Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 01-02-2017, 09:39 PM
Troystat Troystat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 907
Likes: 113
Liked 211 Times in 140 Posts
Default

Really neat project. Can't wait to see the end results and to hear how it shoots.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #52  
Old 01-04-2017, 08:43 PM
badwhale's Avatar
badwhale badwhale is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bitterville, PA U.S.A.
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

subscribed
__________________
Ah well, you know...people
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 01-07-2017, 12:32 PM
shovelwrench's Avatar
shovelwrench shovelwrench is offline
Member
K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build....  
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pennsylvania 17963
Posts: 1,221
Likes: 194
Liked 161 Times in 86 Posts
Default

Got to do a little more last night.....

Its funny how the external dimensions on these revolver are fairly destroyed by the polishing/finishing. It took me quite a while messing around weeknights to figure out where to indicate from before I could start machining.

What worked best was sticking a VERY snug gauge block into the rear sight notch. As this is one of the few square and unfinished machined spots left.

Indicated in to well under .0005 and verified by measuring barrel runout, I could finally start machining for the rear sight.











I took this one just to show the cutter, it always amazes me how well a cutter this small , made from solid carbide, removes metal!!

After this pic I test fit the sight and wound up cutting the rest of the U-cut, where the old sight notch resided, forward till its just about gone. Then moved the rest of the dimensions forward to match.



You can see the U-notch clearly here, but its only a few .001"s deep at this point, really its just enough left that the bluing remained.

Also, you can see where the firing pin has been eroding the frame!!! While I'm going to move that whole radius forward a little and wind up having more meat there, should this have the spring in the hammer nose??







Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #54  
Old 01-07-2017, 12:36 PM
shovelwrench's Avatar
shovelwrench shovelwrench is offline
Member
K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build....  
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pennsylvania 17963
Posts: 1,221
Likes: 194
Liked 161 Times in 86 Posts
Default

Today I'm going to drill for the sight screw, and attach a digital scale to my quill before I set up to ream the cylinder....

AND, pull the sideplate and clean internals...
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #55  
Old 01-08-2017, 03:42 AM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
SWCA Member
K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build....  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 10,759
Likes: 2,734
Liked 5,796 Times in 2,847 Posts
Default

Neat work!

You might consider the longer version rear sight with serrated tang that meets the barrel rib serrations, so you don't have the blank spot between the front end of the rear sight and the back end of the rib.

Although you may want the blank spot since the serrations of rib and sight tang are different lines per inch.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #56  
Old 01-12-2017, 09:18 AM
shovelwrench's Avatar
shovelwrench shovelwrench is offline
Member
K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build....  
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pennsylvania 17963
Posts: 1,221
Likes: 194
Liked 161 Times in 86 Posts
Default

So I indicate the rear of the cylinder in to dead on with a .0005 coaxial indicator.

Then I go for a chamber.

The chambers aren't quite straight, from the rear to about midway they're off by .001x .002y. I didn't get a chance to put a feeler on long enough to reach the forward end of the forcing cone yet.

BUT, my question...

Should I be indicating from the rear of the chamber, Or center it up on the forcing barrel end of the cylinder??

OR, am I putting way too much thought into this!?!?!

Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 01-12-2017, 09:19 AM
shovelwrench's Avatar
shovelwrench shovelwrench is offline
Member
K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build....  
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pennsylvania 17963
Posts: 1,221
Likes: 194
Liked 161 Times in 86 Posts
Default

Hondo44,

That's a very good possibility, Is the screw location the same on the "old" style sight??

I am going to see if I can add the extra lines in the current sight!!
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 01-12-2017, 12:17 PM
teletech teletech is offline
Member
K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build....  
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 65
Likes: 1
Liked 31 Times in 16 Posts
Default

Sorry I'm too late to help you, but perhaps it will be of value to others:
I've had good luck using a threadmill for work like that, but considering what some of those cost I've been known to grind a tap so it's one-flute and use that to get a matching set of v profiled lines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shovelwrench View Post
Does anyone know how S&W cuts the grooves down the center/top of the barrel. The fine, threadlike finish that continues on the rear sight??
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #59  
Old 01-12-2017, 12:39 PM
shovelwrench's Avatar
shovelwrench shovelwrench is offline
Member
K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build....  
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pennsylvania 17963
Posts: 1,221
Likes: 194
Liked 161 Times in 86 Posts
Default

That is something I hadn't considered....

I'll probably try that out on something though, thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 01-12-2017, 02:34 PM
Toolguy Toolguy is offline
Member
K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build....  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 493
Likes: 1,445
Liked 483 Times in 214 Posts
Default

Hi Shovelwrench -

The mounting holes on the rear sights are all the same for the newer round end style. The holes on the square end ones are all over the place, depending on what model they are for.

