The patient is a Model of 1902 M&P (a pre-5 screw 4 screw----same action as a Model of 1899). I wish to remove the cylinder stop assembly. The instructions (Chicoine's Antique Firearms Assembly/Dissassembly) prescribe holding the locking bolt portion down (clear of the frame), and lifting the assembly off its stud----sounds simple enough.

The cylinder stop assembly is not the least bit inclined to be lifted off its stud----and the absence of anything handy to grab a hold of doesn't help any. Aside from that, it works fine.

Assuming there's a secret manipulation, or some magic words to be uttered, please tell me more.

Many thanks!

Ralph Tremaine

Did you remove the cylinder stop screw spring and plunger prior to trying to remove the cylinder stop? (parts behind the screw in front of the trigger guard)

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Ret. LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer

I will assume you have already read the suggestion from Armorer and checked that indeed the screw and spring have been removed.

Usually they lift out fairly easy, but once in a blue moon they get stubborn! I use a little Graphite to slick them up and a good set of Needle-nose Piers. Except for ONE absolutely jammed up one that usually is as far as I have to go. If you must, you can (and I hate to even suggest this) GENTLY pry it up being ever so careful NOT to bend the stud. In fact if there is a reason that the original must be taken out (because it is worn or not working properly)
then before I applied any great amount of force I'd sacrifice the part by clipping it or Dremeling it to get it out without causing any damage to the rest of the Revolver as long as you can replace it with another one. I HATE to pry and almost NEVER even suggest it - but if you do just be very careful and only go just so far - if that fails then I would just sacrifice the old part since I would assume it's no good anyway.

I was going to say "perhaps needless to say" but that is clearly not the case.

There is NO cylinder stop screw, spring and plunger---as is the case in a "pre 5 screw 4 screw"---as in "Model of 1902'----as in same action as "Model of 1899"---as in absolutely nothing to do with Model of 1905---and subsequent----until the 3 screws came to be.

As an aside, I'll wager a substantial amount the chances of coming up with a replacement would be found to be somewhere on the wrong side of slim and none.

Lord have MERCY!!!

Thanks anyway----sort of.

Ralph Tremaine

So this is the one with the pigtail spring that sits in the notch/cutaway in the cylinder stop?

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Ret. LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer

Absolutely not! It is entirely different than the 1905 and later cylinder stop. Unfortunately your knowledge of early S&W revolvers is sadly lacking.

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Gunsmithing since 1961

"Unfortunately" and "sadly" yes....that's why I'm asking the question. Thanks

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Ret. LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer

I have some 1902 parts. I don't know if I have what you need but if you can photo it, I can look.

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S&WCA 1729

The only thing I need is to learn/know how to get the cylinder stop assembly off----without boogering it.

The gun has had its welcoming bath---every piece off/out (except the barrel and internal studs)---soak in solvent----scrub---rinse----dry. That is, every piece except the cylinder stop assembly. It stayed right where it was. It works fine. It will likely continue to work fine (Not that it really makes any difference if it does or not. Once it's back together it goes on the shelf----having long since fired its last shot. It just deserves to be squeaky clean----every place it has a place.).

So, as it stands right now, I don't need any pieces; but I thank you kindly for the offer.

Ralph Tremaine

Do you have any Dental Picks handy? It's possible that you are dealing with a "captured" spring that locks everything in place until it is pushed clear. If so you may find that careful use or a Dental Pick with the aid of some magnification can solve this problem. BTW, I have no idea at all of how these early revolvers were put together but the simple fact that they were assembled indicates that there is some method that can be used to take them apart. So be patient, get out a magnifying glass, and just study the bits you can see and you may find the clues needed to take it apart.

I have virtually every type of dental pick known to man----and you have a great mind---or at least a mind similar to mine. Consider yourself "damned by faint praise".

I suspect the spring which powers the assembly is similar in type/location to that found in some J frames of my memory----and in all the "3 screw/model number" revolvers. That said, I have only one "3 screw" gun, so I can't be supposing too much about the others. There is virtually no room between the cylinder stop assembly and the frame, so seeing anything in between is problematic at best. I had thought about poking around down in there to see what's what via the braille method, but have yet to so.

As noted earlier, Chicoine's instructions call for simply depressing the locking bolt portion of the assembly below the frame---and lifting the assembly out. Depressing the bolt is child's play. Holding it depressed while you lift, poke and prod is another matter----calling for a third hand. That problem was solved by a feeler gauge in between the top of the bolt and the bottom of the frame----where there's a whole .002" clearance----a tight .002". Given both hands free, I continued----and accomplished nothing. Disregarding counsel from others here, along with my own common sense, I even pried on it a little bit. It didn't even wiggle!

And I agree with your logic. Some little old lady slapped this thing together in nothing flat---and likely could take it apart just as quickly---with no fuss, no muss, and no bother!!

We shall see what we shall see!

Ralph Tremaine

wish i could see a picture .On my "J" frames i remove the cylinder ,and use a straight dental pick between the frame and cylinder stop to hold it down.Then i gently use a bent hook pick to lift up on the curved part of the cyl lock,up out of the cavity and off the pin. try to keep it level coming up and out. and watch the spring in front of the cyl. lock . best to do the above in a large clear plastic freezer bag.Some times i have to move the pick to different positions and pry at different spots once it starts to move up

If it's the style I'm thinking of, the cylinder stop
has a captured internal spring & plunger at about the 5 o'clock position in the part (as you view it in the stripped frame).
Internally, the spring & plunger (blind) hole runs diagonally, right in between the two holes in the cylinder stop from 5 towards 11 o'clock.

The tip of the plunger sticks out about 1/16" @ 5 o'clock when the part is out of the gun.
The very end of the plunger on the parts I've seen usually have a slight 'foot' w/a sharp edge burnished onto it. Maybe just from wear and not original(IMO).

I think I have one in the parts pile. I'll see if I can locate it and get a pic.

It is correct that you should be able to lift the part from the frame to remove it,,the plunger should merely drag on the side of the milled cut out as you lift it out.
BUT, if the end of the plunger has one of those sharp, turned over burrs or feet on it like I mentioned,,it may be snagging itself on or even slightly into the sidewall of the cut-out.

It is the one you're thinking of----and it's OUT----still functional, and by all appearances, as new. The extraction methodology may be described as (very mild) brute force and awkwardness.

While it was entirely functional as installed, it would not move upward/outward---not even a wiggle. Having failed to come up with any magical immediate extraction process, the goal became get it to wiggle. I proceeded accordingly.The process may be described as gentle high frequency prying---from every place I could insert an appropriate tool-----mostly under the locking bolt where it joins the main body of the assembly. After a bit, it wiggled. After a bit more, it wiggled more. Then it JUMPED----about halfway out. At that point, I could grasp it and lift it out. It clearly had been a captive of crud----probably about 110 years worth----dry crud----brushed off easily with a copper/brass/bronze/?? toothbrush. And now it and everything else is all squeaky clean, and back together---------------the only additional hurdle being the installation of the trigger spring----which was one of those try, try again things.

Ralph Tremaine