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Old 02-26-2017, 12:45 PM
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Default Online Gunsmithing class?

I am looking for a good online Gunsmithing class.

I'm not looking for a career change, I'm very happy with my job as a firefighter. Been at it for 18 years now but I would like to learn more about Gunsmithing. I have a lot of downtime at night at my job due to a new position and I'd like to fill that time beneficially.

Does anyone know of a reputable online source? I've read good and bad things about a few programs but I'm hoping someone here has 1st or even 2nd hand knowledge.

Thanks all!
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Old 02-26-2017, 02:19 PM
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There are several topics that lend themselves well to online instruction, but IMHO, anything mechanical in nature requires hands on training. Learning the theory behind the physical application of labor will only take you so far. I can explain to you in great detail how to go about locating and drilling a blind hole, and how to thread that hole using a set of taps, but until you've drilled your share of holes off center, along with broken and removed taps, the lessons will only provide the knowledge of how things are done and not the capability to do them.
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Old 02-26-2017, 02:56 PM
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There are many 'cons' and a few 'pros' to the on-line or CD disc versions of gunsmith courses. I have looked over the shoulder at a friend's course and was not impressed. I lean to the position that those types of instruction are over priced and under good. BUT, given your situation where you have lots of hours at your disposal that need to be filled productively....here is what I suggest; do your research and find what you think is the 'optimum' course for you. Don't stop there, purchase the well respected Gunsmithing books out there by respected experts. Combine the two sources and use both to glean out the good stuff that applies to what you want to put your main effort. Sometime it is necessary to do what I call, "Read between the lines". One of the best early H*o*w to gunsmith' the Colt Govt. Model 1911 was poorly written by a world class expert. At first for me it was trying to read Greek. And then it started to sink in and I learned to interpret what the author was trying to get across. I think that when you come up with a question that you can't puzzle thru using your references, you could pose your question here in the "Gunsmithing Section" and ask for guidance. There are several really articulate and knowledgeable gunsmiths that are on this forum. What one is not a specialist in, another is. If a machinist technique is not known by one gunsmith, another will know how and can describe to you so that you will know how too. ..

IMHO, for you to solely rely on a canned online gunsmithing course would be trying and less than productive. I think that much time would be wasted chasing a poorly presented method and less than optimum results would occur. No one person intuits or knows all the methods of doing a job. Nor is that person an expert in every firearm that has ever been produced. I know that generalities can be learned from one source. Specifics usually need to be learned from multiple sources.

The above said, brings me to the big bugaboo of gunsmithing; THE TOOLS. At today's prices a person wanting to be a full service gunsmith can easily have to invest upwards to $30 to $40k in tools, supplies and reference material. A full service specialist in say S&W revolvers can hold that down to $10 to $15k. If you limit yourself to just say "action jobs" it is still going to require about $1k in tools and gauges. You have to decide where you want to go and just how far. .......... Keep us informed as to what your choices are.....

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Old 02-26-2017, 03:07 PM
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The first thing I would do is get hands on training as a machinist. Being able to use precision tools, drill and tap precision holes, turn a barrel to cut it back or adjust head-space, and numerous other jobs you would face as a gunsmith. It is the foundation a lot of gunsmiths don't have, that just swap parts. Many local High School and Jr Colleges have evening adult courses.
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Old 02-26-2017, 03:32 PM
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Thanks all for your sincere answers.

I left out an important part or I did a poor job conveying my objective... I'm just doing this for myself, for my own betterment. I'm not looking to do this as a job. My next job will be called retirement.

I suppose high quality informative books would be a good start.

Rather than start a new thread maybe people could suggest some more good books.

Thanks again!
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Old 02-26-2017, 03:43 PM
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If you want to invest some vacation time, the NRA sponsors some good classes at Trinidat State Junior College during the summer. Some of these may interest you. A few are advanced but I believe there is occasionally an armorers class given for revolvers.
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Old 02-26-2017, 03:48 PM
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...real gunsmiths are machinists first...below are photos of the gunsmith shop at Trinidad State Junior College in Trinidad Colorado...one of...if not the best source of gunsmith training in the country...



