamber proper.
That throat dia is usually the groove dia of the bbl being used.

The pilot on a standard Rifle Bbl chamber reamer is bbl bore dia less a couple .0000". The pilot on the reamer rides on the lands of the bbl as the reamer is pushed in to cut the chamber.
Just behind the pilot the tapered lead of the reamer is machined to cut at the same time as the chamber is cut.

So you can place a rifle bbl chambering reamer into a revolver cylinder. The smaller pilot on the rifle reamer (bore dia) will slip right thru the revolver cyl throats. But then if you proceed to cutting, the rifle reamer will first cut the revolver throat area out to what you see looking down a rifle bbl. A tapered lead or throat.
Keep cutting and the reamer will cut/recut the chamber (.22lr in this case) w/o the benefit of a piloted tool. The final out come is not what you're looking for.

Finishing Reamer marked 'Cylinder' for use in Revolver cylinder.
Sometimes just marked 'C'
Look at the pilot end. Should be NO tapered throat or lead. Just the squared end of the case in profile, then the cylinder throat and pilot the same dia.

(Rifle barrel chamber reamers are generally marked 'Barrel' or just 'B".

Solid pilot is usually OK. You may need a floating/removable pilot if the throat is smaller in dia than the standard size that the reamer was ground to and it won't enter the chamber for you. You then order/buy a removable pilot for the reamer to replace the one that's on it. They are usually held on with a small C clip or some with a small #4 screw.
Solid pilot reamers can be converted to removable pilot reamers by their makers for about $50. Pilots are extra.

Reaming/recutting cylinder chambers isn't difficult. Simple precautions taken and the job comes out fine.
They used to sell a de-leading reamer mentioned in one of the posts. It was to remove just that,,lead and built up carbon and nothing else. No metal. A cleaning tool.
It's something that was used before going to a chambering reamer to see if simple cleaning would cure the problem first.
Never very popular.
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  #150  
Old 07-02-2020, 09:33 PM
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OK, free reamer use. Joe F sold a reamer, handle and cutting oil (Kit) in the forum classified for 50.00 and I was lucky enough to purchase the Kit. I paid nothing, Joe shipped to me for free. Through PMs we decided to pass the reamer to who needs it, I had an offer to buy it after I used it. The reamer Kit is on its way to kraynky (Terry) right now. Add a post if you need it and when Terry is done using it, he will get your address and ship it to you to use. After you use it ship it the next person in line somehow keeping this in order. Kinda paying it forward, Larry

IF YOU Need TO USE IT, clear some PMs from your inbox so the message will get to you.
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