In the picture of the mill setup, here's what I would do.
Tram the head of the mill to the table (or the vise bed) so you know it is perfectly square (or as close as you can get).

Put the 2 clamp bars on parallels in the vise without the cylinder, the same way as they are in the picture. Rebore the hole for the cylinder. Mill .010 off the inside of each bar so they will clamp on the cyl. With the bars sitting on the parallels, put the cylinder back in the clamp. It will now be exactly perpendicular to the vise and the holes will be straight. This pair of clamp bars will fit all K frame cylinders.

When you dial in an outside circle with the CoAx indicator, you want the curved feeler to be on the other side of the part from the way it is shown, going around the outside circumference. For a hole, you will use a straight feeler. I have found the CoAx indicators are not as accurate as a dial test indicator or a good edge finder. I have a Blake (good one) and it's that way too.

With the cylinder in the clamp blocks and the front facing up, locate the center of the first hole with an edge finder. The .22 hole is small, so use the pointed end about .1 down in the hole. Run it at around 1000 to 1200 RPM and touch off one side of Y axis, zero the setting, touch off the other side and get a reading. Divide that number by 2 to find center. Do the same for X. This will get you exactly on center without the worry of whether the cylinder is indexed exactly along the X or Y axis. Do this for each hole. I don't know if you have a DRO or not. It's really a time saver. Otherwise make sure you compensate for slack in the leadscrew. Lock the X and Y so the table doesn't move during the cutting process.

Drill the hole through with a 19/64 drill, then ream with a .312 reamer.
Once all the holes are reamed through, you can turn the cylinder over and run the chamber reamer from the back side. The chamber reamer pilot will run in the .312 reamed holes.

This is probably more information than you actually needed, but I hope you find some of it helpful.

Best Regards.

Last edited by Toolguy; 01-12-2017 at 03:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #61  
Old 01-12-2017, 03:20 PM
shovelwrench's Avatar
shovelwrench shovelwrench is offline
Member
K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build....  
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pennsylvania 17963
Posts: 1,221
Likes: 194
Liked 161 Times in 86 Posts
Default

Tool guy,
That's excellent!! I hadn't even thought about drilling and reaming from the front side, then flipping the cylinder over to chamber!!

I did buy a .312 and .313 reamer just for this. Yes I have a DRO, and while I made the blocks the way you described, aside from taking. 001 off the mating surfaces, I did not check to see if the bed/vise is true. I only purchased this machine from a closing machine shop a few months ago. But I will check the mill table and vice, then rework the blocks.

Thank You!!
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 01-12-2017, 03:26 PM
Toolguy Toolguy is offline
Member
K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build....  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 493
Likes: 1,445
Liked 483 Times in 214 Posts
Default

You're welcome. If I may ask, what kind of mill is it?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #63  
Old 01-12-2017, 03:39 PM
shovelwrench's Avatar
shovelwrench shovelwrench is offline
Member
K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build....  
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pennsylvania 17963
Posts: 1,221
Likes: 194
Liked 161 Times in 86 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolguy View Post
You're welcome. If I may ask, what kind of mill is it?
Clausing Kondia FV-1 (variable speed 3hp) Once I adjusted all the gibs, its so far a tight accurate machine....

I had a friend of mine show me the ropes on a '50s Bridgeport. After using this mid '80s, much larger machine, it feels like a HUGE upgrade.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 01-12-2017, 03:46 PM
Toolguy Toolguy is offline
Member
K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build....  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 493
Likes: 1,445
Liked 483 Times in 214 Posts
Default

Nice machine. That is likely all the mill you will ever need.

Google or YouTube "How to tram a mill head" if you don't already know. Very Important for accurate work.

It appears you are doing a fine job of it from where I sit.
I don't want to insult you, but I don't know where you are at on the skill level scale, so I am only trying to help. I have been a Tool & Die maker for over 40 years at this point so I try to use my experience to help others whenever possible.

Last edited by Toolguy; 01-12-2017 at 03:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #65  
Old 01-12-2017, 03:57 PM
ParadiseRoad's Avatar
ParadiseRoad ParadiseRoad is offline
Member
K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build....  
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,071
Likes: 5,562
Liked 26,099 Times in 5,523 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shovelwrench View Post
So...

For now, I'm going to play with putting heavy slabside barrel on it. Not quite a bull barrel, but substantially thicker than stock.

I'm at .916", that lines the barrel up with two spots on the frame....

Chips were coming off a little warm.



And final diameter, brought to a nice polish....



...I like your double dog driver set up...
__________________
don't try this at home, kids
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #66  
Old 01-12-2017, 05:08 PM
shovelwrench's Avatar
shovelwrench shovelwrench is offline
Member
K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build....  
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pennsylvania 17963
Posts: 1,221
Likes: 194
Liked 161 Times in 86 Posts
Default

Toolguy,

Not insulted at all!! Most of my machining is motorcycle related, not very precision oriented IMO... The advice is much appreciated!!