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Old 02-26-2017, 04:10 PM
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Much like doctors today, it pays to pick a specialty and go from there. A copy of Jerry Kuhnhausen's book on the S&W revolver will help provide a foundation on learning how the revolver works and how to work on it, but it will not make a machinist out of you. He also wrote books on other firearms (unfortunately, he is now deceased) that are also very good to have if for no other reason background knowledge. Midway and Brownell's have them along with some very good video's on performing some of the easier gunsmithing tasks.

Like many things though, the trade doesn't remain stationary as manufacturer's develop new materials and manufacturing processes, and new tools/machinery also becomes available. However the basics remain pretty much the same, and Jerry's books will help tremendously in that regard. The one area I would shy away from are Youtube videos, unless they are done by known people in the trade. I've seen some incredibly dumb people on Youtube.

Don't sell this forum short either. There are some very knowledgeable folks hanging out here, and generally, should someone chime in with dis-information, they are quickly corrected.
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Old 02-26-2017, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Crossfaced View Post
Thanks all for your sincere answers.

I left out an important part or I did a poor job conveying my objective... I'm just doing this for myself, for my own betterment. I'm not looking to do this as a job. My next job will be called retirement.

I suppose high quality informative books would be a good start.

Rather than start a new thread maybe people could suggest some more good books.

Thanks again!
I like your stated approach very much. I will spend a little time going over my reference library and come up with some recommendations. I suggest you haunt ebay and on-line old book stores. Heck, I have even found a usable gunsmithing reference book at Goodwill.

Give us some hint at just what general type of guns in which you are interested and then narrow that down to specifics. There are several of us that have been thru this and can help. Remember, "Everyone has to start a new endeavor, sometime." We were all beginners at one time or another.

Your first effort at finding good reference books might be by calling or emailing the gunsmithing schools at Colorado School of Trades,Denver, CO.; Trinidad State Junior College, Trinidad, CO; Lassen Community College, Susanville, CA, and asking for the list of books their gunsmithing course uses. .......... Pick and choose wisely, some books are 'better' than others. ....
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Old 02-26-2017, 04:47 PM
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I like your stated approach very much. I will spend a little time going over my reference library and come up with some recommendations. I suggest you haunt ebay and on-line old book stores. Heck, I have even found a usable gunsmithing reference book at Goodwill.

Give us some hint at just what general type of guns in which you are interested and then narrow that down to specifics. There are several of us that have been thru this and can help. Remember, "Everyone has to start a new endeavor, sometime." We were all beginners at one time or another.

Your first effort at finding good reference books might be by calling or emailing the gunsmithing schools at Colorado School of Trades,Denver, CO.; Trinidad State Junior College, Trinidad, CO; Lassen Community College, Susanville, CA, and asking for the list of books their gunsmithing course uses. .......... Pick and choose wisely, some books are 'better' than others. ....
Hey thanks....

My interests are semi auto pistols,1911's and revolvers. I also have an interest in race guns.

I'll look into booklist for Gunsmithing programs...that's a great idea.
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Old 02-26-2017, 08:20 PM
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Be careful with you tube video's, not all are good information. I saw one last week that told viewers to use a screwdriver to pry the side plate off a S&W. Today I viewed one that correctly informed me the disassembly instructions for a baby Browning I just bought. There are good ones and bad ones.
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Old 02-26-2017, 09:27 PM
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IMO an online course will attempt to cover most everything, kind of a history of the world type coverage of gunsmithing. Too much to tell and learn and like someone else stated there's a point where you have to go hands on.

The best thing is that you don't have any expectations of this being your full time vocation at least right now and for the moment it's a hobby/interest that you'd like to pursue because of that and you have some time.
With your main interests in handguns, I'd start with a few good books like the Kuhnhausen's books. Technical, but also easy to understand. Written from the bench top attitude of fixing things instead of just telling you what the parts are called.
The 1911 has been gunsmithed to death since forever and there are countless articles and books written on accurizing, rebuilding, and customizing the pistol.
You might get in to some wood work in making grips for handguns and then checkering as you go along,,plenty of stock making books and info around too.
Then on to metal finishing,,bluing, ect,,which would require you to do your own polishing,,
It's easy to see how one interest feeds another.

Don't get all wrapped up into thinking you need to learn it all. Start with something you're comfortable with and already have a knowledge of like the handguns mentioned and dive into that.