Paradiseroad,

I don't have a faceplate yet, so that was the easiest way for me to turn between centers. My chucks through holes aren't large enough for the MT5 to fit through!!
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 01-12-2017, 09:16 PM
steelslaver's Avatar
steelslaver steelslaver is online now
US Veteran
K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build....  
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central Montana
Posts: 3,260
Likes: 1,027
Liked 5,365 Times in 1,838 Posts
Default

Here is my method for alignment. I first make a dummy that fits the original camber very snugly and has the same diameter top as my reamers. Then I set the cylinder up on parallels and adjust the table till the dummy goes in the cylinder with out any bump as its square end enters the chamber with table locked and vise locked. I have a set of brass plates that go on the vise jaws before I stick in the parallels and use some old banding material to form U springs to hold brass plates and parallels in place. Once the cylinder is locked in lined up perfectly with the dummy, I run it through the steps until reamed to new chambering. So far it has worked very well.

Check here for my method
An unloved 629-1

Also, nice work on the cuts for the rear sight. I would square off the front of the new style sight you have.

Last edited by steelslaver; 01-12-2017 at 09:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #68  
Old 01-12-2017, 09:49 PM
ontargetagain ontargetagain is offline
Member
K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build....  
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: North Central Ohio
Posts: 514
Likes: 277
Liked 292 Times in 160 Posts
Default

I wasn't blessed with the machining knowledge or talent you guys have but I have the utmost respect and appreciation for this type of work! To build basically from scratch is very rewarding.

This thread is great, keep the info and pics coming and I look forward to seeing it all together punching ragged holes

Nice work Shovelwrench!
Karl
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #69  
Old 01-17-2017, 11:17 PM
shovelwrench's Avatar
shovelwrench shovelwrench is offline
Member
K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build....  
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pennsylvania 17963
Posts: 1,221
Likes: 194
Liked 161 Times in 86 Posts
Default

OK!!!!

So I did rework my cylinder blocks..

Squared them, drilled for pins, and reamed, then when assembled, fly cut the bottom and re-bored the cylinder hole to size.

What I wound up with was a hold that indicated in nearly perfect just setting it on parallels and tightening the vice!!



I used Toolguys advice on chambering as I was worried mostly about maintaining alignment with the muzzle end of the cylinder having to open the holes up that far.

So pretty much following word for word, I drilled with 19/64 bit, then reamed to .312 all from the front of the cylinder...





Then flipped it over... This is when I found the the pilot would'nt run in the .312 hole for me?? So I reamed each one to .313 before I started chambering.

I went .1" at a time (this was the reason I added a digital scale to the quill) pulling the reamer, clearing chips, oiling, then another .1"... It looks clean because I was using compressed air to clear chips in the hole and on the cutter.



Somehow I managed to not get a finished pic of the chambers.... I'll post one up tomorrow!! (I'll have to clean it first since i was throwing lead through) Instead here's my digital scale.



I did put some rounds through, I have some things to "adjust" yet, and loads to develop. But from just some quick reloads and rushing test groups, I think it performed rather well!!

Top left, this group is with my welding helmet on (I didn't have good glasses handy at the time) and about 7yds. Then the top right group with proper glasses, same distance. And the last group at 20yds... All are 6rd groups, 5gr of Power Pistol, 113gr Cast Performance gas checked.



Tonight I loaded the same bullet over 11gr H110!! Pretty snappy!! And REALLY made my bullet trap ring!!

I'm waiting on some parts to fit and I'll begin posting more when I start the process of refinishing.

Since I just received all the parts for a 1911 build that will also need blued I'm going to put some tanks together and go through the whole process. Since it will cost me roughly what a good blue job on two firearms would anyway!!

Coincidentally, the gentleman who taught me machining basics is a metal finisher/restorer (decorative chrome) by trade (pedestal buffers and high polish). But this will be my first attempt at bluing!!!

Last edited by shovelwrench; 01-17-2017 at 11:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #70  
Old 01-17-2017, 11:43 PM
ParadiseRoad's Avatar
ParadiseRoad ParadiseRoad is offline
Member
K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build....  
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,071
Likes: 5,562
Liked 26,099 Times in 5,523 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shovelwrench View Post
Toolguy,

Not insulted at all!! Most of my machining is motorcycle related, not very precision oriented IMO... The advice is much appreciated!!

Paradiseroad,

I don't have a faceplate yet, so that was the easiest way for me to turn between centers. My chucks through holes aren't large enough for the MT5 to fit through!!
...it's a good idea...I'm gonna remember it in case I ever have to use it...
__________________
don't try this at home, kids
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #71  
Old 01-18-2017, 08:09 AM
steelslaver's Avatar
steelslaver steelslaver is online now
US Veteran
K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build....  
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central Montana
Posts: 3,260
Likes: 1,027
Liked 5,365 Times in 1,838 Posts
Default

I really like the setup you made for clamping the cylinder.