Expensive machine tools like a lathe and mill can come later, Some basic precision hand measuring tools are good and build good skills with simple files, punches, stones, screw drivers, hammers, ect.
I've said many times, I have made a living for extended periods by doing nothing more than fixing the battered screw heads on high grade collector guns,,and it's true. But there are several skills needed just in that little specialty of fixing them up,,and I don't weld them up either.

You'll soon see which direction within there you want to go,,rebuilding worn actions,,building target guns, custom and conversions from common base guns, maybe something entirely different will strike you along the way.
But the knowledge you pick up is never lost or a waste.
Best of all, you feel no pressure to produce, no timeline, no competition as you are doing this as a hobby.
Let it go where it takes you.

Just some thoughts,,
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Old 02-27-2017, 09:05 AM
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Thanks again guys. Lots of great suggestions and advice. It's really appreciated.

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Old 02-27-2017, 10:40 AM
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I would recommend American Gunsmithing Institute for the Gunsmithing courses. They teach the method of Design, Function, Repair for analyzing what is wrong and fixing the problem. I would start off with the Practical Gunsmithing Course, Hobby Gunsmithing Course on line, with the tools you would need for most of the jobs included in the course. As you progress in your studies, you can purchase additional tools as you see fit. The second Course I would pursue is the AGI Law Enforcement Armorer's course. The course consists of 15 guns that are in the law enforcement category and civilian firearms. I have learned a great deal of information and repairing my guns or adding on additional accessories that would be unattainable if not for those courses. Also, I am a member of their Gun Club of America with monthly DVD's on disassemble, assembly of old and new guns that are priceless for future repairs you may run across in your repairs. If you know how a gun functions and understand it, you can diagnose the problem. I have been a member for over 10 years and you do not need to have a great deal of machinery. Most of the repairs can be completed with a drill, bench sander, vice, Fordom or Dremmel tool and a drill press from Harbor freight. You can advance your learning with their Professional gunsmithing courses and master gunsmithing courses. I would look into their web site and they will send you samples of what you will need and a couple of lessons to get you started at no cost to you. You can learn on your time and not on a schedule such as classrooms and timed learning material. Their method has been proven and their instructors are fantastic, which I may add are at your disposal for questions and answers as a member GCA. I have formulated springs for tip ups and top breaks which were non existence and or hard to find. I work on my guns a few hours a day and enjoy the workmanship of antiques and modern guns of today. If you need additional info, please feel free to contact me.

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Old 02-27-2017, 03:04 PM
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I would recommend American Gunsmithing Institute for the Gunsmithing courses. They teach the method of Design, Function, Repair for analyzing what is wrong and fixing the problem. I would start off with the Practical Gunsmithing Course, Hobby Gunsmithing Course on line, with the tools you would need for most of the jobs included in the course. As you progress in your studies, you can purchase additional tools as you see fit. The second Course I would pursue is the AGI Law Enforcement Armorer's course. The course consists of 15 guns that are in the law enforcement category and civilian firearms. I have learned a great deal of information and repairing my guns or adding on additional accessories that would be unattainable if not for those courses. Also, I am a member of their Gun Club of America with monthly DVD's on disassemble, assembly of old and new guns that are priceless for future repairs you may run across in your repairs. If you know how a gun functions and understand it, you can diagnose the problem. I have been a member for over 10 years and you do not need to have a great deal of machinery. Most of the repairs can be completed with a drill, bench sander, vice, Fordom or Dremmel tool and a drill press from Harbor freight. You can advance your learning with their Professional gunsmithing courses and master gunsmithing courses. I would look into their web site and they will send you samples of what you will need and a couple of lessons to get you started at no cost to you. You can learn on your time and not on a schedule such as classrooms and timed learning material. Their method has been proven and their instructors are fantastic, which I may add are at your disposal for questions and answers as a member GCA. I have formulated springs for tip ups and top breaks which were non existence and or hard to find. I work on my guns a few hours a day and enjoy the workmanship of antiques and modern guns of today. If you need additional info, please feel free to contact me.

Nick
Great info thank you. I've done a bit of research on AGI and was afraid it was a scam/money grab....its good to hear some 1st hand info.