The proof is in the pudding and your groups are sure fired proof you did good.

My mill had digital scales very similar to yours.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #72  
Old 01-18-2017, 11:22 AM
Toolguy Toolguy is offline
Member
K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build....  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 493
Likes: 1,445
Liked 483 Times in 214 Posts
Default

Nice work on the clamp blocks and cylinder! Looking good.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #73  
Old 01-18-2017, 04:46 PM
Bob L Bob L is offline
Member
K32 build....  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 528
Likes: 167
Liked 311 Times in 166 Posts
Default

This is a Great thread shovelwrench, Thanks for sharing with us your whole process. This will be some great reference material.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #74  
Old 01-21-2017, 02:26 PM
shovelwrench's Avatar
shovelwrench shovelwrench is offline
Member
K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build....  
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pennsylvania 17963
Posts: 1,221
Likes: 194
Liked 161 Times in 86 Posts
Default

Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #75  
Old 02-02-2017, 10:40 PM
Jebus35745's Avatar
Jebus35745 Jebus35745 is offline
SWCA Member
K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build....  
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Independence, OH, USA
Posts: 4,343
Likes: 12,891
Liked 2,248 Times in 1,005 Posts
Default

Any updates on a very interesting thread. Was wondering how my gun was doing that you are building!!! Now I can sorta see what Andy Horvath went through building 2 of em for me. Larry
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #76  
Old 02-04-2017, 12:12 PM
shovelwrench's Avatar
shovelwrench shovelwrench is offline
Member
K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build....  
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pennsylvania 17963
Posts: 1,221
Likes: 194
Liked 161 Times in 86 Posts
Default

The wife feels i was in the shop too much....

I also have some other projects on friends motorcycles I've been addressing.

Once I get back to gun stuff I'll be posting my process for refinishing!!!


On a side note, I picked up a 67 on the cheap. As soon as the backordered 617 cylinder is shipped (hopefully not too long) I'm going to attempt to drill and ream the barrel for a hot/cold pressed "sleeve" as Steeleslaver suggests. So it'll look like a bone stock 67, but in .327!!

Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #77  
Old 02-04-2017, 01:48 PM
Toolguy Toolguy is offline
Member
K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build....  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 493
Likes: 1,445
Liked 483 Times in 214 Posts
Default

You would probably be better served to make a slip fit and set the barrel liner with Loctite 680 Retaining compound than to try the heat/cold thing. Even if it works, the liner may be squeezed smaller when the temps normalize.

Nice work on the custom gun.

Last edited by Toolguy; 02-04-2017 at 01:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #78  
Old 02-04-2017, 07:45 PM
steelslaver's Avatar
steelslaver steelslaver is online now
US Veteran
K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build....  
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central Montana
Posts: 3,260
Likes: 1,027
Liked 5,365 Times in 1,838 Posts
Default

I don't think so. It is done all the tie with bearings etc. Plus with the method I taked about the liner would be beefier than the shroud piece, unlike the thin barrel liners most use. Thin liners would work poorly in a revolver anyway because of the bevel in the forcing cone making the liner horrbily thin in a critical blast area. Plus you would only need .0005 interference to make it very tight.

Last edited by steelslaver; 02-04-2017 at 07:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #79  
Old 02-05-2017, 09:54 PM
Troystat Troystat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 907
Likes: 113
Liked 211 Times in 140 Posts
Default

I like the recessed cylinders, very nice touch. Also the model 67 project looks like a great project. Thanks for showing us the pictures.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #80  
Old 02-26-2017, 10:13 PM
shovelwrench's Avatar
shovelwrench shovelwrench is offline
Member
K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build.... K32 build....  
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pennsylvania 17963
Posts: 1,221
Likes: 194
Liked 161 Times in 86 Posts
Default

So as it happened, I got a "in stock" notification from Midway and got a 617 cylinder.... (after many attempts, they sell out in under an hour for some reason)

I also had one backordered through Brownells....

WELL, now I have 2. One is going in that 67, one I don't know.

Would anyone be interested in one, chambered in .327??? The first one I got was an easy fit to the 67.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
If you build it -We will buy it !! S&W357 Smith & Wesson - The Wish List 0 12-30-2013 08:50 PM
Build Input/Ideas for a Classic Period Build usnrigger S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 30 11-17-2013 03:16 PM
My Build So Far ohbejuan Smith & Wesson M&P15 Rifles 52 05-25-2013 09:50 PM
Build or buy? maxwell Smith & Wesson Competitive Shooting 1 09-13-2011 02:51 PM
ar-15 build jagen heie The Lounge 18 08-07-2010 03:38 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:45 AM.


S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2015
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)