I'm gonna look into this and GCA. Thanks for offering up your time & effort and allowing me to contact you. You'll probably be hearing from me....I appreciate it!
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Old 02-27-2017, 03:45 PM
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Crossfaced: I have to add that after a little up-to-date google research I too think that AGI just might have something to offer. My reason is that I didn't know Bob Dunlap was associated with them until my web search. I knew Bob way back in the early days of him being at the Lassen School of Gunsmithing. He and my boss in the custom rifle shop I worked at all during college were friends. My boss would send me up to Susanville with a particularly trying job on an exotic firearm for Bob to do his magic on. I got to watch Bob work on several different expensive shotguns and rifles and then take the finished item back to Reno. There are few 'master gunsmiths' any better than Bob Dunlap. Also, he is a superb teacher and writer. ....
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Old 02-28-2017, 08:55 AM
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Yes I saw that Dunlap was involved. So what I did is I bought the S&W M&P and the Glock Armorer DVD's to give them a try. Can't hurt. Bought one used off EBay and the other direct from AGI.

The other thing that I don't know why I didn't think of originally... I live in a Massachusetts, only 45 mins from Smith & Wesson HQ. They have complete armorer courses. I'm going to sign up for there revolver course. Not cheap but I'm surer it's good. I know it's not a full on gunsmithing course but I'm pretty sure it will be a great class.

Also SigArms is only an hour and a half away. They have similar courses.

Massachusetts really blows if your a firearms enthusiast but I guess living so close to 2 of the best firearm manufacturers is a pretty good thing.
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Old 02-28-2017, 11:45 AM
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Yes I saw that Dunlap was involved. So what I did is I bought the S&W M&P and the Glock Armorer DVD's to give them a try. Can't hurt. Bought one used off EBay and the other direct from AGI.

The other thing that I don't know why I didn't think of originally... I live in a Massachusetts, only 45 mins from Smith & Wesson HQ. They have complete armorer courses. I'm going to sign up for there revolver course. Not cheap but I'm surer it's good. I know it's not a full on gunsmithing course but I'm pretty sure it will be a great class.

Also SigArms is only an hour and a half away. They have similar courses.

Massachusetts really blows if your a firearms enthusiast but I guess living so close to 2 of the best firearm manufacturers is a pretty good thing.
Oh Boy! Why didn't I think to suggest taking Armorer's Classes? You are lucky living so close to two great sources. I had to travel across country to take those classes. IMHO, you will enjoy and get more out of the S&W class because you are taught how to correct and rebuild. I have said many times on this forum, "Revolvers are much more complicated than autoloader pistols." It has been many years ago that I took the SIG class and unless they have changed dramatically it is more of a disassembly/reassembly class. But, it is still valuable to take. ....
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Old 02-28-2017, 02:51 PM
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Oh Boy! Why didn't I think to suggest taking Armorer's Classes? You are lucky living so close to two great sources. I had to travel across country to take those classes. IMHO, you will enjoy and get more out of the S&W class because you are taught how to correct and rebuild. I have said many times on this forum, "Revolvers are pmuch more complicated than autoloader pistols." It has been many years ago that I took the SIG class and unless they have changed dramatically it is more of a disassembly/reassembly class. But, it is still valuable to take. ....
Great.....thanks again for your guidance. I appreciate everyone's help!
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Old 02-28-2017, 05:25 PM
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Be careful with you tube video's, not all are good information. I saw one last week that told viewers to use a screwdriver to pry the side plate off a S&W. Today I viewed one that correctly informed me the disassembly instructions for a baby Browning I just bought. There are good ones and bad ones.
I always get a chuckle when I see this old axiom posted that you don't use a screwdriver to remove a sideplate on a revolver. A few years back I was attending a S&W Seminar weekend put on by the company at my local club. It was possible to get one of the two S&W gunsmiths to troubleshoot any pistol or revolver for a $20 donation to the NRA. I was getting light primer hits with a Model 28 I shoot regularly and replacing the mainspring by me didn't fix the problem. KEEP IN MIND that these gunsmiths were S&W employees. I handed one of them my Model 28 told him what the problem was and YEP he pried off the sideplate with a screwdriver. No tap tap tap for these guys. When I questioned this he stated that as long as it was done carefully with no undue force this removal method was not a problem.
So for whatever it's worth the factory gunsmiths routinely do this as I observed them do exactly the same thing with other revolvers that were brought to them.
Jim

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